Biblical prophecies and statements. Are they about Jesus Christ or Bahaullah?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I see it is a great bounty to be able to accept the Bible as a sure guide and the Quran as the Word of God and at the same time, also get to find the Light of God in all past scriptures.

One would have to ask, if that is not a great path to unity, how else will we find it?

Regards Tony

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Why does the Quran ignore God's name: YHWH, Yahweh?
In Arabic the word for "God" is Allah. In Hebrew it is Elohim. In Greek it is theos. However, in the Bible God reveals his name as "YHWH". There is no name of Allah in the Quran. Why does the Qu'ran not use the same name as the Bible? Why does the Quran reject God's self-revealed name?

Now for clarification purposes, the term 'Allah' has become synonymous with the name of the God of Islam. But, that is incorrect. Again, Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, not the name of the Islamic God. But, common usage has grown enough that the word "Allah" is considered the name of the Islamic God. So, sometimes clarification is necessary. Nevertheless, there is a problem for the Muslim.

• Surah 6:34, "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers."
• Surah 6:115, "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all."
• Surah 18:27, "And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him."

Since the Quran says that none can change the words of Allah, then the name of God, YHWH, also pronounced as Yahweh, cannot be altered. It must be his true name. In fact, the word "Yahweh" occurs more than 6000 times in the Old Testament. Why does the Quran not proclaim the name that God himself proclaimed?

• Isaiah 42:8, "I am the LORD [YHWH], that is My name. I will not give My glory to another, nor My praise to graven images."
• Psalm 30:4, "Sing praise to the LORD, you His godly ones, and give thanks to His holy name."
• Daniel 2:20, "Daniel said, “Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, for wisdom and power belong to Him."

Perhaps the Bible gives us a clue about those who do not promote the name of God.

• Jeremiah 23:26–27, "How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, 27 who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?"

Question for Muslims
If, as Muslims teach, they have the true revelation of God in the Quran, and if it is also true that none can alter the words of Allah (Surah 6:34, 115; 18:27), then surely in the Old Testament when God revealed his name by his own action and voice (Exodus 3:14; Isaiah 42:8), then it cannot be altered and that is the name of God, the true God. Why do the Muslims ignore his holy name?

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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Baha'u'llah made it clear he came for the Salvation of all Humanity and gave us the teachings to do so.

So your statement is not correct.

Regards Tony

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Skywalker said:

The Bible says not to add or subtract to God's word.

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Skywalker said:

The Bible says not to add or subtract to God's word.

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InvestigateTruth said:

This is for the people. No body can add or remove from the Bible. There is no such restriction on God Himself though.

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Skywalker said:

The Quran isn't the Word of God, because it doesn't agree with the teachings of the Bible.

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9-10ths_Penguin said:

The authors of the Gospels were certainly aware of all those passages and had them in mind when they wrote their works, yes.

... but this tells us nothing about the intent of the writers of the Tanakh.


Sure it does.



In the Christian reinterpretation of the Tanakh, that's certainly true, but again: this tells us nothing about the intent of the writers of the Tanakh.

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Skywalker said:

When the Quran and Bahai faith were written, the Bible was complete and there was no need for new revelation.

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Skywalker said:

Jesus did not teach Islam. Does John 14:16 predict the coming of Muhammad? | CARM.org

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Skywalker said:

Jesus did not teach Islam. Does John 14:16 predict the coming of Muhammad? | CARM.org

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Skywalker said:

Bahá’u’lláh didn't agree with the Bible's concept of the Messiah as an Advocate and a Redeemer.

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InvestigateTruth said:

Biblical References to Muhammad and 'Alí

"References in the Bible to 'Mt. Paran' and 'Paraclete' refer to Muhammad's Revelation: Deuteronomy 33:2, Genesis 21:21, Numbers 12:16, Numbers 13:3. Genesis 17:20 refers to the twelve Imáms and in the Revelation of St. John, chapter 11, where it mentions two witnesses, it refers to Muhammad and 'Alí.

