Why do you reject the belief that it was Jesus who did both?
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Christianity vs Baha'i
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Why do you reject the belief that it was Jesus who did both?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We don't need another Savior because Jesus was Savior, but we did needed another Messenger of God, which is why God sent Baha'u'llah. I would try not to get hung up on the word Messiah, it is just a title.
Baha'u'llah explained why humanity needed another Messenger in this new age:
“The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200
“We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't reject it. Jesus also did both.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
All of the dates have issues, but the most questionable one is the 2300 morning and evenings prophecy. Here's from your link...
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary 42 and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Briefly, the purport of this passage is that he appoints two thousand three hundred years, for in the text of the Bible each day is a year. Then from the date of the issuing of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the manifestation of the Báb there are 1844 years. When you add 456 years to this number it makes 2300 years.
The edict to rebuild Jerusalem is not the starting point of the 2300 years. When did the abomination happen? That's where it starts. Daniel 8:13 “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Or, Jesus will return and that will make the Baha'is the liars. Or, The Messiah will come and both Christians, Muslims, and Baha'is are wrong. Or, Kalki will return in India.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
No, you do a lot of interpreting. And so do Christians. Nothing is all that clear. Both of you interpret verses to make your guy the one that is coming.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Just like Baha'is, Christians take the one verse and make it into a prophecy. In Isaiah 7, who is the sign for? King Ahaz What is the sign? A child, a boy that by the time he gets old enough to choose good the two kings that are threatening him will be dead. Why take only verse fourteen and make that and only that a prophecy?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yeah, yeah, yeah... but is that what the NT says? No. The tomb is empty. The apostles and Mary and others saw him and touched him. That's what the NT says. To get around that Baha'is make all that metaphorical and make the physical body of Jesus dead. So what is your explanation of what happened to his physical body? At least one Baha'i here says that his followers took it and hid it. If that is true, then is the resurrection story metaphorical or a lie to cover up the theft of the body?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am sure glad I do not have to worry or wait for any of that to happen.
Sometimes I get really angry at God and I wish I was not a Baha'i, but after listening to the Christians and to the undecided on this forum I start to realize what I actually have, and I am grateful again.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If that is so impressive to you, why don't you become a Christian? Then you won't have to be undecided anymore.
I don't think anyone knows where His body is, but that is certainly not proof Jesus rose from the dead.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Well yes we would. But we're not. Baha'is say someday there will be peace and harmony. But for now, this supposed return of Christ has only brought more trials and tribulations. I don't see that in the Bible. Messiah comes and makes things right. But that doesn't fit with the Baha'i beliefs. So they say because Baha'u'llah was rejected... we have to go through all the problems and world wars until finally we all realize that he was the Christ... and we all start obeying his rules and put into practice his plan for unity and peace. And don't ask me where that is predicted in the Bible, 'cause I don't know.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yet, you don't actually participate in your own Baha'i community? Something ain't right. Is it you or them or a little of both? Because if you can't even make it work with the other Baha'is in your city, how is it going to work on a world scale?
But don't feel too bad. The same thing happened to my Baha'i friends 50 years ago. They didn't get along with the more authoritarian, conservative, administratively oriented Baha'is.
At least Christians solve part of that problem. All the bad, evil people and cast into a fiery pit. Only good people are left. Which brings up a good question... Why didn't Baha'u'llah do away with all the evil people? Isn't that part of what is supposed to happen when Christ returns?
There are no prophets after John the Baptist and the Bible was complete with the book of Revelation.
Why does there need to be another messenger with the title Messiah who teaches us how to live?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I was first with Baha'is and then Christians in the 70's. I already gave it a try. And Christians do know where his body is. You're the ones that say it is dead and gone. So I guess you do know where it is. It is dust. Only thing is, your beliefs make the Christian beliefs completely and totally false. And, they do the same to yours. I don't see any reason to decide one way or another. The world is more screwed up now then when Baha'u'llah came. And, because it is getting worse, Christians are still in the running to be the ones that are right.
That Bible verse is about Jesus being hidden from King Herod. King Herod died when Jesus was a child. The boy getting old enough to choose good doesn't contradict Jesus being sinless.
The Bible says that Jesus will rule from Israel for a thousand years. That prophecy isn't fulfilled yet.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That is what Isaiah 7 is really about? So it has nothing to do with King Ahaz and the two kings threatening to attack him?
Do you agree with Christians about the tomb and body of Jesus?
That has nothing to do with whether Jesus is the Messiah, because even Jewish people don't believe that King Ahaz is the Messiah.