I have never asked you to be a clone of me. Diversity is good... iron sharpens iron.
This is your supportive refute to hard evidence?
Should I attribute it to the Spaghetti god?
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Why Trump Appeals to So Many Americans, IMO
- Thread starter joe1776
- Start date
I have never asked you to be a clone of me. Diversity is good... iron sharpens iron.
This is your supportive refute to hard evidence?
Should I attribute it to the Spaghetti god?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
:LOL., and taking over the economy when it was being hit by the worst recession since the depression would have affected any administration too. You are cherry picking. The same rules would apply to Obama so you should not judge him until the end of the depression from the previous administration.
You shot yourself in the foot by your rationalization for ignoring the pandemic. And it is worse than that. Trump is directly to blame for how severe the effects were. There were programs of Obama to help deal with such events that he had largely dismantled. If you want to see countries that were not affected nearly as strongly look at the few that handled this properly from the start. Look at South Korea, New Zealand or eve Australia.
Nope, you do not get to ignore the effects of the virus and hold Obama for accountable for the recession that he inherited and had nothing to do with.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It would make more sense than your arguments. And his name is Quob (may you be Touched by his Noodly Appendages).
PureX
Veteran Member
I don't loathe them, I loathe the ideology they practice and promote. They do a lot of harm to a lot of people and then try to pretend to themselves and others that they're not. But humans are human, and we all fall short of perfection. I do have friends who are capitalists, conservatives, and republicans. And I do understand why they are so cynical and selfish. I also know they aren't going to change, especially if their greed and selfishness has been working out for them. And in America, it usually does.
But that doesn't mean I wish them any harm, or think they deserve to be punished, or suffer in any way for who they are and what they believe. And the same goes for those idiots that attacked the Capital Building last week. Some of them are going to pay a very high price for their stupidity, and their lives and families will be left in ruins. And I find no pleasure in that, at all. Yet what they did is very serious our society cannot allow it to go unpunished.
Just as I fault Trump for poor handling of the plague, I fault
Obama for poor handling of the economy. He had several
policies that impeded recovery. In an area I work...
- Requiring banks to foreclose on troubled loans in
preference for allowing them to continue or being
renegotiated, eg, Citizens NA.
- Prohibiting Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (government
run home lenders) from renegotiating troubled loans.
- For renegotiated loans, forgiven principal & interest
are treated as taxable income, thereby making it tough
for troubled borrowers to qualify for renegotiation.
Obama was a nightmare for the real estate industry.
No help...just clueless mix of inattention & damaging
meddling
I don't hear anything friendly.
Just disdain & desire for punishment.
I've fixed a common saying.
"Hate the sin,
PureX
Veteran Member
And I should care about what you don't hear why, exactly?
I don't know why you'd care.
Could be any number of reasons.
But I know that you do.
You read my posts, & you respond.
Perhaps the kavorka?
Audie
Veteran Member
Why indeed. In fact, why do you even say anything at all?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No one is going to handle all aspects of the economy perfectly It is immensely huge and cumbersome. Also I would like to hear their side for their actions. One can judge overall effectiveness and Obama seemed to do rather well there. One interesting thing about the Obama economy was that as the economy improved the deficit decreased. Excessive deficit spending can make an economy fly temporarily, the trick is to have a good economy and to have the deficit remain low. Guess when deficit spending started to go up? And for no good reason that I could see. Trump may have been driving us back to a recession. It just would not have hit until the end of his second term. Trump planted the seed of the next recession with his tax cuts and spending policies.
Augustus
…
"When I think I'm superior, it's because I genuinely am superior. When they do it, it's just arrogance"
Where do you get the idea that MAGAs view others as inferior in "human worth" rather than for the same reasons you view them as inferior?
An economic recovery that was slow, & directly related
to government policies with that effect is still bad.
Obama gets credit for starting no new wars, but he
also deserves scorn for continuing both wars, &
his administration's near war on troubled borrowers.
You speak of Trump's "tax cuts" but his policy change
also included tax increases, eg, reducing SALT deductions.
What do you think the actual net effect of this change was
in government income tax revenue?
Also, we must divorce the economic effects of the plague.
It's not clear that other politicians would've handled it in
such a manner that would have lower losses.
What if Hillary had pursued a greater shut down of the
economy? Trump's bumbling approach might've actually
been better.
Augustus
…
You were the one who implied that pointing out your cherry-picking was simply partisan bias.
Sorry, I assumed you were aware that the current economy was not exactly booming and could thus work it out for yourself.
If not:
No, you just need to understand that the economy is complex and most of the factors that impact the economy are outwith the President's control.
Do you think T2 Obama was a fiscal genius for greatly outperforming T1 Trump? Or would you say that he benefitted from better circumstances to produce growth?
(also noting that 'growth' is a very problematic concept, see boom/bust, stockmarkets booming when the normal economy is stagnant, etc.)
Thief
Rogue Theologian
joe1776
Well-Known Member
That's a distortion of my statement. If Tom has an IQ of 150 and Jerry has an IQ of 100, that Tom is superior in intelligence is a fact. If Tom acts like his superior IQ renders him superior in human worth, he is arrogant. Is that idea too difficult to understand?
I judge Trump and his followers by their words and deeds. Do they sound and act like they want to take the moral high ground or do they lie, cheat, deceive, carry guns and encourage others to violence. Do the white supremacists think other races are immoral; or do they simply think they're inferior?
Augustus
…
It is a fact he scored higher in an IQ test, not that he is more intelligent.
Judging yourself morally superior based on your own subjective morality is even less meaningful.
As is claiming your 'superiority' is justified, but others doing it means they consider themselves greater in 'human worth', rather than simply having the same conceit you do (i.e. a preference for their own ideology)
The vast majority of Trump voters are not 'white supremacists', so such arguments are disingenuous.
What you have to do is make a case that the average Trump supporter sees themselves as greater in 'human worth' than Dems, whereas the average Dem who mocks and condescends MAGAs is simply a fair minded arbiter of fact.
For example, would you say the reason that Trump increased vote share among every demographic except white males a sign that these demographics became more arrogant and white males became less so? How would you demonstrate this?
joe1776
Well-Known Member
Morality isn't subjective. Conscience (moral intuition) has been moving the human species toward equality for centuries. That's what we progressives favor.
That's an opinion. Do you have an argument to support it?
Disingenuous because including this group makes your position harder to defend?
Nonsense. Most readers will be satisfied that I made my case well enough in the OP.
Is it fair to assume that you don't score well on IQ tests, therefore you doubt their accuracy?
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ecco
Veteran Member
Do you understand what "median" income means?
What is your source for these charts?
To us heathens, there is nothing more subjective in
life than morality. So no one gets to claim The Truth.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
Well, you're wrong and the right position has nothing at all to do with religion. I'd be happy to debate this with you but it would take us way off topic.