InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
Bahaullah said Abdulbaha was the mystery of God.
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Christianity vs Baha'i
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
Yes, but please elaborate what point is in this? I noticed the cross references and where He stopped. But not sure what you are trying to say.
What in the Bible do you think is metaphorical? David is Jesse's son. By being a descendant of Jesse, Jesus is a descendant of David by default.
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
My guy?
It is not about what matter. The previous prophets gave signs about the Promised One. The Jewish Prophets said, the Promised One is a descendant of Jesse
We know that the family of Bahaullah was known to be descendant of the Israelite kings through king David. This is what matters.
If Bahaullah was not a descendant of Jesse, why was He known to be descendant of King David?
Now that 1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days fit with the Manifestations of the Bab, Bahaullah, and establishment of Universal House of Justice, and the titles of Bahaullah, the places He was, and everything else matches with prophecies of the Bible and every other Religion, we can tell, He has fulfilled the Prophecies.
These are signs so, you can realize Bahaullah fits with the prophecies.
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InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
When did Jesus say that He was descendant of Jesse or David? Please quote Jesus. I dont know why you think Jesus was descendant of David or Jesse.
Luke mentioned that Jesus is descended from Nathan the Son of David. David was the Son of Jesse.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Maybe we deserve punishment for breaking the laws of God, and I think we get punished for that by suffering the consequences of our actions in this life and the afterlife, but I do not believe we deserve Hell for that. Even life imprisonment or the death penalty is not forever, because we have an afterlife. According to Baha'i beliefs we reap what we sow and we will be punished one way or another.
I am happy for you that you feel this way, but I cannot honestly say I feel this way, as I have suffered far too much more than you can ever know. God alone knows the depths of my suffering but I do not see God helping be at all. Truthseeker9 (Duane) who is my best Baha'i friend have been discussing this on a thread I started last night: #25 Trailblazer
I want you to be aware that what I say is not always representative of the Baha'i views on God, but rather what Duane says is representative because he is a very faithful Bahai.
The way we get God's help is through the Messengers of God, who are like Divine Physicians. We might also get it in other ways, but the whole world is in need of God's help in this new age, not just individuals.
“Blessed is the man that hath acknowledged his belief in God and in His signs, and recognized that “He shall not be asked of His doings.” Such a recognition hath been made by God the ornament of every belief, and its very foundation. Upon it must depend the acceptance of every goodly deed. ………. Such is the teaching which God bestoweth on you, a teaching that will deliver you from all manner of doubt and perplexity, and enable you to attain unto salvation in both this world and in the next. He, verily, is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Bountiful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 86-87
“Wert thou to consider, for but a little while, the outward works and doings of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, thou wouldst fall down upon the ground, and exclaim: O Thou Who art the Lord of Lords! I testify that Thou art the Lord of all creation, and the Educator of all beings, visible and invisible. I bear witness that Thy power hath encompassed the entire universe, and that the hosts of the earth can never dismay Thee, nor can the dominion of all peoples and nations deter Thee from executing Thy purpose. I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 243
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
Luke, Which verse?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe that the Son of man coming in the clouds is Jesus, I believe it was Baha'u'llah. If you want to understand why I believe that, you can read a thread I started a while back:
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
God's judicial equivalent of life imprisonment or the death penalty is hell because God is an eternal being.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
From a Baha'i perspective, there is more than one kind of prophet, so we might not need any more of the kinds of prophets that are in the Bible, but we did need the prophets that are considered universal Manifestations of God:
Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?
Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.
Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.
The Three Kinds of Prophets
We can differentiate prophets by what they actually do. The Universal Manifestations of God appeared independently of any of the other Prophets and received their own direct revelations from God. They changed the general morals, promote new customs and rules, and renew the religious cycle and the Law. The other prophets such were followers and promoters of the Universal Manifestations of God and they received no direct revelation from God.
“The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. For the independent Prophets are founders; They establish a new religion and make new creatures of men; They change the general morals, promote new customs and rules, renew the cycle and the Law. Their appearance is like the season of spring, which arrays all earthly beings in a new garment, and gives them a new life.” 43: THE TWO CLASSES OF PROPHETS, Some Answered Questions, pp. 164-165
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Can you explain what you mean by that?
Luke 1:27 and 1:32 and Luke 2:4.
Jesus talked about himself coming in the clouds of heaven.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Believe whatever you choose to believe. All I was saying is it is not really that important in the overall scheme of things since it is not the decisive factor as to whether Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God or not. I mean it is just a few verses from the Bible that could have been interpreted correctly or not, but what does that prove? There are hundreds of verses in the Bible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Show me the verses.
Jesus was saying that those prophets would deceive people. Why would there be a need for any kind of prophet after John the Baptist? The idea of a prophet being a universal manifestation of God is antithetical to the Bible. Jesus was has the ministry prophet priest and king but he wasn't first and foremost a prophet he was God.
Eternal punishment doesn't make sense to us because we are not eternal beings and we can't relate to it and there is no exact analogy for it. God does things a certain way because He does all things decently and in order.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We cannot just SAY that the Virgin Birth is mythology, we have to go by what is in the Baha'i Writings.
It is also stated by Abdu'l-Baha that miracles are not impossible, but that does not mean that we believe in all the miracles purported to have taken place in the Bible.
1637. Christ, Virgin Birth of
"First regarding the birth of Jesus Christ. In light of what Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá have stated concerning this subject it is evident that Jesus came into this world through the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, and that consequently His birth was quite miraculous. This is an established fact, and the friends need not feel at all surprised, as the belief in the possibility of miracles has never been rejected in the Teachings. Their importance, however, has been minimized."
(From a letter dated December 31, 1937 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)
1639. Bahá’í Teachings in Agreement with Doctrines of Catholic Church Concerning the Virgin Birth
"With regard to your question concerning the Virgin Birth of Jesus: On this point, as on several others, the Bahá’í Teachings are in full agreement with the doctrines of the Catholic Church. In the 'Kitáb-i-Íqán' (Book of Certitude) p. 56, and in a few other Tablets still unpublished, Bahá’u’lláh confirms, however indirectly, the Catholic conception of the Virgin Birth. Also ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in the 'Some Answered Questions', Chap. XII, p. 73, explicitly states that 'Christ found existence through the Spirit of God' which statement necessarily implies, when viewed in the light of the text, that Jesus was not the son of Joseph."
(From a letter dated October 14, 1945 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)
Lights of Guidance/Christ - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith