The Commandments

Messianic Israelite · Jan 9, 2021

Is it important to keep Yahweh’s commandments? Through them we can see the character of Yahweh and the character of Yahshua the Messiah since he was an embodiment of the Law and the Word. 1 Peter 2:21 says “21 For to this were you called: because the Messiah also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow his steps:” and yet nominal Chr-stianity wants to take the Messiah and say follow Him but don’t follow the Laws He kept. How is that following His example? It’s almost humorous, and I say almost, that Chr-stianity can still think it is adhering to the Bible message while robbing the Word of possibly it’s most important quality – the Law.

We believe Yahshua the Messiah was an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. He kept the commandments of Yahweh including the 10 commandments, the dietary law, holy days etc. That’s what makes him perfect and holy as per Romans 7:12. Chr-stianity over the years has done so much damage to the Bible by saying it’s all love now – what does that even mean – and that although Yahshua kept all the commandments and is our example, we don’t have to follow His example by keeping the commandments.

In my view Yahweh gave us the 10 commandments to live by. Do you follow them? What is your view of them? And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

Altfish · Jan 9, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
In my view Yahweh gave us the 10 commandments to live by. Do you follow them? What is your view of them? And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

I think most of them are rubbish - many people have written much better commandments.

Where does it say e.g.

Look after children
Look after the planet
Do not keep slaves

Unveiled Artist · Jan 9, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Is it important to keep Yahweh’s commandments? Through them we can see the character of Yahweh and the character of Yahshua the Messiah since he was an embodiment of the Law and the Word. 1 Peter 2:21 says “21 For to this were you called: because the Messiah also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow his steps:” and yet nominal Chr-stianity wants to take the Messiah and say follow Him but don’t follow the Laws He kept. How is that following His example? It’s almost humorous, and I say almost, that Chr-stianity can still think it is adhering to the Bible message while robbing the Word of possibly it’s most important quality – the Law.

We believe Yahshua the Messiah was an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. He kept the commandments of Yahweh including the 10 commandments, the dietary law, holy days etc. That’s what makes him perfect and holy as per Romans 7:12. Chr-stianity over the years has done so much damage to the Bible by saying it’s all love now – what does that even mean – and that although Yahshua kept all the commandments and is our example, we don’t have to follow His example by keeping the commandments.

In my view Yahweh gave us the 10 commandments to live by. Do you follow them? What is your view of them? And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

No. Not as a whole. The commandments are based on gods existence and edict. Thousands of people don't follow scripture.

Unveiled Artist · Jan 9, 2021

Altfish said:
I think most of them are rubbish - many people have written much better commandments.

Where does it say e.g.

Look after children
Look after the planet
Do not keep slaves

I wouldn't say commandments but the Buddha had a heck better commandments than scripture.

9-10ths_Penguin · Jan 9, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Is it important to keep Yahweh’s commandments?

Mostly no.

None of them should be kept merely because they're purported to come from God.

Through them we can see the character of Yahweh and the character of Yahshua the Messiah since he was an embodiment of the Law and the Word.

Indeed. And the fact that the Commandments don't prohibit slavery or rape is a reflection of that (poor) character.

Wandering Monk · Jan 9, 2021

Our morality has evolved beyond the sectarian commandments.

"By the early twentieth century, Christianity's only undisputed role in Western society, its raison d'etre, was to define morality. And this is precisely what it failed to do in the Second World War, in the modern era's most intense moral test. It failed, not only in the sense that many churches and Christians were complicit with Nazism, but in the wider sense that the global crisis revealed that Christianity's moral priorities were wrong. It now seemed plain that cruelty, discrimination, and murder were evil, in a way that fornication, blasphemy, and impiety were not." - Alec Ryrie, Gresham Professor of Divinity.

ChristineM · Jan 9, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Is it important to keep Yahweh’s commandments? Through them we can see the character of Yahweh and the character of Yahshua the Messiah since he was an embodiment of the Law and the Word. 1 Peter 2:21 says “21 For to this were you called: because the Messiah also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow his steps:” and yet nominal Chr-stianity wants to take the Messiah and say follow Him but don’t follow the Laws He kept. How is that following His example? It’s almost humorous, and I say almost, that Chr-stianity can still think it is adhering to the Bible message while robbing the Word of possibly it’s most important quality – the Law.