"The figures 1290 date from the declaration of Muhammad, ten years before His flight to Medina."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of Australia and New Zealand, December 26, 1941)


Lights of Guidance/Islám - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

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Isaiah 29:11-12, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith
Muslims often claim Isaiah 29:11-12 refers to the revelation of the Quran to the illiterate prophet Muhammad, who the Angel Gabriel commanded to read (or recite) and who responded that he could not. By the angel's compulsion and instruction he did finally recite and brought forth the Quran. Mormons, likewise, claim that the golden plates of the Book of Mormon are the "sealed book" and that Joseph Smith, who became a prophet as an unlearned rural youth, is the illiterate man to whom the sealed book is given. Mormon scriptures even describe a scene where a scholar is speaking with Joseph Smith about the golden plates and literally exclaims in frustration, "I cannot read a sealed book."1 The truth is, these verses are not referring to Muhammad, Joseph Smith, or any uneducated future prophet at all.

"The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, 'Please read this,' he will say, 'I cannot, for it is sealed.' Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, 'Please read this.' And he will say, 'I cannot read,'" (Isaiah 29:11-12).

Immediate Observations
Before even moving into the greater context, it is worth pointing out that these verses could not possibly mean what Muslims or Mormons claim of them. Even if we just take the verses by themselves, Isaiah says that the vision he is speaking of will be "like" a sealed book that people take to both a literate and illiterate man. That means that it will not actually be a sealed book brought to such men. It is a comparison. Isaiah is making an analogy.

It's also plain that neither the literate nor the illiterate man are able to read the book. The point of the verse is not that the literate man cannot read the book but that the illiterate man can read it. No one can read the book. No matter who you take the book to, it is unreadable. Isaiah compares the vision to a book that no one can read. There is no prophetic figure in this analogy, and it is clearly only an analogy. To make it literal defies the very words, and to make one of the figures a prophet who successfully reads the book makes no sense at all. One needn't look any further than these two verses themselves to see that they have nothing to do with Muhammad or Joseph Smith.

The Greater Context
When we do look at the broader context, this becomes even clearer. The Chapter opens:

"Woe, O Ariel, Ariel the city where David once camped! Add year to year, observe your feasts on schedule. I will bring distress to Ariel, And she will be a city of lamenting and mourning; And she will be like an Ariel to me. I will camp against you encircling you, And I will set siegeworks against you, And I will raise up battle towers against you," (Isaiah 29:1-3).

This is a prophecy of destruction on Jerusalem, the "city where David once camped" and where the temple is, and thus the feasts are observed. Verses 4-8 go onto to describe how God will judge Jerusalem by raising up the nations against her, but then God will, in turn, bring judgment on those nations. Verses 9-10 go on to say:

"Be delayed and wait, Blind yourselves and be blind; They become drunk, but not with wine, They stagger, but not with strong drink. For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep, He has shut your eyes, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, the seers," (Isaiah 29:9-10).

Far from promising a new prophet, God promised to conceal prophesy from them. Their "eyes," the prophets of God, would be shut. The seers would be covered. God would give them a spirit of deep sleep. It is in this context, in the very next verses, that this vision is compared to a sealed book that no one can read. God was telling them in advance what He would do to them and afterward to their enemies, but God also made clear that they would not understand it. They would not receive it. They would not believe. This is, in fact, the very message Isaiah was called to preach from the start.:

"He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand.’ Render the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes dim, Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.” Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered, “Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant, Houses are without people, and the land is utterly desolate, The Lord has removed men far away, And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land," (Isaiah 6:9-12).

Like men running around with a book they could not read, Israel would have God's words but not understand them. This is what the passage means. It has nothing to do with Muhammad, Joseph Smith, or a future holy book.

