F.B.I -- D.O.J: Janurary 12th Joint Press Conference

Subduction Zone · Jan 13, 2021

Sunstone said:
It will. Let's all try to be realists here. Impeachment -- even the mention of it -- is gasoline on the fire. But anyone who believes that warrants doing anything less than impeachment isn't even playing in reality's ballpark. Nor, for that matter, is anyone who believes impeachment, trial, and conviction is enough. I don't know how the rumor got started that you can knock down a fire by staying safely in the fire station and not rolling on it. But I guess that makes sense to some of us. It makes no sense to me. It's a theory or instinct that doesn't seem to be born out by history.

There is no doubt that Trumpism is a severe disease. But it appears that at least parts of the Republican party finally realize this. Impeachment would end it since it is a personality cult. Trump has to lead for it to be effective and there would be no hope of him leading again if convicted.

Sunstone · Jan 13, 2021

tytlyf said:
Gasoline on the fire happened last week. Impeachment is holding people who live without consequence accountable.
No one cares about one's feelings at this point, it's all about holding those accountable.

Good enough short-term thinking. Now what are you going to do to win in the long-term?

tytlyf · Jan 13, 2021

Sunstone said:
Good enough short-term thinking. Now what are you going to do to win in the long-term?

In case you haven't noticed and ignored my predictions for years, there is no more winning for the GOP. The party is dead. It's time to think forward with a new party in the long-term.
What will conservatives do long-term at this point?

Subduction Zone · Jan 13, 2021

Sunstone said:
Good enough short-term thinking. Now what are you going to do to win in the long-term?

The first thing that needs to be done is to eliminate one of the major causes. That is why I am for impeaching Trump. I may never return to the Republicans, but I would like to see them be a force for at least occasional good. Once Trump is no longer an issue then we can begin to work on "healing the rift".

By the way, for all of the naysayers about the impeachment, it is looking worse and worse for Trump. The New York Times now says that there are as many as 20 Republican Senators that are leaning towards conviction. Sorry, had to find another source:

Trump impeachment: Several Republicans to join Democrats in House vote

Ponder This · Jan 13, 2021

Sunstone said:
The F.B.I. -- represented by the chief of the Washington field office -- and the Department of Justice -- represented by the acting U.S. District Attorney for the District of Columbia -- gave a joint press conference on Tuesday that, so far as I know, is the first time such a conference has been given post 1/6.

They provided quite a bit of fresh, new information about what they are doing in response to 1/6, and corrected several popular misconceptions that have been making the rounds. As close to a "must see" as these things get.

This is a good video. And I think it goes a long way towards instilling confidence that those involved will be caught.

Revoltingest · Jan 13, 2021

A Vestigial Mote said:
I have a highly intelligent co-worker who, one day mid-fall, surprisingly started up a political discussion with me. I tend to much straddle the line until I know where my conversation partner stands with respect to politics. Anyway - he was talking about how crazy the protests and riots were during the summer, and this was during the time that Trump was starting to hint about what he would or wouldn't accept given election results. At a certain point he remarked that he thought that if Trump won, there would be likely be more protests and riots from "extreme leftists", but I replied that I thought that it was actually more probable that if Trump lost, there would be some form of violence from the other side. His response was an incredulous and breathy "Really?" I remember having a moment's thought at that time that his opinion must be quite severely influenced by the sway of the media he chooses to listen to. What seemed like an old-hat type of thought to me, based on clear and continual presentation of evidence by Trump himself was received as this improbable, nigh-impossible thing... and yet here we are.

We nearly did have no violence. But the bizarrely
feckless approach to security by Congress, The
Sergeant At Arms, & the Pentagon enabled MAGAs
to explode into the Capitol.

This reminds me of a friend's theory....
Everyone who gets onto the national political stage
must be very very smart. So anything that goes wrong
is intentional. I counter by saying they're just people...
....mere human beings with all the usual failings.
Not all are smart. Not all are thoughtful.
And even smart people make mistakes.
I say the Jan 6 debacle shows vulnerability to incompetence.
Sure, sure, Trump & minions caused it. But they weren't
alone in culpability.

Sunstone · Jan 13, 2021

tytlyf said:
In case you haven't noticed and ignored my predictions for years, there is no more winning for the GOP. The party is dead. It's time to think forward with a new party in the long-term.
What will conservatives do long-term at this point?

Are you dodging? What's your plan for winning in the long run?

Maybe I should back up a bit. Do you feel you understand the situation we are in and at least the primary causes of it?

Sunstone · Jan 13, 2021

A Vestigial Mote said:
I have a highly intelligent co-worker who, one day mid-fall, surprisingly started up a political discussion with me. I tend to much straddle the line until I know where my conversation partner stands with respect to politics. Anyway - he was talking about how crazy the protests and riots were during the summer, and this was during the time that Trump was starting to hint about what he would or wouldn't accept given election results. At a certain point he remarked that he thought that if Trump won, there would be likely be more protests and riots from "extreme leftists", but I replied that I thought that it was actually more probable that if Trump lost, there would be some form of violence from the other side. His response was an incredulous and breathy "Really?" I remember having a moment's thought at that time that his opinion must be quite severely influenced by the sway of the media he chooses to listen to. What seemed like an old-hat type of thought to me, based on clear and continual presentation of evidence by Trump himself was received as this improbable, nigh-impossible thing... and yet here we are.

Exactly.

It concerns me that I see so little realism being brought to bear on how to deal with that.

Not just on this Forum, but in the media.

tytlyf · Jan 13, 2021

Sunstone said:
Are you dodging? What's your plan for winning in the long run?

My point was that it isn't democrats that have a worry about anything long-run. You act like democrats have a problem and civil war going on inside the party.
I pointed out that your direction on this long-term goal was misdirected at a party that didn't have the OBVIOUS problems of republicans.
So, the better question is to ask of conservatives. If you want my answer to your question, it's simple.
Keep pushing middle class policies and put domestic terrorist videos on re-run to make sure the conservative ideology doesn't win anything ever again.

Maybe I should back up a bit. Do you feel you understand the situation we are in and at least the primary causes of it?

I always understand everything and the situation going on. My resources of information are vast and wide and involve more far-right media than anything else.
I understand the psychology behind political movements and the way groups react and think. Most people don't take the time to learn, research and understand that angle which is the bedrock of politics.

Sunstone · Jan 13, 2021

tytlyf said:
You act like...

Don't worry what I "act like". Focus on the problem and figure out a doable long-term solution.

tytlyf · Jan 13, 2021

Sunstone said:
Don't worry what I "act like". Focus on the problem and figure out a doable long-term solution.

As mentioned, I don't see a problem with the democratic party. I DO see massive problems in the Republican party.
Those long-term problems appear to be much more immediate than anything democrats have going on...

If you want me to address a problem in the democratic party, please provide an example. Make sure your example is real.

ecco · Jan 13, 2021

ecco previously...Relatively few Republican politicians will turn against Trump because he still has huge voter support.

Subduction Zone said:
I hope that you are wrong.

The history of the past five years tells me I'm not wrong.

Subduction Zone said:
The best solution for the Republicans would be to find him guilty so that he could be not allowed to run for any position of trust again.

I listened to some of the speeches preceding the House vote.

Jim Jordan had control of the speakers and the allotted times for the Repubs. He did not have anyone speak that is not a hard-core Trump supporter. The Republican Reps who spoke, all whitewashed Trump's actions. They would quote a short passage and say "see, that's not seditious". Apparently, they don't think that Trump inflaming his sheeples for over an hour, by repeatedly lying about election fraud, isn't either.

ecco · Jan 13, 2021

Only ten House Republicans voted to impeach.

Twilight Hue · Jan 13, 2021

tytlyf said:
The GOP and far-right media continue the slogan of "impeachment will further divide the nation."
Well boo-f'n-hoo.
When you got one side calling for unity and the other side calling for war, you lost the argument immediately.
Republicans aren't interested in unity, they hate America and our democracy.

Democrats too.

Twilight Hue · Jan 13, 2021

tytlyf said:
Gasoline on the fire happened last week. Impeachment is holding people who live without consequence accountable.
No one cares about one's feelings at this point, it's all about holding those accountable.

Only the poor unimportant people.

Elites are never accountable.

Twilight Hue · Jan 13, 2021

stvdv said:
The cause of 06th of January is Trump I would say. I am curious if the FBI let him get away with it
IF they send people into jail THEN they should send Trump into jail too
I am really curious IF they will be consistent here

The man says "we charge them as fast as possible"
Did they already put Trump in jail?

Let's face the reality. The odds Trump will be in jail are nil.

tytlyf · Jan 13, 2021

Twilight Hue said:
Democrats too.

What? Saying impeachment will divide the nation? No one gives a damn about their feelings either.
Democrats on the floor (where it matters) impeached the worst president a 2nd time. He should have been impeached more than that too over the last 4 years.

Still doesn't change the fact that 70 million people still voted for an impeached president. So what did they expect?

ecco · Jan 13, 2021

Twilight Hue said:
Elites are never accountable.

Don't you consider Trump to be an elitist?
He certainly isn't a poor, unimportant person.
Do you think he should be held accountable?

Twilight Hue · Jan 13, 2021

tytlyf said:
What? Saying impeachment will divide the nation? No one gives a damn about their feelings either.
Democrats on the floor (where it matters) impeached the worst president a 2nd time. He should have been impeached more than that too over the last 4 years.

Still doesn't change the fact that 70 million people still voted for an impeached president. So what did they expect?

Just that Democrats, like Republicans, have contributed to the division of the nation.

Impeachment is kind of worthless when Trump has less than 2 weeks in office anyways. One would figure they would be focused on something actually productive but thats asking too much.

Twilight Hue · Jan 13, 2021

ecco said:
Don't you consider Trump to be an elitist?
He certainly isn't a poor, unimportant person.
Do you think he should be held accountable?

He should accept accountability, but people like Trump, as with any Elite, are above the law.

I don't like it, but it's the reality here and there's nothing people like you and me can do about it.

F.B.I -- D.O.J: Janurary 12th Joint Press Conference

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De Diablo Del Fora

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Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

Not Religious

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Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.