We believe Yahshua the Messiah was an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. He kept the commandments of Yahweh including the 10 commandments, the dietary law, holy days etc. That’s what makes him perfect and holy as per Romans 7:12. Chr-stianity over the years has done so much damage to the Bible by saying it’s all love now – what does that even mean – and that although Yahshua kept all the commandments and is our example, we don’t have to follow His example by keeping the commandments.

In my view Yahweh gave us the 10 commandments to live by. Do you follow them? What is your view of them? And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

Most people have grown beyond the need to have a god dictate what it right and what is wrong. And when that god does not command against some of the most heinous offences against humanity while insisting one bows down to him in 40% of those commandments i see a problem

metis · Jan 9, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
In my view Yahweh gave us the 10 commandments to live by. Do you follow them? What is your view of them? And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

There are 613 Commandments, and they can be found in Torah. Maybe check out this website: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) Thus, the 10 are just the first 10, thus not stand-alone.

I'll chime in my opinion on Monday as I have to leave shortly, so take care.

stvdv · Jan 9, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Is it important to keep Yahweh’s commandments?

Very important for those who believe it is important for THEM. Those need not think whether or not it is important for others IMO.

1213 · Jan 10, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
...In my view Yahweh gave us the 10 commandments to live by. Do you follow them? What is your view of them? And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

It is sad that many Christians nowadays seem to be hypocrites and this question of Jesus is still relevant:

Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?
Luke 6:46

Jesus said about the Law:

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

I think the law is good and I recommend to live according to it. But, I think the reason should not be that person tries to earn salvation by doing so. I think good reason for it is that person loves God and therefore wants to do so.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

It is interesting how many “Christians” can claim Jesus is the one and only true God, but don’t believe anything he says. I don’t think even the Pharisees about 2000 years ago were that hypocrite. I think it would be good, if Christians would understand this:

Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Luke 12:1

TagliatelliMonster · Jan 10, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Do you follow them?

Nope.

What is your view of them?

Remove the first 4 and replace them with "thou shall not keep slaves" and already you have IMMENSLY improved them.

So what I think of them... is that they read like they were the about the best ideas ignorant bronze age sheep herders who didn't even know the earth orbits the sun, could have while living in very barbaric ancient days where superstition was the common order of the day. In times when gods ruled the tides and the weather.

And what are your thoughts on the other commandments such as the dietary laws and holy days of Leviticus 23?

Generally, they all have the stench of ignorance, superstition and dogmatic black & white thinking.

Messianic Israelite · Jan 16, 2021

Altfish said:
I think most of them are rubbish - many people have written much better commandments.

Where does it say e.g.

Look after children
Look after the planet
Do not keep slaves

Hi Altfish. Good evening. Amusing. The commandments of Yahweh are perfect in every way. You can't add to them, you can't take away for them. Psalm 19:7 says "The law of Yahweh is perfect, restoring the soul: The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making wise the simple." Let's consider what you have said: Look after children.

A good command I would say, yes. But we have a better one. Leviticus 19:18 tells us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. This would include children.
How about looking after the planet? When the Torah was being written, there wasn't pollution as there is today from cars, planes and other machines. But I want to make clear that Adam and Eve were commanded from the beginning to 'keep' the garden (Genesis 2:15) referring to Eden, the place which they resided. In the same way, we should take an active role in keeping the areas in which we live. But in terms of pollution, Yahweh promises to renew the heavens and the earth (Isaiah 65:17) in the Kingdom. It's going to happen just as sure as I'm writing this post to you. Yahweh can remove all the pollution of this world in a blink of an eye. He hasn't because the Kingdom isn't here, people are still sinning against Him.
In terms of slaves, as I have said previously, if slavery was so bad, why would people willingly sell themselves in to slavery. The slavery that the Bible speaks of in the Law was different to the slavery that you probably think of. They were avenged for if killed (Exodus 21:20-21). They were allowed to go free if mistreated (Exodus 21:26-27). They served 6 years and were released in the 7th (Exodus 21:2) etc.

When you practice loving your neighbor, even slaves are treated well. Proverbs 12:10 tells us that the righteous even consider their animals and treat them well. How much more then slaves?

No you can't better the Law of Yahweh. You can always try, but you'll fail. The Law of Yahweh is perfect and Yahshua says "Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48).

Messianic Israelite · Jan 16, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
No. Not as a whole. The commandments are based on gods existence and edict. Thousands of people don't follow scripture.

Hi Unveiled Artist. Good evening. If people don't adhere to rules of living, society degenerates in to a confused and evil place. We're seeing that today, with all the evil that is in the news, it should be clear to any rational person that the Laws of the Bible are necessary and good to maintain the moral fabric of society and to instill peace and righteousness. Take for example what happened in Washington DC. It's not generally told about the hundreds of people who were there but then refused to take part in the riotous actions of those who marched to the US Capitol building, and killed as well as injured various people. But those who did take part in this demonstration were certainly not adhering to scripture.

The Biblical Law says:
"Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to turn aside after a multitude to wrest justice:" (Exodus 23:2)

Can you see that lawlessness, that not knowing the Laws of Yahweh is what is poisoning not just the U.S.A but the rest of the world?

Altfish · Jan 16, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Altfish. Good evening. Amusing. The commandments of Yahweh are perfect in every way. You can't add to them, you can't take away for them. Psalm 19:7 says "The law of Yahweh is perfect, restoring the soul: The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making wise the simple." Let's consider what you have said: Look after children.

A good command I would say, yes. But we have a better one. Leviticus 19:18 tells us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. This would include children.

How about looking after the planet? When the Torah was being written, there wasn't pollution as there is today from cars, planes and other machines. But I want to make clear that Adam and Eve were commanded from the beginning to 'keep' the garden (Genesis 2:15) referring to Eden, the place which they resided. In the same way, we should take an active role in keeping the areas in which we live. But in terms of pollution, Yahweh promises to renew the heavens and the earth (Isaiah 65:17) in the Kingdom. It's going to happen just as sure as I'm writing this post to you. Yahweh can remove all the pollution of this world in a blink of an eye. He hasn't because the Kingdom isn't here, people are still sinning against Him.

In terms of slaves, as I have said previously, if slavery was so bad, why would people willingly sell themselves in to slavery. The slavery that the Bible speaks of in the Law was different to the slavery that you probably think of. They were avenged for if killed (Exodus 21:20-21). They were allowed to go free if mistreated (Exodus 21:26-27). They served 6 years and were released in the 7th (Exodus 21:2) etc.

When you practice loving your neighbor, even slaves are treated well. Proverbs 12:10 tells us that the righteous even consider their animals and treat them well. How much more then slaves?

No you can't better the Law of Yahweh. You can always try, but you'll fail. The Law of Yahweh is perfect and Yahshua says "Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48).

Firstly, Hi Messianic Israelite
Secondly your comment on slavery is abhorrent, think about what you are saying!
Thirdly, quoting The Bible/Torah to a non-believer is like me quoting Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris to you.

Finally, let us look at these 'perfect in every way' commandments....
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet

1, 2, 3, 4 – only a very jealous god would worry about such things? And ... are they really so important

6, 8 – OK, but which society doesn’t have these laws, hardly ground breaking!

5, 7, 9 – sound good, but we either break them or pay lip service to them - religious people too

10 – This is the basis of Western capitalism, consumerism!

Messianic Israelite · Jan 16, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Mostly no.

None of them should be kept merely because they're purported to come from God.

Indeed. And the fact that the Commandments don't prohibit slavery or rape is a reflection of that (poor) character.

Hi 9-10ths_Penguin. Why should you think that way? If a Mighty One, an Almighty Being exists, He would have certainly cared enough about human beings to give them direction. Are you excusing yourself because of the nature of the commandments being from Yahweh, and you don't believe in a Higher Power, or because you do believe in a Creator but don't believe that the commandments are from Him, but from man?

In terms of rape, the Bible is against it. In Deuteronomy 22:25-27, the rapist was to be put to death.

Unveiled Artist · Jan 16, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Unveiled Artist. Good evening. If people don't adhere to rules of living, society degenerates in to a confused and evil place. We're seeing that today, with all the evil that is in the news, it should be clear to any rational person that the Laws of the Bible are necessary and good to maintain the moral fabric of society and to instill peace and righteousness. Take for example what happened in Washington DC. It's not generally told about the hundreds of people who were there but then refused to take part in the riotous actions of those who marched to the US Capitol building, and killed as well as injured various people. But those who did take part in this demonstration were certainly not adhering to scripture.

The Biblical Law says:
"Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to turn aside after a multitude to wrest justice:" (Exodus 23:2)

Can you see that lawlessness, that not knowing the Laws of Yahweh is what is poisoning not just the U.S.A but the rest of the world?

How do you think about those who do not believe in Yahweh and follow their own faith and/or morals for the same goal of preventing evil?

The goal to get rid of evil is fine. Assuming people without god don't have it together is not. How do you compromise that so everyone would be on the same boat without needing to believe in each others source(s) of belief and/or morals?

Messianic Israelite · Jan 16, 2021

Altfish said:
Firstly, Hi Messianic Israelite
Secondly your comment on slavery is abhorrent, think about what you are saying!
Thirdly, quoting The Bible/Torah to a non-believer is like me quoting Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris to you.

Finally, let us look at these 'perfect in every way' commandments....
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet

1, 2, 3, 4 – only a very jealous god would worry about such things? And ... are they really so important

6, 8 – OK, but which society doesn’t have these laws, hardly ground breaking!

5, 7, 9 – sound good, but we either break them or pay lip service to them - religious people too

10 – This is the basis of Western capitalism, consumerism!

Hi Altfish. Thanks for your response. I understand that quoting Bible doesn't necessarily make an impression on an unbeliever, but I would rather try to impart some heavenly wisdom to those I interact with regardless. You could quote from Richard Dawkins, or some other atheist, but such are the words of men. We believe that a Higher Power inspired the Bible to be written and that "Every scripture inspired of Yahweh is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

1,2,3,4. You said only a very jealous Elohim would worry about such things. I wonder, if you had created all these things around you which you see, in 6 literal days, so that even the angels shrieked with joy when they saw the creative power of Yahweh (Job 38:7), wouldn't you be jealous for not only your creation, but when you see people substituting your Name, or making idols and bowing down to them, or not treating Yahweh as Elohim (our strong one). If anything, these commandments prove that we're talking about the true and living King. "He that commandeth the sun, and it riseth not, And sealeth up the stars;8 That alone stretcheth out the heavens, And treadeth upon the waves of the sea; 9 That maketh the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, And the chambers of the south..." (Job 9:7-9)

6, 8. You might say such laws are not groundbreaking, but how many times have the people living in such societies disregarded these moral laws and killed or stealed. You know I wonder. In the Great Depression, they were some thefts as people were starving, but at least back then there was a greater respect for the laws of the Bible. I fear if a Great Depression were to happen again, it would be much worse and it's because these laws aren't revered. Further, such laws imply that we should value life (not murder) and work for our living (not steal).

5, 7, 9 - I don't pay lip service to them. I still try to honor my parents, I don't commit adultery and try to watch what I say. Truth is important because if people were true to themselves, and true to each other, they'd be very few problems. They would seek the help they need.

10 - Well, coveting in the law specifically refers to what other people have. Hebrews 13:5 says "Be ye free from the love of money; content with such things as ye have: for himself hath said, I will in no wise fail thee, neither will I in any wise forsake thee." Being covetous will only take our eyes away from the Word of Yahweh and Yahweh wants us to be saved. We have to keep our eyes on Him and His Kingdom if we want to receive eternal life. Yahweh finds a way to give us everything we need for this life.

Psalm 18:30 says "As for Elohim, his way is perfect: The word of Yahweh is tried; He is a shield unto all them that take refuge in him."

9-10ths_Penguin · Jan 16, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi 9-10ths_Penguin. Why should you think that way? If a Mighty One, an Almighty Being exists, He would have certainly cared enough about human beings to give them direction.

I mean that I'm capable of recognizing that not committing murder is a good idea even if a "Mighty One" doesn't tell me.

Are you so morally deficient that you wouldn't know you should be a good person without believing that God told you to be one?

