You have it all wrong, oldbadger. I would not invite you and then want you to go away.... Wait. Is this DeJa Vu, or did this happen before.
Anyway, you have the platform. Remember, I told you the floor is yours.
Enjoy... and take care.
Moving forward.....................
Let's look at Mark's mentions of John, from beginning up until the last week of the mission.
John Bar Zebedee
The description of John that is held by Church Traditions cannot help me in any researches in to the real person. I only have to look at a painting like that of Reubens and as I see a wealthy privileged very healthy and very European John looking back I can feel sure that such Traditions as are held about him cannot help me much. The Russian Orthodox John shown in the Wiki article about him does give me more hope for accuracy as I see a tall, slightly stooped, elderly, greying man with very dark skin. OK, so some anecdotes about John couild be possible but I won't be cradling any reports such as he was in the Patmos Bowls League to my breast.
So let's look at every report about John BarZebedee from the Statements of the disciples. If any students and scholars can add to this from the Statementsd of Magdalene, Thomas or any others then that would be valuable indeed. If any would focus upon his letters then 'fine', but I notice that two of these are doubted.
John in G-Mark:-
Mark 1:19} And when he had gone a little farther thence, he saw James the [son] of
Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were in the ship mending their nets. {1:20} And straightway he called them: and they left their father Zebedee in the ship with the hired servants, and went after him.
So John could clean and mend nets, that is very skilled work. These nets were made of flax fibres turned in to line, and netters needed tools to do this work. the nets may have been either heavier 'drag' nets or lighter 'gill nets' but to mend either type some form of net needle is required to hold the spare line and to be able to thread it continuously through the netting as it is knotted together. I have never found a picture of an early first century Galilean net needle, but I don't expect that they have altered much in thousands of years.
You will be wondering why I focus so much on net mending? Well, netters needed to acquire net needles and although some may have made their own a skilled tecton who worked in bone, wood or stone might have made a much better job of them. Jesus was a tecton.
Their Father Zebedee had a fishing boat, a ship, and he hired a crew. So John's Dad, who worked in a very very challenging occupation which was taxed in several different ways (if you want to see more just ask) and overseered by some very corrupt rogues was surviving, and, better than that he had a boat large enough to require a paid crew! Zebedee was one very hard bloke for sure.
And John, with his brother James, was clearly a much loved and spoiled young man. Yes, he must have worked long and hard to be able to mend nets (which is harder than making new ones) but was privileged enough to be able to come and go as he pleased.
Mark {1:29} And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. {1:30} But Simon’s wife’s mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
John has obviously been allowed to leave all his work to go with Jesus, and has already seen Jesus caste a spirit out of a man in the local synagogue.
Mark {3:17} And James the [son] of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:
Years ago I married the above statement to reports that Jesus often boarded a boat and stood offshore so that he could address massive collections of people. Back then an RF HJ scholar insisted that 'boat speeches' were rubbish because very few people would be able hear a man in a boat speaking! I already knew better than him about that because on a quiet still morning I had stood on a foreshore listening to two wildfowlers talking about another fowler. They were over half a mile away out in the estuary.
Boatmen may have valued people who could call loudly and clearly across water to shore or to other craft, and maybe Jesus spoke his messages to the Zebedee brothers who then called them out far and wide? 'Sons of Thunder'?
Or maybe the RF Alaskan member's point that these young men and ALL the disciples were hardened tough scrappers, and in fact the nickname was 'Sons of Violence'.
Mark {5:37} And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.
This could show that Jesus trusted these three. We know that Peter was tough, and reports that he kept the Zebedee brothers close as well could suggest that they were equally as tough as Peter. Maybe?
Mark {9:2} And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
And again....... Jesus picked the same three. Did they go up in the Mountain with Jesus for a holy reason, or were they security? In any event I don't see any of these nor the other disciples as meek and mild followers. They were all hardened toughies!
Mark {9:38} And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
Pushy, or what? Mark portrays John as a person who will challenge, butt in and dictate to others. I don't see John as a meek quiet spiritual type, rather a toughened youth who can hold his own in a World of extremely hard Galilean boat people and the officers who tried to control and tax them. 'Sons of violence' begins to close on 'Sons of Thunder'.
Mark {10:35} And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. {10:36} And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? {10:37} They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
I cannot help thinking that the Zebedee brothers wanted to know what they would be getting out of the movement. Clearly John was a forward, pushing 'What do I get?' kind of person, and I look forward to reading about his Mother Salome pushing hard for him as well. John was used to getting his way, both with his father, his mother and in his own endeavours. No meek and mild heart, this one, I think.
Mark {10:41} And when the ten heard [it,] they began to be much displeased with James and John.
......... and clearly, John didn't mind upsetting the other disciples with his demands.
And now we enter (Mark's account of) that last week........... next post.