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Another thread on Islam, Muslims and terrorism, because its needed for some

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Lol. Armies of Allah you said. I cant believe this really.

Anyway, lets say this so called "Imams of Iran". Can you quote them quoting the Quran specifically and analyse it objectively? Give me a proper source, and lets see if that is valid. No problem.

Mohammed was the 'caravan raider' who warred against the pagans of Mecca and the Jews of Medina.
This is history. I believe it. I believe too that Mohammed took a liking to young women, even those who
belonged to other men. It's been said that to understand any group you need to look first at its founder.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Yeah. So how is the Bible relevant?

By way of comparison. I am a Christian so it become the reference point. Christianity
was by way of personal conversion, not conquest. Yes, in later periods we see the
reign of the Catholic Church and its crusades, forced conversions etc. but that remains
in breach of Christianity, not in obedience to it.
But in Islam forced conversions began with its founder.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Lol. Armies of Allah you said. I cant believe this really.

Anyway, lets say this so called "Imams of Iran". Can you quote them quoting the Quran specifically and analyse it objectively? Give me a proper source, and lets see if that is valid. No problem.

No, because I don't follow the Ayatollahs or their Shia clerics. I just see the results
of the religious revolution in Iran.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
So basically you don’t know if they ever quoted. Thus blame it on what you wish with nothing in hand. Great.

Oh sure, like all good Shias, they quote the Koran. And they are deeply inspired by Mohammed,
both in what he said and what he did. One of the main enemies of Iran is Israel, and as we know,
Mohammed was the first Islamic Jew killer.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Oh sure, like all good Shias, they quote the Koran. And they are deeply inspired by Mohammed,
both in what he said and what he did. One of the main enemies of Iran is Israel, and as we know,
Mohammed was the first Islamic Jew killer.

Okay. So show me where this so called whoever has quoted the Quran in one of those accusations you made.

See, just saying something is not valid unless you can provide some substance in order to analyse the validity of it. You see? Only if you show the proper source one could analyse it.

But it is obvious you are not interested in anything like that but just make some statements. Please try.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Mohammed was the 'caravan raider' who warred against the pagans of Mecca and the Jews of Medina.
This is history. I believe it. I believe too that Mohammed took a liking to young women, even those who
belonged to other men. It's been said that to understand any group you need to look first at its founder.

YOU BELIEVE IT. Thats it?

So dont you think that's like "Blind Belief". You just believe it because you want to believe it and nothing is gonna even make you analyse. You dont even know the sources, why its historical, nothing. You dont care. But you just want to believe.

Amazing. Its called blind faith. This thread was not opened to discuss blind faith, or valid faith, or anything of the sort. Please read the OP.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
YOU BELIEVE IT. Thats it?

So dont you think that's like "Blind Belief". You just believe it because you want to believe it and nothing is gonna even make you analyse. You dont even know the sources, why its historical, nothing. You dont care. But you just want to believe.

Amazing. Its called blind faith. This thread was not opened to discuss blind faith, or valid faith, or anything of the sort. Please read the OP.

So you are saying that Mohammed wasn't an Islamist terrorist and a pedophile?
I thought most Muslims believed this (and didn't have much problem with it BTW)
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Okay. So show me where this so called whoever has quoted the Quran in one of those accusations you made.

See, just saying something is not valid unless you can provide some substance in order to analyse the validity of it. You see? Only if you show the proper source one could analyse it.

But it is obvious you are not interested in anything like that but just make some statements. Please try.

Not interested in 'analyzing' the issue. I read current events. I read about the Ayatollah and his love of Mohammed
and hatred of Jews. I read the threats Iran makes against Israel and international Jews. I won't analyze it. They do
what Mohammed do - HE loved violence, territory and young girls.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
So you are saying that Mohammed wasn't an Islamist terrorist and a pedophile?
I thought most Muslims believed this (and didn't have much problem with it BTW)

Lol. So most Muslims believe that Muhammed was an Islamic Terrorist and a pedophile? :) :)

I think one more exchange with you is absolutely useless, but please go ahead and let your inborn hatred flow like a dumb terminal, no processing, just input output. Its a good opportunity. Thanks for the exchange. I learned something about some people from you. Good.

Peace.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Lol. So most Muslims believe that Muhammed was an Islamic Terrorist and a pedophile? :) :)

I think one more exchange with you is absolutely useless, but please go ahead and let your inborn hatred flow like a dumb terminal, no processing, just input output. Its a good opportunity. Thanks for the exchange. I learned something about some people from you. Good.

Peace.

No, they don't say Mohammed was a terrorist, they say he had to kill because he was
creating a new faith - and there were many pagans and Jews seeking to stop him.
And they don't say Mohammed was a pedophile, they just say it's fine to have young but
consenting girls (and the poor guy who lost his wife, well he wanted Mohammed to have her)
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
No, they don't say Mohammed was a terrorist, they say he had to kill because he was
creating a new faith - and there were many pagans and Jews seeking to stop him.
And they don't say Mohammed was a pedophile, they just say it's fine to have young but
consenting girls (and the poor guy who lost his wife, well he wanted Mohammed to have her)

So you have blind faith in what people you hate say? Or is it people you love you have blind faith in? Where does your faith lie? You say you are not interested in analysis, so your faith lies in what others say and what sounds good to you either to fulfil your faith or gives you the tool to hate.

