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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
That might be true that Jesus meant that His kingdom was of this world and it first and foremost is a spiritual kingdom, but Jesus never said He was coming back to earth to build a Kingdom.

You will believe whatever you want to believe in order to maintain your beliefs even when Jesus clearly said that His work was finished here and He was not coming back to this world.

That doesn't mean that Jesus meant he wasn't coming back to earth to build a kingdom, when he said my kingdom is not of this world.

Jesus meant that he would be preaching to the spirits in prison when he said he would be no more. When his work of redemption was finished, he meant dying for our sins.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That doesn't mean that Jesus meant he wasn't coming back to earth to build a kingdom, when he said my kingdom is not of this world.

Jesus meant that he would be preaching to the spirits in prison when he said he would be no more. When his work of redemption was finished, he meant dying for our sins.
Believe whatever you want to believe and keep waiting for Jesus with all the other Christians.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There would be no need for a different Messiah for his second coming. That's like saying the Messiah fulfilled all the prophecies in one coming.
The Messiah did not fulfill all the prophecies at His first coming. That's why there was a second coming.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Why do you reject the belief that the Messiah will fulfill all the prophecies in one future coming?
Because I believe that Baha'u'llah was the Messiah and He has already come.
Whatever prophecies have not yet been fulfilled will be fulfilled during the Messianic Age in which we live.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus never said he was coming back to build a kingdom, so why do you believe that?.

Jesus told Peter in John 21:22

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is thatto thee? follow thou me.

That is relevant to Jesus never saying he wasn't coming back to build a kingdom, when he said his kingdom is not of this world.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Because I believe that Baha'u'llah was the Messiah and He has already come.
Whatever prophecies have not yet been fulfilled will be fulfilled during the Messianic Age in which we live.

That doesn't mean that the Bible supports the Messiah fulfilling all the prophecies in one coming.

Why are we in the Messianic Age if there is no spiritual leader ruling from Jerusalem?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
we can prove that those prophecies have been fulfilled by citing history and geography.

I can prove they are correct
Then why won't you answer this question? Then you say you haven't even read Daniel 8 and don't really care?

Why start the 2300 days from 457BC? The context seems to fit this guy Antiochus putting a stop to the daily sacrifice. We know when that happened. What happened 2300 evening and mornings, or days or years or whatever after that? Anything significant?

I only hate it when I am asked the same questions over and over and over and over again, and I answer them and my answer is never good enough. What I hate is going in circles and ending up nowhere.
No you didn't answer my question. And for a Baha'i to say all prophecies have been fulfilled and then dodge questions about them? That's what's not good enough. But one thing for sure, you are right, you are the wrong one to ask.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That doesn't mean that the Bible supports the Messiah fulfilling all the prophecies in one coming.

Why are we in the Messianic Age if there is no spiritual leader ruling from Jerusalem?
I've asked Baha'is several times about the verse that says there will be wars and rumors of war but that is not yet the end. That seems to imply that if anyone claims to be the Christ and wars are still going on, then that person is not the Christ. And related to that... Are there any verses that have the tribulations continuing after the Christ has returned? Here the Baha'i "Christ" has come, died, and it's been over one hundred years since he's died, and the tribulations continue.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I did not say that He would. I said there would be two comings.

There are no scriptures that say there will be a spiritual leader ruling from Jerusalem during the Messianic Age.

Why would there be a different body of the Messiah for his second coming? The creator of the universe could resurrect his own body.

Messianic Age - Wikipedia

In Abrahamic religions, the Messianic Age is the future period of time on Earth in which the messiah will reign and bring universal peace and brotherhood, without any evil. Many believe that there will be such an age; some refer to it as the consummate "kingdom of God" or the "world to come".

Jesus will rule from Jerusalem because Romans 11:26 says

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I've asked Baha'is several times about the verse that says there will be wars and rumors of war but that is not yet the end. That seems to imply that if anyone claims to be the Christ and wars are still going on, then that person is not the Christ. And related to that... Are there any verses that have the tribulations continuing after the Christ has returned? Here the Baha'i "Christ" has come, died, and it's been over one hundred years since he's died, and the tribulations continue.

