stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I am glad I know that magic and miracles exist
"awe and wonder" is what makes life "alive"
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Did Jesus Christ actually die?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
"awe and wonder" is what makes life "alive"
If that was true, he would eventually have died of old age like all humans. After the bible accounts of Jesus being killed and resurrected to heaven, he disappears from the face of the earth. Since he was still young and had more followers than most people on Instagram, where would he have gone to hide? And why would he want to? He could have just kept teaching and preaching.
I get it that believing people can be raised back from death is hard to wrap your head around, but if you believe in an all powerful God, you can also believe God has the power to perform a resurrection.
True.
firedragon
Veteran Member
That would depend on the inerrancy of the Gospel accounts of the crucifixion and the whole episode.
The ^ above ^ seems to indicate that Jesus rose himself from being dead.
Scripture teaches a dead person can Not raise himself from the dead.
The day Jesus died he went to the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Please notice who resurrected dead Jesus:
Acts of the Apostles 2:24; Acts of the Apostles 2:32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 5:30
Colossians 2:12; Galatians 1:1; Romans 10:9
So, the Bible teaches that it was God who resurrected dead Jesus.
Since sinless Jesus never sinned, then Jesus would never have died because ' death ' is the price tag that 'sin' pays - Romans 6:23,7
Adam's deliberate ' sin ' is what caused Adam's death. If Adam had never sinned then Adam would be alive on Earth today.
Unlike 'sinner Adam', the only way 'sinless Jesus' could die was if he was deliberately put to death.
Sinless Jesus balanced the Scales of Justice for us by standing in place of Adam for us - Romans 5:17-19
Jesus sacrificed his perfect sinless life for us. Jesus' sinless life was a ransom price paid for us - Matthew 20:28; Romans 5:6-8
Riders
Well-Known Member
If he went through what the new testament said he did he could not come back. The soldier stabbed his side with a sword till he bled out.
Personally I do not believe there is proof Jesus even existed. However there was a Messiah movement of men who got put to death on the cross who died for their society.
I think Jesus was a member of this group and was put to death but was not raised from the dead. But thats just my opinion I have no proof and there is no proof he even existed.
But that being said if you go by the new testament theres no way a person could come back from that.
The point of the story is lost if Jesus doesn't die ─ that point being his miraculous resurrection.
So ─ given there was in fact an historical Jesus, and that the usually efficient Romans crucified him ─ the strong likelihood is that he died ie suffered the irreversible failure of his body's life systems.
The problem then becomes to explain the resurrection stories. The stories themselves go a long way to solving that problem. None of them is by an eyewitness, none is contemporary, all are asserted by believers. Most telling of all, there are six accounts of the resurrection in the NT ─ Paul, the four gospels, and Acts 1 ─ and each of the six contradicts the others in major ways.
It has been a Christian custom to "reconcile" the accounts by selecting the details from each account that seem most likely to the selector. Unfortunately, this can only result in a seventh account that likewise disagrees with all the others in major ways.
So ─ given an historical Jesus who was crucified ─ far the strongest possibility is that he died and that the resurrection stories are unhistorical but reflect the aspirational tales of his followers.
A very distant second is that he didn't die, but left the religion industry and had a quiet life elsewhere ─ Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The da Vinci Code territory. It's highly improbable but not utterly impossible, and by a vastly greater margin it's hugely more probable than an authentic resurrection after an authentic death.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Hello Thomas....
But I think not.
Nobody is sure of any final on this, and that includes amongst Christians surely?
Do you have a faith or a certainty?
In fact we can not be sure whether it was Jesus who was crucified because the Bible tells us that. Jesus Son of the father who was involved in an incident and convicted was so loved by all the people that Prefect Pilate felt impelled to pardon him. It's all there save his his first name which was removed after the earliest gospels.
There is no finality about anything.
And who studied that? So many who have studied historic Jesus have left the faith, such as Geza Vermes
, Translator of the Dead Sea scrolls amongst other things.
. .... and all you have is faith......
Who can back up what happened to Jesus after Magdalene left the tomb?
The people of Cornwall (one example in several) have a tradition that Joseph took Jesus there. Sidon and Tyre felt with Cornwall for tin for millennia. Who knows?
lukethethird
unknown member
Not only did Jesus die and rise again, according to Acts of the Apostles, he bodily rose up into the heavens. You decide.
At John 2:21 Jesus was using figurative (Not literal) speech in comparing his coming death and resurrection to the demolition and reconstruction of a building.
Jesus was resurrected by his Father ( Life Giver) back to his pre-human spirit body, a body Not made with hands like the Temple was but a spirit body made ( built, so to speak ) by his God, His Father, His Creator.
