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ajay0

Well-Known Member
Does the soul have any substance that you can point to and say "There...there it is"? I believe it has no substance that can be observed directly, yet can be recognized only through realization.

Your thoughts?

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As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, the soul is a conscious point of spiritual light, and is essentially pure consciousness.

As the soul is pure consciousness in its essence, it can be realized by anyone through meditation, when the incessant flow of thoughts and emotions, that obscure the Self within, ceases.

The state wherein one realizes that one is a conscious eternal soul inhabiting a temporary body is called soul-consciousness.

To be ignorant of the nature of the eternal soul and to believe that one is just the temporary body is termed as the state of body-consciousness, which is the source of all vices such as greed, hatred, lust, attachment and egoism.

"To reflect on your own eternal identity and your original identity, to know yourself on those terms and to remain in such thoughts about yourself, is said to be thinking of yourself as a spiritual being. This is called the stage of soul consciousness."
~ Sister Mohini Panjabi, Prajapita Brahmakumaris



https://www.brahma-kumaris.com/who-am-i-the-soul

Brahma Kumaris - Soul
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Which part of Adam was the living soul, the physical body or the spirit that God breathed into him or both together?
We all return to dust because the part of us which was made is dust. The part of us which was not made and which came from God is the spirit of life in us. That part does not return to the dust. This is the part that does not die at the death of the body. Matt 10:28
Jesus told the Sadducees (who did not believe in spirit or the resurrection) that they were badly mistaken and that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all alive. (Mark 12:24-27) This shows not only that we have a spirit part but that a resurrection is possible, because if they were not existing then they could not be resurrected at all.
If we are going to be humans on the earth we need a resurrection of our body which has been redeemed by Jesus blood. We are put back together as complete humans with both our life (the spirit part) and our body redeemed.
Romans 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

ALL of Adam was a living soul according to Genesis 2:7
God breathed the ' breath of life ' into all of life-less Adam .
True, the spirit of life (IT) according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 does Not return to dust.
One's spirit of life ( Not a person but a neuter "IT" returns to God )
Returns in the sense of a foreclosed house. That house does Not move or go anywhere, but simply is returned into the hands of the owner.
So, any future chance of life now rests in God's safe hands that on Resurrection Day life's spirit will be returned to us.

Matthew 10:28 says we should be in fear of him who is able to destroy 'both' soul and body in Gehenna.
KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire, and that put the flames in the grave.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed, So, Gehenna is fitting word for destruction.
As in the ' wicked will be destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

The ' first fruits ' of Romans 8:23 I find are the people of 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23.
They are the ones who have that ' first ' or earlier resurrection as per Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
They are like the people of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 who will reign with Christ.
Reign with Christ over Earth to govern over the humble mild meek people who will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
in other words, only some people are called to Heaven, the majority of people can gain ' everlasting life' on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
......................The state wherein one realizes that one is a conscious eternal soul inhabiting a temporary body is called soul-consciousness. To be ignorant of the nature of the eternal soul and to believe that one is just the temporary body is termed as the state of body-consciousness, which is the source of all vices such as greed, hatred, lust, attachment and egoism......................l

I find the Bible man Adam never realized a conscious eternal soul..... rather Adam was a soul as per Genesis 2:7
Adam (formed of clay) became a living soul only after his God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam.
Adam was Not taught ' eternal soul ' but that breaking God's Law would lead to his death. 'Unconscious death' as per Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Adam was Not offered a 'temporary body' but a 'permanent body' that could live forever on Earth if he kept God's Law.
Since I believe what the Bible teaches ^ above ^ , then any future life prospect now lies in God's hands for a future resurrection back to life again.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
I find the Bible man Adam never realized a conscious eternal soul..... rather Adam was a soul as per Genesis 2:7
Adam (formed of clay) became a living soul only after his God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam.
Adam was Not taught ' eternal soul ' but that breaking God's Law would lead to his death. 'Unconscious death' as per Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Adam was Not offered a 'temporary body' but a 'permanent body' that could live forever on Earth if he kept God's Law.
Since I believe what the Bible teaches ^ above ^ , then any future life prospect now lies in God's hands for a future resurrection back to life again.

God in the Prajapita Brahmakumaris states that all scriptures of the past are erroneous and having a mixture of truth and error. This is possibly due to misinterpretations and interpolations.