That's why I don't believe that Bahullah returned in 1868, even if I give the benefit of the doubt to the Messiah's kingdom wouldn't be established right away when he arrives. Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 19 - King James Version

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20 - King James Version

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Then why won't you answer this question? Then you say you haven't even read Daniel 8 and don't really care?
I thought we both agreed to drop those prophecies.
Let me ask you what difference it would make if I read the chapter. Why would my opinion matter?
I sent you a link to an article written by a Baha'i who is knowledgeable about the Daniel 8 prophecies. Did you ever read it?

https://bahaiteachings.org/new-understanding-perplexing-prophecies-daniel/
No you didn't answer my question. And for a Baha'i to say all prophecies have been fulfilled and then dodge questions about them? That's what's not good enough. But one thing for sure, you are right, you are the wrong one to ask.
I do not dodge questions about any prophecies except Daniel 8. I am not going to do the work that Abdu'l-Baha already did because that is a waste of time, since he was well-versed in the Bible and I am not.

Why not ask one of the other Baha'is who are more familiar with those prophecies in Daniel?

@ adrian009, @ Tony Bristow-Stagg , @ InvestigateTruth , or @ loverofhumanity
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Jesus will rule from Jerusalem because Romans 11:26 says

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
That verse says nothing about Jesus ruling from Jerusalem...
This is what I meant when I said that Christians interpret the scriptures and try to make them mean what they want to believe, rather than what they actually say.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
That verse says nothing about Jesus ruling from Jerusalem...
This is what I meant when I said that Christians interpret the scriptures and try to make them mean what they want to believe, rather than what they actually say.

The book of Zechariah talks about Jesus ruling from Jerusalem, and Jesus was Jewish.

What is the significance of the city of Jerusalem? | GotQuestions.org

What is the significance of the city of Jerusalem?

Question: "What is the significance of the city of Jerusalem?"

Answer:
For millennia, Jerusalem has been an important city, often commanding the attention of much of the world, and the city figures prominently in both biblical history and biblical prophecy. Jerusalem is central to many important events in the Bible.

The city of Jerusalem is situated on the edge of one of the highest tablelands in Israel, south of the center of the country, about thirty-seven miles east of the Mediterranean Sea and about twenty-four miles west of the Jordan River. Its situation, lined on two sides by deep ravines, provides a natural defense for the city. Jerusalem is called by various names in Scripture: “Salem,” “Ariel,” “Jebus,” the “city of God,” the “holy city,” the “city of David,” and “Zion.” Jerusalem itself means “possession of peace.”

Jerusalem in history. The first biblical reference to Jerusalem is found in the story of Abraham’s encounter with Melchizedek, King of Salem (Genesis 14:18–24). The actual name Jerusalem first occurs in Joshua 10:5. Later, David marched on Jerusalem (2 Samuel 5:6–10, c. 1000 BC), and he “captured the fortress of Zion—which is the City of David” from the Jebusites (verse 7). At that time, Jerusalem became the capital of Israel. It was in Jerusalem that Solomon built the temple and his palace (1 Kings 6–7). In 586 BC the Babylonians destroyed the temple and the city and deported the Jews to Babylon (2 Kings 24–25). After the Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem, they rebuilt the temple, completed in 516 BC under Zerubbabel (Ezra 6). Under Nehemiah’s leadership the walls were rebuilt in 444 BC (Nehemiah 6).

During the intertestamental period, the Selucid king Antiochus IV (175–163 BC) desecrated the temple. In 165 Jerusalem was liberated by Judas Maccabeus, and the Jews cleansed and restored the temple. In 65 BC the Romans besieged the city and destroyed the walls. Herod the Great was made “king of the Jews” by Caesar Augustus in 40 BC. Twenty years later Herod began a massive remodeling of the Jewish temple, a project completed in AD 66. That temple was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70, and the Jews dispersed throughout the world.