Jesus' death was Not due to any wrongdoing but the accepting of doing his Father's will for him.- Hebrews 10:7
In other words, Jesus willingly surrendered his life in order to receive his life back again - John 10:17-18
Jesus would get his life back again because his Father would resurrect him - Acts of the Apostles 3:15.
Jesus, Not God, tasted death for everyone - Hebrews 2:9
Resurrected by his God so as to sit down at the right hand of the throne of God - Hebrews 12:2
Luke 24:39 is following after Jesus was resurrected. Not in a physical body but a spirit body.
Remember: after his resurrection Jesus used different materialized bodies to appear to his followers, after all we can't see spirit bodies.
Using different post-resurrection materialized bodies would strengthen their resurrection belief.
The followers were in a closed room both at the time of John 20:17-19 and later at John 20:26.
A physical body would Not appear as Jesus appeared to them, but used a materialized body.
Jesus was resurrected by his Father ( Life Giver) back to his pre-human spirit body, a body Not made with hands like the Temple was but a spirit body made ( built, so to speak ) by his God, His Father, His Creator.
Jesus' death was Not due to any wrongdoing but the accepting of doing his Father's will for him.- Hebrews 10:7
In other words, Jesus willingly surrendered his life in order to receive his life back again - John 10:17-18
Jesus would get his life back again because his Father would resurrect him - Acts of the Apostles 3:15.
Jesus, Not God, tasted death for everyone - Hebrews 2:9
Resurrected by his God so as to sit down at the right hand of the throne of God - Hebrews 12:2
Luke 24:39 is following after Jesus was resurrected. Not in a physical body but a spirit body.
Remember: after his resurrection Jesus used different materialized bodies to appear to his followers, after all we can't see spirit bodies.
Using different post-resurrection materialized bodies would strengthen their resurrection belief.
The followers were in a closed room both at the time of John 20:17-19 and later at John 20:26.
A physical body would Not appear as Jesus appeared to them, but used a materialized body.
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rational experiences
Veteran Member
All stories are told first, by humans. A male human or a female human thinking.
God O is the earth stone, owning its owned heavens, that a psyche says, we do not own God does.
So we state no MAN is God. Why we gave title huMAN....man and woMAN.
Self teaching advice for self human.
So first of all anyone would say highest life for self, a human is the healthiest most perfect life.
You claim perfection for a human is beauty to look at.
You claim perfection for a human is to age less.
You claim perfection for a human, highest health.
Then you own a human discussion about the life body being sacrificed. Its attack, its changes.
Then you own a human discussion relative to why it was sacrificed and attacked in the same story.
Yet the 2 forms of information do not belong together they are separate.
God O body earth and gas/heavenly changes.
Human being a human being life attacked by those conditions who died sacrificed, gained DNA exodus mutations/suffering, survived, yet part of the human family gone forever.....destroyed. Human aware teaching.
And then state, and cloud amassing a higher volume of mass...seeing clouds and rain already existed, cooled the burning gases above my head that irradiated life, from a ground God heart core release. A science teaching of relativity.
Now if you said, in my life I see visions and phenomena. For when I got gas burnt irradiated my head prickled with an intense burning. So as a non believer in God and Jesus, seeing I did not like the Catholic teachings, I said, must be what my brother endured. As rational spiritual advice.
Then out of the ground black flashing cutting striking and whipping effects on my legs. Very painful. At the same time, I would see flashes of bright lights and also silver in the atmosphere. See the burning wisping effect. When it cooled I could see small male images of past lives, from clothing they wore. Male images from singing celebrities in the images and alien imagery. That disappeared.
But as it cooled it moved above the ground as a spirit body. So said, yes phenomena by science irradiation effect, real.
From that effect I concluded logical human assessments.
So I researched the hebrew information that depicted symbols in black of axes/knives/swords in signals inferred to Christ and life sacrifice. So said to self, my brother knew more information about science causes than what I did. Now it made sense as to why they gave black strange symbolism an idea of body attack.
Proving that science knew what it had caused in the past.
And it was Hebrew life/DNA sacrificed Holy land advice that wrote that documentation.
And they also own a threat in the bible as science that everyone would bow down to that condition eventually. And if you cannot walk, like I nearly could not...I had to shuffle around from feet and leg swellings, then obviously it is also medical advice/warnings. If you cared to reason logic.
The temple in Jeru salem is where the circuit turned for the use of that technology, why the Temple and land placement was fought over...rationally. Why the building was destroyed multi times...rationally.
DNA exodus mutation quotes life died sacrificed but arose from the dead...because the humans still living owned the sacrifice and realisation and did not die.
When it occurred to my life body I thought I had died and believed I was dead. Only due to the fact that a lot of other brothers and sisters died in the same irradiation effect from early age death. What I learnt as a personal experience.