So do be prudent and exercise your reason in adopting your course of action so as to ensure precise conduct and actions.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
ALL of Adam was a living soul according to Genesis 2:7
God breathed the ' breath of life ' into all of life-less Adam .
True, the spirit of life (IT) according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 does Not return to dust.
One's spirit of life ( Not a person but a neuter "IT" returns to God )
Returns in the sense of a foreclosed house. That house does Not move or go anywhere, but simply is returned into the hands of the owner.
So, any future chance of life now rests in God's safe hands that on Resurrection Day life's spirit will be returned to us.

John 14:16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

If the Holy Spirit lives maybe also our spirit lives. It is the breathe of life after all.

1Cor 2:10 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Does an "it" know anything?

Matthew 10:28 says we should be in fear of him who is able to destroy 'both' soul and body in Gehenna.
KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire, and that put the flames in the grave.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed, So, Gehenna is fitting word for destruction.
As in the ' wicked will be destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

I did not say it cannot be destroyed. It is the existence of the spirit/soul which I am concerned about.
You cannot destroy something that does not exist.
Matt 10:28 also tells us that our soul does not die when our body dies. That sounds as if it exists imo.

The ' first fruits ' of Romans 8:23 I find are the people of 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23.
They are the ones who have that ' first ' or earlier resurrection as per Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
They are like the people of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 who will reign with Christ.
Reign with Christ over Earth to govern over the humble mild meek people who will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
in other words, only some people are called to Heaven, the majority of people can gain ' everlasting life' on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

1Cor 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Why do you think that you do not belong to Christ?
Gal 3:13 Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law.
You are free from the Law so why do you think you have not been bought with His blood?
Why do you think that not all Christians are resurrected first if we all belong to Him?
Why do you think that not all Christians will inherit the earth? After all, New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to earth and God and the Lamb will be there.
Why do you think that Jesus is now purely a spirit when we see that He rose from the dead bodily?
Matt 28:5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay.
I know why you think that Romans 8:23 is about the ones who go to heaven and that is because it cannot be about all Christians because that would make us all children of God and heirs with Jesus.
If Romans 8:23 is about the heavenward bound, why is it that you think that it tells us that their bodies have been redeemed?
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Romans 8:11 seems to be saying the same thing.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
I hope you have the Spirit of God living in you so that you can please God and be part of the first resurrection.
Romans 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God in the Prajapita Brahmakumaris states that all scriptures of the past are erroneous and having a mixture of truth and error. This is possibly due to misinterpretations and interpolations..........................
Thank you for your informative reply.
What I find erroneous is that it is false clergy who mix scriptural truth with error.
They teach as being Scripture what is really Not found in Scripture.
Error now so deeply embedded in people's minds that it is now so difficult to erase, to remove.
So, to me it is Not the scriptures of the past (old Hebrew Scriptures ) but wrong past teachings of false clergymen (the fake 'weed/tares' ) that are wrong.
Even in the 1st century, Jesus pronounce many ' woes ' against such false religious leaders as found in the 23rd chapter of Matthew.
Today they make up a composite ' man of lawlessness ' who seat themselves in the ' temple ' ( meaning houses of worship ) as if they are God.
In reality such false clergy are anti-God.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
John 14:16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
If the Holy Spirit lives maybe also our spirit lives. It is the breathe of life after all.
1Cor 2:10 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Does an "it" know anything?
I did not say it cannot be destroyed. It is the existence of the spirit/soul which I am concerned about.
You cannot destroy something that does not exist.
Matt 10:28 also tells us that our soul does not die when our body dies. That sounds as if it exists imo.
1Cor 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Why do you think that you do not belong to Christ?
Gal 3:13 Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law.
You are free from the Law so why do you think you have not been bought with His blood?
Why do you think that not all Christians are resurrected first if we all belong to Him?
Why do you think that not all Christians will inherit the earth? After all, New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to earth and God and the Lamb will be there.
Why do you think that Jesus is now purely a spirit when we see that He rose from the dead bodily?
Matt 28:5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay.
I know why you think that Romans 8:23 is about the ones who go to heaven and that is because it cannot be about all Christians because that would make us all children of God and heirs with Jesus.
If Romans 8:23 is about the heavenward bound, why is it that you think that it tells us that their bodies have been redeemed?
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Romans 8:11 seems to be saying the same thing.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
I hope you have the Spirit of God living in you so that you can please God and be part of the first resurrection.
Romans 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.