In the seventh and eighth centuries, Islam came on the scene, and Muslims began building shrines and mosques in Jerusalem to commemorate certain events important in their religion. The Dome of the Rock is the most noteworthy shrine, built directly on the temple mount. Under Arab rule, Jerusalem prospered, and tolerance was at first extended to Christians. However, this tolerance began to wane over time. In the early eleventh century, a ruler of the Fatimid Dynasty ordered the destruction of all churches in Jerusalem. This outraged Christians throughout Europe and led to the First Crusade (1095–1099).

After World War II, on May 14, 1948, Israel once again became an independent state, and President Truman duly recognized Israel’s restored status as a national homeland for the Jewish people. On December 5, 1949, Israel declared Jerusalem to be its “eternal and sacred” capital. Unfortunately, other nations have been slow in facing the reality of Israel’s independence and its right to choose its own capital. In December 2017 the United States officially recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

Jerusalem in prophecy. The Bible predicted that the Jewish people would return to Israel, and Jerusalem figures prominently in prophecies concerning the end times (Joel 3:1; Jeremiah 23:3; 30:7; Ezekiel 11:17; 37:1–14). Someday, the Jewish temple will be rebuilt in the Holy City (Daniel 9:27; 12:11; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4).

In the early part of the tribulation, a combined military force, including Russia, will march against Jerusalem: this battle is outlined in Ezekiel 38–39 in the prophecy of Gog and Magog, and it will end in the destruction of those armies arrayed against Israel. During the tribulation, the two witnesses will be martyred in Jerusalem (Revelation 11). At the end of the tribulation, the nations of the world will mount a final assault on the city in the Battle of Armageddon (Joel 3:9–12; Zechariah 14:1–3; Revelation 16). That battle will be ended by the arrival of Jesus Christ Himself (Revelation 19). “The Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. . . . The Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him” (Zechariah 14:3, 5).

Zechariah 12:2–4 refers to the futility of people attacking Jerusalem: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness.”

During the Millennial Kingdom, the Lord Jesus Christ will reign over the earth from Zion, and the nations will come to Jerusalem for instruction and blessing (Isaiah 2:2–4; 35:10; Psalm 102:20–22; Revelation 20).

Jerusalem in the present. Israel is a sovereign nation, and it has chosen its capital to be Jerusalem. In 1995, the United States Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act, requiring the U.S. embassy to be moved to Jerusalem. However, for over two decades, implementation of that law was delayed by U.S. Presidents. Now the United States has officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a move that accords with thousands of years of history and the wishes of Israel itself.

Jerusalem is held in high regard by all three major world religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Jews consider the Temple Mount to be the holiest place on earth; it is the third holiest Islamic site. Christians value Jerusalem as the site of much of Jesus’ ministry, the place where He was crucified and rose again, and the church’s birthplace (Acts 2). Today the Temple Mount is under the control of the Jerusalem Islamic Waqf, a trust established to manage the Islamic structures in Jerusalem. Under their current rules, access to the holy sites is prohibited to all non-Muslims. The closest the Jews can get to their former temple site is the Western Wall.

Currently, Jerusalem is still experiencing what Jesus called “the times of the Gentiles” in Luke 21:24: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” This period began with the Babylonian Exile (or possibly with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70) and will continue through the tribulation period (Matthew 24; Revelation 11:2). Scripture tells us to “pray for the peace of Jerusalem” (Psalm 122:6).

At His second coming, Jesus will descend to the Mount of Olives, just outside of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4). Jerusalem will be the seat of authority in Jesus’ kingdom, and judgment will be meted out from Zion (Micah 4:7; Isaiah 33:5; Psalm 110). With every passing day, we are closer to the Lord’s fulfillment of His promises concerning Jerusalem and His reign of true justice and peace (Isaiah 9:7). “Even so, come, Lord Jesus” (Revelation 22:20, KJV).
 
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