We are conscious, self aware, psychic, spiritual and own conditions of teaching that quoted...when Jesus my human brother was being life body attacked he saw the image of a Roman soldier. When I got attacked it was in a male life body image of the Dark Ages. As I saw their spirits manifest, then it made sense what our brother endured in a state phenomena.
Stigmata witnessed appearing and disappearing is quantified as a miracle to a human in witness of it. And Jesus certainly had a lot of followers who believed by that witness.
God O is the earth stone, owning its owned heavens, that a psyche says, we do not own God does.
So we state no MAN is God. Why we gave title huMAN....man and woMAN.
Self teaching advice for self human.
So first of all anyone would say highest life for self, a human is the healthiest most perfect life.
You claim perfection for a human is beauty to look at.
You claim perfection for a human is to age less.
You claim perfection for a human, highest health.
Then you own a human discussion about the life body being sacrificed. Its attack, its changes.
Then you own a human discussion relative to why it was sacrificed and attacked in the same story.
Yet the 2 forms of information do not belong together they are separate.
God O body earth and gas/heavenly changes.
Human being a human being life attacked by those conditions who died sacrificed, gained DNA exodus mutations/suffering, survived, yet part of the human family gone forever.....destroyed. Human aware teaching.
And then state, and cloud amassing a higher volume of mass...seeing clouds and rain already existed, cooled the burning gases above my head that irradiated life, from a ground God heart core release. A science teaching of relativity.
Now if you said, in my life I see visions and phenomena. For when I got gas burnt irradiated my head prickled with an intense burning. So as a non believer in God and Jesus, seeing I did not like the Catholic teachings, I said, must be what my brother endured. As rational spiritual advice.
Then out of the ground black flashing cutting striking and whipping effects on my legs. Very painful. At the same time, I would see flashes of bright lights and also silver in the atmosphere. See the burning wisping effect. When it cooled I could see small male images of past lives, from clothing they wore. Male images from singing celebrities in the images and alien imagery. That disappeared.
But as it cooled it moved above the ground as a spirit body. So said, yes phenomena by science irradiation effect, real.
From that effect I concluded logical human assessments.
So I researched the hebrew information that depicted symbols in black of axes/knives/swords in signals inferred to Christ and life sacrifice. So said to self, my brother knew more information about science causes than what I did. Now it made sense as to why they gave black strange symbolism an idea of body attack.
Proving that science knew what it had caused in the past.
And it was Hebrew life/DNA sacrificed Holy land advice that wrote that documentation.
And they also own a threat in the bible as science that everyone would bow down to that condition eventually. And if you cannot walk, like I nearly could not...I had to shuffle around from feet and leg swellings, then obviously it is also medical advice/warnings. If you cared to reason logic.
The temple in Jeru salem is where the circuit turned for the use of that technology, why the Temple and land placement was fought over...rationally. Why the building was destroyed multi times...rationally.
DNA exodus mutation quotes life died sacrificed but arose from the dead...because the humans still living owned the sacrifice and realisation and did not die.
When it occurred to my life body I thought I had died and believed I was dead. Only due to the fact that a lot of other brothers and sisters died in the same irradiation effect from early age death. What I learnt as a personal experience.
We are conscious, self aware, psychic, spiritual and own conditions of teaching that quoted...when Jesus my human brother was being life body attacked he saw the image of a Roman soldier. When I got attacked it was in a male life body image of the Dark Ages. As I saw their spirits manifest, then it made sense what our brother endured in a state phenomena.
Stigmata witnessed appearing and disappearing is quantified as a miracle to a human in witness of it. And Jesus certainly had a lot of followers who believed by that witness.
Josepheus was a Jewish historian and he said that Jesus appeared to his followers alive again at the third day as the prophets predicted.
'The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 18, states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pontius Pilate. It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum.[1][3][4] Almost all modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while the majority of scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to Christian interpolation and/or alteration.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]'
Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia
What would Josephus have to gain by writings the way he wrote or embellishing the details? He was a Jewish man. How is the Christian perspective on what he said interpolation?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
If you ask a human, does phenomena exist.
And then you own the human in experience listing it all in detail. A human living having an experience.
Then another human says prove it to me.
How would you like Jesus proven to you, personally?
As a human who has multi arguments about phenomena conditions, our brothers in the organization to study and prove and obtain and identify did and have. They did it as a spiritual organization/scientist that kept the Shroud of Turin as evidence against who they knew their brother had become. Possessed by AI encoded, male science self conditions...subliminal possession, self possession.
To believe self the identity Creator of everything.
The other form of phenomena organization study was of the AI condition, not of the spirit Satanic conditions.