Super.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
So you have blind faith in what people you hate say? Or is it people you love you have blind faith in? Where does your faith lie? You say you are not interested in analysis, so your faith lies in what others say and what sounds good to you either to fulfil your faith or gives you the tool to hate.

Super.

No, no blind faith here - I accept the history of Mohammed like I accept the history
of Hannibal and Caesar.
True story - I was with my friend sitting at a canteen table with some Muslims. There
were, if I recall, a Jordanian, Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyptian and a few others. Quite
an interesting collection of guys I happened to like. So I asked them as a group, "If
you an atomic bomb, what would you do with it?" and they more or less chorused,
"Drop it on America." At this time it was the Cold War - no Iranian Ayatollahs, no Iraq
troubles, no Afghanistan etc.. "But America has 20,000 atom bombs. What will they
do to you?" They just shrugged and explained, "It doesn't matter."
I turned to my friend and said, "Does't it make you afraid?"
So I am afraid of Islam. Afraid of its fatalism, afraid of its infiltration of European nations,
afraid of its violence and envy of Christians.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
No, no blind faith here - I accept the history of Mohammed like I accept the history
of Hannibal and Caesar.

Which history, where, who reported it, when was it reported, why do you accept it?

Nah. you won't answer that question! Because you already said you dont care mate.

When you dont care about any of those questions but accept something with no analysis that's called "Blind Faith".

;)
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Which history, where, who reported it, when was it reported, why do you accept it?

Nah. you won't answer that question! Because you already said you dont care mate.

When you dont care about any of those questions but accept something with no analysis that's called "Blind Faith".

;)

So is there an alternate history of Mohammed? One that says he didn't attack caravans, or
kill Jews, or marry young girls? I thought all Arabs accepted this account - it's their account,
after all.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I can go kill the unbeliever of Islam because the Koran says I can. I am being a good Muslim.
I can kill in the name of Jesus but the Gospel say I can't. I am being a bad Christian.
That's the difference.

Q4:95 “Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons
than to those who sit (at home).”
Q8:60 “to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides,
whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know.”
Q9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been
forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the
People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Matthew 5 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate
you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"
Joel 3:9:

Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack.

Matthew 24:6:

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Romans 13:4:

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Deuteronomy 20:1-4:

1 When you go to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the LORD your God, who brought you up out of Egypt, will be with you. 2 When you are about to go into battle, the priest shall come forward and address the army. 3 He shall say: “Hear, Israel: Today you are going into battle against your enemies. Do not be fainthearted or afraid; do not panic or be terrified by them. 4 For the LORD your God is the one who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies to give you victory.”

Psalm 144:

1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. 2 He is my loving God and my fortress, my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield, in whom I take refuge, who subdues peoples under me. 3 LORD, what are human beings that you care for them, mere mortals that you think of them? 4 They are like a breath; their days are like a fleeting shadow. 5 Part your heavens, LORD, and come down; touch the mountains, so that they smoke. 6 Send forth lightning and scatter the enemy; shoot your arrows and rout them. 7 Reach down your hand from on high; deliver me and rescue me from the mighty waters, from the hands of foreigners 8 whose mouths are full of lies, whose right hands are deceitful. 9 I will sing a new song to you, my God; on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you, 10 to the One who gives victory to kings, who delivers his servant David. From the deadly sword 11 deliver me; rescue me from the hands of foreigners whose mouths are full of lies, whose right hands are deceitful. 12 Then our sons in their youth will be like well-nurtured plants, and our daughters will be like pillars carved to adorn a palace. 13 Our barns will be filled with every kind of provision. Our sheep will increase by thousands, by tens of thousands in our fields; 14 our oxen will draw heavy loads.There will be no breaching of walls, no going into captivity, no cry of distress in our streets. 15 Blessed is the people of whom this is true; blessed is the people whose God is the LORD.

Quran 2:190:

You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
So is there an alternate history of Mohammed? One that says he didn't attack caravans, or
kill Jews, or marry young girls? I thought all Arabs accepted this account - it's their account,
after all.

PP: This happened.
FD: Who said?
PP: I dont care.

Nice discussion.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
By way of comparison. I am a Christian so it become the reference point. Christianity
was by way of personal conversion, not conquest. Yes, in later periods we see the
reign of the Catholic Church and its crusades, forced conversions etc. but that remains
in breach of Christianity, not in obedience to it.
But in Islam forced conversions began with its founder.

Lol. Ill tell you what. Since you are obsessed with making this an Islam vs Christianity, Quran vs Bible kind of thread, let me help you with it by doing something similar to what you are doing. I am sure you will provide the same apologetics seen on the internet. Go ahead. Its gonna be interesting.

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Do you really think that Muslims are terrorists much more than anyone else from any movement or theology?
Yes. Below video is only 2 minutes but makes clear why people get such thoughts

The Paris Charlie Hebdo killer's family is proud of their son to kill the people who blasphemed Islam in Paris. Peace be upon them. So sick.
 
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