• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
Why wouldn't it be appropriate for God? God appeared to Abraham as a man in Genesis 18:1-2.
Click to expand...
This is generally interpreted as a vision, in line with Shemot/Exodus 33,

Then Moses said, “Please show me Your glory.” “I will cause all My goodness to pass before you,” the LORD replied, “and I will proclaim My name—the LORD—in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” But He added, “You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live.”
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Left Coast said:
You're trying to have it both ways. Was the virgin birth usual or unusual?

Jesus appearing spontaneously wouldn't prevent him from interacting with people or living among people.
Click to expand...

It was not unusual, because God can do miracles. God parted the red sea.

Jesus being born into a family of people and not being a nomad gave him the opportunity to teach us how to live. That was one of his functions as the Messiah.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
This is generally interpreted as a vision, in line with Shemot/Exodus 33,

Then Moses said, “Please show me Your glory.” “I will cause all My goodness to pass before you,” the LORD replied, “and I will proclaim My name—the LORD—in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” But He added, “You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live.”
Click to expand...

What in the context of that verse supports it? The word vision or words hinting at it are not mentioned in the text. The verse in Zechariah 12:10 when they look at me, on him who they have pierced, hints that God is the one who they pierced. There is nothing similar in Genesis 18:1-2 hinting that God gave Abraham a vision.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
and not being a nomad
Click to expand...
Wait what?

Luke 9:

As they were going along the road, someone said to Him, “I will follow You wherever You go.” And Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay His head.” And He said to another, “Follow Me.” But he said, “Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father.” But He said to him, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.” Another also said, “I will follow You, Lord; but first permit me to say good-bye to those at home.” But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
Wait what?

Luke 9:

As they were going along the road, someone said to Him, “I will follow You wherever You go.” And Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay His head.” And He said to another, “Follow Me.” But he said, “Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father.” But He said to him, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.” Another also said, “I will follow You, Lord; but first permit me to say good-bye to those at home.” But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Click to expand...

Jesus established a friendship with the apostles before he left his home. He was a member of the town of Nazareth, with clear origins, not someone who appeared out of nowhere.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
What in the context of that verse supports it? The word vision or words hinting at it are not mentioned in the text. The verse in Zechariah 12:10 when they look at me, on him who they have pierced, hints that God is the one who they pierced. There is nothing similar in Genesis 18:1-2 hinting that God gave Abraham a vision.
Click to expand...
Then I guess Abraham died and came back to life, since no man can see G-d and live...
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
Then I guess Abraham died and came back to life, since no man can see G-d and live...
Click to expand...

People saw Jesus and Jesus was God. Jesus meant that nobody can see the Father. John 6:46. "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." Abraham saw Jesus, not God the Father.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
People saw Jesus and Jesus was God. Jesus meant that nobody can see the Father. John 6:46. "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." Abraham saw Jesus, not God the Father.
Click to expand...
The Christian Scriptures aren't relevant to me.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
How could the person who had such an impact on 2000 years of history have never existed? The sayings of Jesus have the ring of truth to most people. The birth of Jesus is why history is BC and AD.
Click to expand...
how could a person about whom stories are told have such an impact and yet not exist?
by this logic, Paul Bunyan existed, Harry Potter existed and, of course, the Prodigal Son. Characters from stories must be real if they tap into universal themes.

The sayings of jesus include a bunch that have precedent in other texts. Plagiarism of things that have universal appeal.

There is a "BC" and an "AD" because a monk created the calendar that some peole use in 525 CE and imposed church ideas on it's construction. The church was powerful and it then imposed this calendar on the world. Plenty of people use it as a cultural convenience, not because it has any religious significance. Keeping Time: The Origin of B.C. & A.D. | Live Science
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
Without seeing the fullness of His glory, Moses saw God at the burning bush.
Click to expand...
It says this:

An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
It says this:

An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed.
Click to expand...

Jesus was the angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is not an angel-he was God. Jesus Christ – Son of God or God the Son?

Jesus the Son is the One who perfectly reveals God

As the Divine Son Christ fully comprehends the nature of God and is therefore capable of perfectly revealing God to man:

"At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, ‘I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.’" Luke 10:21-22

The Lord Jesus claims an intimate, reciprocal knowledge of God the Father which presupposes both his incomprehensibility and his omniscience. After all, a finite creature is not able to know God in the same way that s/he is known by God; nor can a temporal being make the assertion s/he can only be known by God since this implies that the person making this claim is incomprehensible, and thereby requires an infinite mind or omniscient entity to fully know and understand such an individual. Yet this is precisely what Jesus says about his own Person and knowledge of the incomprehensible God.

It should therefore not surprise us that it is precisely in this context that Jesus claims to be the One who chooses to reveal the Father to whomever he is pleased. Seeing that the Lord Jesus has perfect and intimate knowledge of God he alone can adequately and completely reveal God’s essence/character/nature to mankind. As Christ says in the Gospel of John:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." John 6:44-46

The reason why the Father brings everyone to learn from the Son is because he alone has beheld or comprehended God and therefore fully qualified to make the Father known.

To put this in simpler terms, God has clearly and fully made himself known in and through the Person of his beloved Son since the Son has complete knowledge and comprehension of the nature and Person of the Father.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top