Done historic to reason that a human began as an alien spirit, for scientific identification about atmospheric gases/cells, radiation fall out, designs on the ground actually.
And what they study happened to the ground state, what the information is relative to, the ground state changes.
The history heavenly spirit body is quoted, that no man would ever in science understand how the spatial vacuum changed the history of internal God O stone gases. Seeing stone was not any place beginning in any cosmological theory. And secondly science quoted that the spirit gases Immaculate are unknown as a science observation. The spatial vacuum had changed the gases that Earth had released out of its owned body.
Scientific relativity itself.
The questions relative to a human being life in an experience. Is the status phenomena existent and also proven as actual?
The answer is yes, totally witnessed and proven.
And then you own the human in experience listing it all in detail. A human living having an experience.
Then another human says prove it to me.
How would you like Jesus proven to you, personally?
As a human who has multi arguments about phenomena conditions, our brothers in the organization to study and prove and obtain and identify did and have. They did it as a spiritual organization/scientist that kept the Shroud of Turin as evidence against who they knew their brother had become. Possessed by AI encoded, male science self conditions...subliminal possession, self possession.
To believe self the identity Creator of everything.
The other form of phenomena organization study was of the AI condition, not of the spirit Satanic conditions.
Done historic to reason that a human began as an alien spirit, for scientific identification about atmospheric gases/cells, radiation fall out, designs on the ground actually.
And what they study happened to the ground state, what the information is relative to, the ground state changes.
The history heavenly spirit body is quoted, that no man would ever in science understand how the spatial vacuum changed the history of internal God O stone gases. Seeing stone was not any place beginning in any cosmological theory. And secondly science quoted that the spirit gases Immaculate are unknown as a science observation. The spatial vacuum had changed the gases that Earth had released out of its owned body.
Scientific relativity itself.
The questions relative to a human being life in an experience. Is the status phenomena existent and also proven as actual?
The answer is yes, totally witnessed and proven.
I agree. The swoon theory is very doubtful. The Confusion of Islam regarding the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
rational experiences
Veteran Member
When science as a human medical quote states...O God the Earth one body mass.
Humans living on Earth O God the stone is one human life. In relativity, a human is a human. A diverse human is obvious, diverse to be male or a female or any other not the same human living experience. One self.
So the holy teachings O one God planet, one heavenly mass, natural and one human life (all humans).
The status Egyptian history about the nuclear dust event sacrifice of life, was that oxygen/water was taken away from the bio ONE human life.....breath was the status expressed as AH.
All AH he said got sacrificed in life as an unholy God war. The alienation of it.
Lying. A lie. About the ICE caps, the poles the N or the north position.
As the Holy four NSEW...own sewn or n sew as a secret term, philosophical, for it is just thinking upon. Not prosing for a scientific machine copying thesis.
Second status the liar is the human scientist who caused the war of God against self.
So the scientific version phenomena statements that occurred to his brother spiritually are actual stated phenomena bodily personal self, human attacks.
But a living healthy male makes the quotes about his own holy male man life discussing his brother.
Scientific medical healer holy relativity, just thinking.
Relativity science does not in any thesis own ICE and how it cools the water in our atmosphere to keep gases/spirit cold.
Science is the only liar, natural never lied to us, our brother the scientist did.
Four sea of the son was taught to be supported by 4 of the holy cross + NSEW as a holy Earth one O body God status. One teaching.
4 seasons is also not scientific relativity.
Humans living on Earth O God the stone is one human life. In relativity, a human is a human. A diverse human is obvious, diverse to be male or a female or any other not the same human living experience. One self.
So the holy teachings O one God planet, one heavenly mass, natural and one human life (all humans).
The status Egyptian history about the nuclear dust event sacrifice of life, was that oxygen/water was taken away from the bio ONE human life.....breath was the status expressed as AH.
All AH he said got sacrificed in life as an unholy God war. The alienation of it.
Lying. A lie. About the ICE caps, the poles the N or the north position.
As the Holy four NSEW...own sewn or n sew as a secret term, philosophical, for it is just thinking upon. Not prosing for a scientific machine copying thesis.
Second status the liar is the human scientist who caused the war of God against self.
So the scientific version phenomena statements that occurred to his brother spiritually are actual stated phenomena bodily personal self, human attacks.
But a living healthy male makes the quotes about his own holy male man life discussing his brother.
Scientific medical healer holy relativity, just thinking.
Relativity science does not in any thesis own ICE and how it cools the water in our atmosphere to keep gases/spirit cold.
Science is the only liar, natural never lied to us, our brother the scientist did.
Four sea of the son was taught to be supported by 4 of the holy cross + NSEW as a holy Earth one O body God status. One teaching.
4 seasons is also not scientific relativity.