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Question Gods action

Bree

Active Member
As you say, many judge or get angry at a God if they them self suffer, or see others suffering.

My question is no attack at any person, but a question of why some, not all blame God for the bad in the world, or their own suffering is Gods fault.
Is it?

Maybe it is our one faults we suffering as human beings?
I can not speak of atheists since og they was to blame God, i dont know who they blame, since they dont believe in Gods existance.

There is a good reason why people tend to blame God for their sufferings.
It is an age old question and one that has been talked about for thousands of years. God gave us the answer to this question in the days of Abraham when a faithful God fearing man named Job from the city of UZ, which is now Arabia, was put to the ultimate test. He suffered greatly at the hands of an evil spirit who tried to provoke him to curse God. That evil spirit was Satan and he argued with Jehovah God over the mans 'motives' for his faithfulness.

Satan argued that Job was only faithful because God had blessed him with wealth, health and happiness. Its true that God had blessed him, but Satan wanted to prove that Job was only faithful because of the blessings. So God allowed Satan to try and prove his claim.

The account is found in the book of Job in the bible. I think its the only hebrew scripture that identifies the cause of mankinds sufferings. It is one of the most important books of the bible and thru it God has spoken to us and assured us that he will NEVER cause us to suffer. He will NEVER bring upon us punishment and pain. Wickedness is something God CANNOT DO and he wants us to know that.

Read the book of Job and you will understand why people blame God.

Job 1: 6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God*+ entered to take their station before Jehovah,+ and Satan+ also entered among them.+
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where have you come from?” Satan answered Jehovah: “From roving about on the earth and from walking about in it.”+ 8 And Jehovah said to Satan: “Have you taken note of* my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth. He is an upright man of integrity,*+ fearing God and shunning what is bad.” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God?+ 10 Have you not put up a protective hedge around him+ and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands,+ and his livestock has spread out in the land. 11 But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” 12 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand.* Only do not lay your hand on the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence* of Jehovah

The rest of the account tells the story of how Satan brought upon Job great suffering, and how he sent people to tell him God was causing his suffering. When Job began to believe those lies, God stepped in and spoke to Job and assured him that he was not bringing suffering upon him.

Satan the Devil still tries to convince us that it is God who causes the suffering we see. His tactics have not changed to this day. But for those who have read and understood the book of Job, they know that God does not cause suffering. They know the true cause of suffering in the world....and they know it is God who will bring it to an end.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?

See brother, throughout the history of 14 centuries after the prophet Muhammed, at least since around 150-200 years after the prophet, the usage of Aqal or "reason" was prevalent in many schools of thought beginning from the old school of Medina, the Maliki tradition.

This is the rational mind questioning the Islamic theology and the nature of God. Questioning does not mean judging.

Lets say I read a passage somewhere that has something irrational about God, like a passage that says "God ordered all the animals in a village to be killed" or "babies to be killed specifically" I would question it for sure. I say "IF".

Also, in the study of Islamic theodicy, even someone like Ibn Taimiyya would question it. Only if you question God's motives will you be able to study it. If you study it without question, that's blind belief, and Islamic tradition from the earliest schools of thought does not teach that kind of blind belief.

I dont know whether you come from a Thakleedh school of thought but that is a little new, and not really the true tradition dating back to the earliest times.

I hope you understand.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
See brother, throughout the history of 14 centuries after the prophet Muhammed, at least since around 150-200 years after the prophet, the usage of Aqal or "reason" was prevalent in many schools of thought beginning from the old school of Medina, the Maliki tradition.

This is the rational mind questioning the Islamic theology and the nature of God. Questioning does not mean judging.

Lets say I read a passage somewhere that has something irrational about God, like a passage that says "God ordered all the animals in a village to be killed" or "babies to be killed specifically" I would question it for sure. I say "IF".

Also, in the study of Islamic theodicy, even someone like Ibn Taimiyya would question it. Only if you question God's motives will you be able to study it. If you study it without question, that's blind belief, and Islamic tradition from the earliest schools of thought does not teach that kind of blind belief.

I dont know whether you come from a Thakleedh school of thought but that is a little new, and not really the true tradition dating back to the earliest times.

