What If You're Wrong

thomas t said:

If we are wrong about the creator if there is one... it's like being wrong about the host of where we are invited. It does matter.

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I believe it matters more than anything in the world, and more than anything in our lives, but I am not an atheist.

I tend to approach things logically. If there is no God, what have believers lost by believing in God, and if there is a God, what have atheists lost by not believing? It all boils down to the answer to those questions.

I think that Dawkins' answer was one of the best ways to answer that kind of hypothetical question. There are so many different ways that he could answer it, but he chose to challenge the questioner to think about what she is asking a nonbeliever. He can't actually answer the question until she explains her concept of God and what she thinks the consequence would be for someone who doesn't believe in her God. What Dawkins is really saying here is that his answer would depend on what she thinks, not what he thinks, and he doesn't actually know what she thinks. There are so many different possible concepts of God, and she has asked about her specific version. Atheism is not just about a rejection of belief in her god, but all gods. The consequences of being wrong about one version of God are not necessarily the same as those about another.

QuestioningMind said:

So if you happen to pick the wrong one you're just as screwed as the atheists, right?

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No, you are not as screwed, not unless you pick a religion that is not a true religion that was revealed by the one true God... I mean if you pick a so-called religion such as Scientology you would not be any better off than had you remained an atheist and you would be even worse off because that kind of belief system could prevent you from finding a true religion.

I agree with what thomas t said: If you think several religions could be the real one... then try to find the one which is really right in your opinion, that would be my suggestion.

ChristineM said:

If im wrong in wrong, i can live with that. How about you, can you live contently if you are proven wrong?

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The salient problem is that none of us will really know if we are wrong until we die and cross over to the other side, but by then it might be too late to change our minds.

Until we die, we can believe or disbelieve anything we want to because we have free will to choose, but according to my beliefs we won't have free will in the afterlife. Logically speaking, I think that is why scriptures put so much emphasis on believing in God before we die.

Trailblazer said:

The salient problem is that none of us will really know if we are wrong until we die and cross over to the other side, but by then it might be too late to change our minds.

Until we die, we can believe or disbelieve anything we want to because we have free will to choose, but according to my beliefs we won't have free will in the afterlife. Logically speaking, I think that is why scriptures put so much emphasis on believing in God before we die.

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And after i die i am dead

QuestioningMind said:

How so? What do you imagine I am denying myself in this life by lacking a belief that there is an afterlife? If it turns out that there is some sort of an afterlife then I'll simply be pleasantly surprised.

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There is a lot more to people believing in an afterlife than the afterlife, itself. Such a belief can have a strong positive effect on one's experience of this life.

ChristineM said:

And after i die i am dead

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I would not count on that.

Trailblazer said:

I would not count on that.

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I do

QuestioningMind said:

As long as there are more than one exclusionary religion then you'd be taking a gamble if you chose just one of them to follow.

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You would be gambling unless there is a religion that encompasses all the major religions.

“Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind.”
The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 58

Fundamental Principle of Religious Truth

ChristineM said:

I do

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I do not know how you can be so certain, but I am sure you think the same about me, since I am as certain as you are of what I believe.

Trailblazer said:

No, you are not as screwed, not unless you pick a religion that is not a true religion that was revealed by the one true God... I mean if you pick a so-called religion such as Scientology you would not be any better off than had you remained an atheist and you would be even worse off because that kind of belief system could prevent you from finding a true religion.

I agree with what thomas t said: If you think several religions could be the real one... then try to find the one which is really right in your opinion, that would be my suggestion.

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That's exactly what I said.. If you happen to pick the wrong religion... or not a 'true' religion... then you're screwed.

QuestioningMind said:

That's exactly what I said.. If you happen to pick the wrong religion... or not a 'true' religion... then you're screwed.

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I guess you and I think alike because I fully agree with you, but please see my second post to you.

PureX said:

There is a lot more to people believing in an afterlife than the afterlife, itself. Such a belief can have a strong positive effect on one's experience of this life.

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In my opinion my lack of a belief in an afterlife has had a strong positive effect on my experiences during this life. Still not sure what you think I'm denying myself.

Trailblazer said:

You would be gambling unless there is a religion that encompasses all the major religions.

“Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind.”
The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 58

Fundamental Principle of Religious Truth

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Except that an exclusionary religion by definition cannot encompass all other religions.

I don't think we are screwed because we hold wrong religious beliefs. Beliefs, in and out of themselves, are harmless. If people who believe in flat earth are proven wrong, I don't think there would be any dire consequences for their wrongness. If, however, our beliefs had caused us to do something that is unforgivably harmful, destructive [like Salem Witch Trials, killing of infidels, apostates, terrorism etc. etc. etc.], then you, most likely, are screwed. You have to reap the damage you have sown.

If I am wrong, I don't it would make any difference to me. If there is no god, well, I'll just go to eternal sleep. If there is a god, well, I got it right then, but still it's no use if I have been an a''hole [which, btw, I am]. If there is a god but he is of a different religion and/or unlike the idealized version I believed [Panentheistic God], well, i am too insignificant for God for Him to unleash His Wrath on me for little-to-no reason. If there is a god of different religion and/or unlike the Panentheistic God I personally believed in AND this God wants to punish me for mistakes that I am bound to make due to the very frail nature and flawed, limited brain [and other short-comings] He Designated for me, well, such a god is not worthy of worshipping.

QuestioningMind said:

In my opinion my lack of a belief in an afterlife has had a strong positive effect on my experiences during this life. Still not sure what you think I'm denying myself.

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Even if you believe that lack of belief in an afterlife has had a strong positive effect on your experiences during this life:
(a) you cannot know how your experiences in this life would have been different if you had believed in an afterlife, and (b) even if you had to sacrifice some of what you could have done in this life because you believed in an afterlife, you might get a better return in the end, if there is an afterlife.

QuestioningMind said:

Except that an exclusionary religion by definition cannot encompass all other religions.

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Of course it can't, and it would not make any logical sense to pick an exclusionary religion, because it make zero sense that God would be exclusionary and any such God would not be worth believing in anyway.

Trailblazer said:

Even if you believe that lack of belief in an afterlife has had a strong positive effect on your experiences during this life:
(a) you cannot know how your experiences in this life would have been different if you had believed in an afterlife, and (b) even if you had to sacrifice some of what you could have done in this life because you believed in an afterlife, you might get a better return in the end, if there is an afterlife.

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Even if you believe that a belief in an afterlife has had a strong positive effect on your experiences during this life:
(a) you cannot know how your experiences in this life would have been different if you had not believed in an afterlife, and
(b) even if you had to sacrifice some of what you could have done in this life because you didn't believe in an afterlife, you might get a better return in the end, if there isn't an afterlife.

Trailblazer said:

Of course it can't, and it would not make any logical sense to pick an exclusionary religion, because it make zero sense that God would be exclusionary and any such God would not be worth believing in anyway.

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But if god IS exclusionary and you failed to believe in him you'd be screwed.

thomas t said:

last time he did so, he ended at the cross, according to the Bible.
Lets assume the Bible was right.
This time he perhaps might not be eager anymore to come to an environment in which people want to kill him again, it seems.

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If he is afraid of his own creation, perhaps making them in his own image wasn't such a great idea.