I find the ^ above ^ is speaking or being specifically address to Jesus' brothers ' such as the 'brothers' found at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18.
They are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection as mentioned at Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
None of the people who died before Jesus died (John 3:13) had the opportunity to put faith in Jesus, but they will.
Jesus promised that there would be people who will inherit Earth ( Not inherit Heaven ) - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
People who were already dead before Jesus was dead, and now living people at the soon coming 'time of separation' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37
Please Notice the figurative living ' sheep ' are alive on Earth, and they can remain alive and be here on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth for a thousand years.
During Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
Earthly conditions will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
For God's will (His purpose) to be done on ' Earth' as it is in Heaven....
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I find the ^ above ^ is speaking or being specifically address to Jesus' brothers ' such as the 'brothers' found at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18.
They are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection as mentioned at Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
None of the people who died before Jesus died (John 3:13) had the opportunity to put faith in Jesus, but they will.
Jesus promised that there would be people who will inherit Earth ( Not inherit Heaven ) - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
People who were already dead before Jesus was dead, and now living people at the soon coming 'time of separation' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37
Please Notice the figurative living ' sheep ' are alive on Earth, and they can remain alive and be here on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth for a thousand years.
During Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
Earthly conditions will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
For God's will (His purpose) to be done on ' Earth' as it is in Heaven....

I have found that the promise of the Holy Spirit is for all Christians and so that means that all Christians are children of God and heirs with Christ according to Romans 8, which tells us also that we need the Spirit to please God.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Romans 8:7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

Even those in the Great Crowd end up in the Kingdom just as the OT saints end up there.
Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
To enter the Kingdom we need to be born again and we become born again, born of God in this life when we receive the Holy Spirit.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Wanting to make "kingdom" mean something it does not mean tends to hide the importance of these words.
Claiming that we humans do not have a spirit part of us also clouds the meaning.
We are born again spiritually now, not at the resurrection. Our bodies are redeemed at the resurrection, our spirits now. (Romans 8:23) and it belongs to all Christians.
1John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, ..........
1Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 14:22Judas (not Iscariot) asked Him, “Lord, why are You going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world?” 23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
To deny the plain teaching of the Bible in order to promote interpretations of Revelation, and in so doing to change the Gospel is not good and is condemned by Paul.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I find the promise of Revelation 22:2 is for earth's nations right here on Earth that there will be healing for earth's nations.

No changing of the 'good news' (gospel) of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14 ) but it is being done internationally Just as Jesus said - Acts of the Apostles 1:8

The people alive at the soon coming 'time of separation' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37 are living people on Earth and they can remain alive on Earth to be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God in the Prajapita Brahmakumaris states that all scriptures of the past are erroneous and having a mixture of truth and error. This is possibly due to misinterpretations and interpolations. So do be prudent and exercise your reason in adopting your course of action so as to ensure precise conduct and actions.
Yes, we should ensure precise conduct and actions.
Jesus precisely ensured his teachings by his conduct and actions along with his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.
- www.jw.org
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I find the promise of Revelation 22:2 is for earth's nations right here on Earth that there will be healing for earth's nations.

That looks right imo.

No changing of the 'good news' (gospel) of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14 ) but it is being done internationally Just as Jesus said - Acts of the Apostles 1:8

Christians have been Jesus witnesses to the whole earth for a long time, even if we are not perfect, and who is perfect anyway.
From the days of those Kings God has been setting up His Kingdom from the time of Jesus till now and it will be consummated fully when Jesus returns (Dan 2:44) and it has been breaking up the kingdoms of the earth by having a people who are a royal priesthood and holy nation in amongst all the nations even if we have weeds, which will be separated out when Jesus returns. (1Pet 2:9)
The JWs do preach a different gospel, one that was not preached 2000 years ago. The WT has changed it in many ways. Back then it was one hope, not 2.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.........Christians have been Jesus witnesses to the whole earth for a long time, even if we are not perfect, and who is perfect anyway.
From the days of those Kings God has been setting up His Kingdom from the time of Jesus till now and it will be consummated fully when Jesus returns (Dan 2:44) and it has been breaking up the kingdoms of the earth by having a people who are a royal priesthood and holy nation in amongst all the nations even if we have weeds, which will be separated out when Jesus returns. (1Pet 2:9)
The JWs do preach a different gospel, one that was not preached 2000 years ago. The WT has changed it in many ways. Back then it was one hope, not 2.

Yes, Jesus witnesses just as Jesus said at John 4:23-24.
Jesus witnesses just as Jesus instructed to be at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to declare the good news (gospel) about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
Right, even if we are not perfect, and who is perfect anyway. ( No human perfection right now )
Yes, the figurative ' weed/tares ' will be separated from the genuine ' wheat ' Christians - Matthew 13:29-30
The figurative haughty 'goats' separated from the humble 'sheep' at the soon coming 'time of separation' to take place on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Yes, the royal priest hood, the holy nation (' spiritual' Not fleshly Israel - 1 Peter 2:5,9 ) to be both 'priests' and 'kings' to rule over Earth - Revelation 5:9-10.
They have that first or earlier resurrection as mentioned at Revelation 20:6
They are like the people of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:27.

Yes, 2,000 years ago (before Christ) there was only 'one' hope (John 3:13) the hope of a future physical resurrection - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
With Christ as Messiah was now offering a 'second' or a heavenly hope, a resurrection to heaven for some. For people like those of Revelation 2:10.
Thus, the majority of mankind will have the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
They are the majority or be part of the ' other sheep ' of John 10:16, whereas the ones called to heaven are the ' little flock ' of Luke 12:32.

On the other hand, those of us still alive at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33 the figurative living humble ' sheep ' can remain alive on Earth and continue to live on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000 year governmental reign over Earth when it begins.
They can be part of the ' great crowd ' of Revelation 7:9 who come through the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 26:20; Psalms 27:5
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Does the soul have any substance that you can point to and say "There...there it is"? I believe it has no substance that can be observed directly, yet can be recognized only through realization.

Your thoughts?

View attachment 46612
Photo by Perchek Industrie from Pexels


We are Spiritual beings in our true natures. That is who we really are and not this physical body we are trapped within. The idea of a soul is a creation of those who do not understand.

Can one be seen as a Spiritual being? I think if you look closely especially in the eyes of someone, you can see. It's kind of like the glow of life.

This is different than just a living body. An old friend of mine was brain dead from a stroke. Though the physical body looked alive, there was no glow so to speak. Clearly, he was no longer there.

At a very early age many can tell the difference between their physical bodies and who they really are. This physical world has so much sensory input that it isn't long before one is seduced into thinking this physical world is all there is.

Regardless of being fooled into thinking this physical world is all there is, we are still Spiritual beings. Who we are can be seen.

One can be attracted to another person's physical form, however after a time we quit looking. It's who the person is Spiritually that counts. One can be the physically ugliest person or the physically prettiest person. After a while, it doesn't matter. All our true relationships are Spiritual.

Gifts at Christmas also shows who we are. We get physical gifts all the time. Do they really mean that much? After so many gifts, what physical gift could one really give me that would really matter?? On the other hand, the Spiritual gifts are remembered. They warm who we really are.

Being Spiritual beings, we are all eternal. Though we know our physical bodies will die one day, we still do not think in those terms because that is not who we really are.

We think in eternal terms. That is why when those close to us die or when those relationships that touch us spiritually must end that we hurt so badly. It is against our true natures.

Can our Spiritual selves be seen? I say yes, indeed. It would be so clear if so much of our focus wasn't on this physical world.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
In an experiment reported in 1907, more famous than technically accomplished, medical practitioner Duncan MacDougall of Massachusetts set out to weigh six of his dying patients with the best precision he could just before and just after the moment of [apparent] death. Wikipedia tells us:

One of the patients lost weight but then put the weight back on, and two of the other patients registered a loss of weight at death but a few minutes later lost even more weight. One of the patients lost "three-fourths of an ounce" (21.3 grams) in weight, coinciding with the time of death [whence the movie "21 Grams"]. MacDougall disregarded the results of another patient on the grounds the scales were "not finely adjusted", and discounted the results of another as the patient died while the equipment was still being calibrated.
MacDougall didn't think he'd established that the soul had mass: rather he thought he'd taken steps in that direction but that more work was required.

Nothing further has been accomplished since then. Rather, there is still no satisfactory definition of, or evidence for, a real soul, one having objective existence.

If the soul is not real then the only other thing way for it to exist is as something purely conceptual / imaginary.

Though a soul would be formless, and therefore weightless. Energy rather than mass.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Though a soul would be formless, and therefore weightless. Energy rather than mass.
Energy (E) has mass (m) ─ as Albert remarked, E=mc^2. Or, if you prefer, m=E/C^2.

It might not have a great deal of mass but to say it's real is to say it's material, as MacDougall thought.
 
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