Are you excusing yourself because of the nature of the commandments being from Yahweh, and you don't believe in a Higher Power, or because you do believe in a Creator but don't believe that the commandments are from Him, but from man?

Your phrasing seems a bit wonky to me. There's no need for me to "excuse myself" from ridiculous claims.

I see no reason to even take the idea of God seriously. That aside, even if I were to assume that God exists, it strikes me as absurd that God would dictate a set of commandments to humans.

In terms of rape, the Bible is against it. In Deuteronomy 22:25-27, the rapist was to be put to death.

Why did you leave out verses 22-23 (which spells out cases where the rape victim should be put to death as well) or 28-29 (where the rape victim is forced to marry her rapist)?

Altfish · Jan 16, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Altfish. Thanks for your response. I understand that quoting Bible doesn't necessarily make an impression on an unbeliever, but I would rather try to impart some heavenly wisdom to those I interact with regardless. You could quote from Richard Dawkins, or some other atheist, but such are the words of men. We believe that a Higher Power inspired the Bible to be written and that "Every scripture inspired of Yahweh is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

1,2,3,4. You said only a very jealous Elohim would worry about such things. I wonder, if you had created all these things around you which you see, in 6 literal days, so that even the angels shrieked with joy when they saw the creative power of Yahweh (Job 38:7), wouldn't you be jealous for not only your creation, but when you see people substituting your Name, or making idols and bowing down to them, or not treating Yahweh as Elohim (our strong one). If anything, these commandments prove that we're talking about the true and living King. "He that commandeth the sun, and it riseth not, And sealeth up the stars;8 That alone stretcheth out the heavens, And treadeth upon the waves of the sea; 9 That maketh the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, And the chambers of the south..." (Job 9:7-9)

6, 8. You might say such laws are not groundbreaking, but how many times have the people living in such societies disregarded these moral laws and killed or stealed. You know I wonder. In the Great Depression, they were some thefts as people were starving, but at least back then there was a greater respect for the laws of the Bible. I fear if a Great Depression were to happen again, it would be much worse and it's because these laws aren't revered. Further, such laws imply that we should value life (not murder) and work for our living (not steal).

5, 7, 9 - I don't pay lip service to them. I still try to honor my parents, I don't commit adultery and try to watch what I say. Truth is important because if people were true to themselves, and true to each other, they'd be very few problems. They would seek the help they need.

10 - Well, coveting in the law specifically refers to what other people have. Hebrews 13:5 says "Be ye free from the love of money; content with such things as ye have: for himself hath said, I will in no wise fail thee, neither will I in any wise forsake thee." Being covetous will only take our eyes away from the Word of Yahweh and Yahweh wants us to be saved. We have to keep our eyes on Him and His Kingdom if we want to receive eternal life. Yahweh finds a way to give us everything we need for this life.

Psalm 18:30 says "As for Elohim, his way is perfect: The word of Yahweh is tried; He is a shield unto all them that take refuge in him."

I think we are on a different planet, Messianic Israelite;

The Golden Rule was pre-Biblical and that is much better than the Commandments
How should a child react to 5. if your parents are abusing you; should you still honour them?

Messianic Israelite · Jan 16, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
How do you think about those who do not believe in Yahweh and follow their own faith and/or morals for the same goal of preventing evil?

The goal to get rid of evil is fine. Assuming people without god don't have it together is not. How do you compromise that so everyone would be on the same boat without needing to believe in each others source(s) of belief and/or morals?

Hi Unveiled Artist. Thank you for your response. Yes, people can devise their own moral system based on their opinions and experiences to prevent evil and promulgate good, but how does one truly know that what they believe is truly good? With close scrutiny many people's moral systems are bound to change depending on the situation. The goal for the true worshipper isn't simply to see to it that good prevails in our own life, but we want to please Yahweh and we believe that the good of keeping the commandments will be rewarded in the Kingdom of Yahweh. We have moral values that are worth living by and dying by, just as Yahshua did.

If one doesn't believe in a Creator, one can still have morals. I agree with that. Paul spoke of this in Romans 2:14. But having some of the truth is not the same as having all of the truth. To answer your question, I don't believe a compromise can be made. If we want to be righteous people, we have to accept the righteousness of the law (Deuteronomy 6:25).

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