I hope you understand.
The Nakshibendi Tarikat is the order i belong to under sufi Sheykh Lokman Efendi
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Thats interesting. I am not very much aware of the theology.

Whats the primary teaching in this context brother? Is it Thaqleed or Aqal based?
As you know, my arabic language knowledge is limited, but if you mean the teacher only take one student at the time, it is not so :)

The teaching is about getting as close as possible to live like prophet Muhammed, so sunnah, quran and hadith is important to know and understand, and of course i lack a lot here yet. My understanding is at the moment very limited.
nakshibendi tarika is more Sunni related than shia, but as a sufi we only say muslim, not Sunni or shia.

I add some from the website of nakshbendi tarika

The Nakshibendi Tarikat is the Most Distinguished of the Sufi Paths to Allah. This distinction comes from its nisbat (spiritual lineage) coming through the Closest Friend of Prophet Muhammad (AS), Hazrat Abu Bakr el-Siddiq. The Nakshibendi Way has been passed through the Masters known as the Khwajagan through the centuries. In this last era, the Secret of the Nakshibendi Way was entrusted to Sultan el-Evliya Sheykh Mevlana Muhammad Nazil Adil el-Hakkani el-Kibrisi.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
As you know, my arabic language knowledge is limited, but if you mean the teacher only take one student at the time, it is not so :)

Oh no bro. What I meant is Thakleed means to follow without question. Its the concept of some of the schools of thought.

Aqal is to use your reason as well. Which is part of the oldest school of thought, the school of Medina, the school of Imam Malik ibn Anas, and of course many many early thoughts.

The teaching is about getting as close as possible to live like prophet Muhammed, so sunnah, quran and hadith is important to know and understand, and of course i lack a lot here yet. My understanding is at the moment very limited.
nakshibendi tarika is more Sunni related than shia, but as a sufi we only say muslim, not Sunni or shia.

I add some from the website of nakshbendi tarika

The Nakshibendi Tarikat is the Most Distinguished of the Sufi Paths to Allah. This distinction comes from its nisbat (spiritual lineage) coming through the Closest Friend of Prophet Muhammad (AS), Hazrat Abu Bakr el-Siddiq. The Nakshibendi Way has been passed through the Masters known as the Khwajagan through the centuries. In this last era, the Secret of the Nakshibendi Way was entrusted to Sultan el-Evliya Sheykh Mevlana Muhammad Nazil Adil el-Hakkani el-Kibrisi.

Bro. I understand the Nakshibandi Tariqa and the tracing of lineage back to the prophet and Abu Bakr, I just dont understand or actually am not knowledgeable in your particular line because I know that your theology requires you to have one Imam so I presume the name you mentioned belongs to him.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Oh no bro. What I meant is Thakleed means to follow without question. Its the concept of some of the schools of thought.

Aqal is to use your reason as well. Which is part of the oldest school of thought, the school of Medina, the school of Imam Malik ibn Anas, and of course many many early thoughts.



Bro. I understand the Nakshibandi Tariqa and the tracing of lineage back to the prophet and Abu Bakr, I just dont understand or actually am not knowledgeable in your particular line because I know that your theology requires you to have one Imam so I presume the name you mentioned belongs to him.
Thank you for clerifying your first question:)
I am allowed to ask questions to my teacher yes :) and when he reply, i can ask additional questions, but it's a lot of my own study the Quran, Sunnah, hadith, but of course my teacher holds teachings of all of this too.
When Corona virus situation is gone or less than now, i will travel to my teacher and stay with him for some time :)
 

capumetu

Active Member
This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?


I personally worship the God Jehovah, and am one of His witnesses sir, but no matter which God a person chooses to worship, there is a basic truth. Either their God is righteous or not. Many people believe God is a torturous sadistic dictator, others feel He is a God of Love.

Right now it is difficult to see how loving He is because He is doing little interaction with humans as per their request I might add. Soon however, drastic changes will be made. When we humans nearly extinct ourselves Jehovah promises to send His forces to remove the wicked, and usher in His Kingdom. At that time all will be able to observe the true nature of God, without interference from those who have chosen not to stand on His side of the issue.
 
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