Final Considerations
Even if there were a passage in the Bible that predicted an illiterate or unlearned Prophet, that would not narrow the prophecy down to Muhammad or Joseph Smith. There are all kinds of historical figures one might point to as illiterate or uneducated prophets. The very fact that both Islam and Mormonism boast of their unlearned prophets shows that unlearned prophets are not necessarily such a rare or miraculous thing. Sure, it would be a miracle if a literally illiterate man with absolutely no knowledge of reading or writing suddenly picked up a pen and wrote a complete book with his own hand. That, however, is not what these religions claim. Muhammad and Joseph Smith both recited stories, poems, and other passages orally and had more literate men write them down. There is nothing miraculous at all in the idea that a man who cannot read or write can still tell stories and recite poems orally. You don't have to be literate or educated to be eloquent, creative, or well spoken. You don't have to be able to read to be able to talk. While it is clear that Isaiah 29:11-12 is not predicting some future uneducated prophet, even if it were, it would take much more than that to show that the passage somehow supports one of these unbiblical religions.

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Trailblazer said:

Jesus was a Messiah and an Advocate....

Baha'u'llah was the Messiah of the last days, the Advocate and the Redeemer.

John 14:26 New International Version (NIV)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

So the Holy Spirit not the individual minds of the apostles taught them the gospel and revelations from Christ Jesus.

I do not believe that verse above is promising the Holy Spirit to the disciples, I believe it is referring to a future time when the Father would send the Holy Spirit to another man who would teach all things and remind everyone of everything Jesus said.

The Advocate/Comforter is a Title for the man who brings the Holy Spirit, but the Advocate/Comforter can also be thought of as the Holy Spirit since it is the Bounty of God that comforts people. God sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit when He sent Jesus. Then later God sent another Comforter in Jesus' name.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Church teaching is that the Comforter and Spirit of truth are the Holy Spirit that was sent to the disciples at Pentecost.

Acts 2:1-4 New International Version (NIV)
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

That is true, the Holy Spirit came to them on the day of Pentecost, but that does not mean that the verses in John 14, 15, and 16 are referring to the Day of Pentecost.

In that same chapter in which we find the Pentecost account, we have this account that indicates the Holy Spirit was to be sent by God AGAIN in the last days.:

Acts 2:17-21 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

All he prophecies in the verses above have been fulfilled and they are the same prophecies that are given by Jesus in other verses that are noted below. This is the evidence that shows us that the Son of man has already returned.

Rev 6:12-13 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mark 13:24-26”But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

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InvestigateTruth said:

God speaks to people with the language, expressions and cultures they are familiar with. Moses appeared among people who were familiar with the name Yahweh.
Muhammad appeared among Arabs who were familiar with the name Allah.
I dont see any problem there.

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Skywalker said:

The Messiah is referred to as a Mediator in Job.

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Skywalker said:

Bible verses that people say refer to Mohammed are taken out of context. Isaiah 29:11-12, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith | CARM.org

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Skywalker said:

The name of God in the Bible is Yahweh.

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Skywalker said:

The name of God in the Bible is Yahweh.

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Trailblazer said:

What's in a name? God is God by whatever name He might be called.

In the passage below, Baha'u'llah called God the Ancient of Days.

“No sooner did He reveal Himself, than all the people rose up against Him. By some He was denounced as one that hath uttered slanders against God, the Almighty, the Ancient of Days. Others regarded Him as a man smitten with madness, an allegation which I, Myself, have heard from the lips of one of the divines. Still others disputed His claim to be the Mouthpiece of God,”
Gleanings, p. 145

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What is the name of God the Father?
The scriptures do not give us a personal name that belongs distinctly to God the Father. In fact, the only person in the Trinity who is given a distinct personal name is God the Son, whose name is Jesus. Even this name is given to Him specifically because of the incarnation. God the Son was not called Jesus until He came in the flesh as the promised Messiah. Neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit are given distinct, personal names.

Some have argued that the Divine Name, YHWH (Yahweh, or Jehovah), is the name of the Father. This name, however, is not exclusively the Father's name. It is the name of the Triune God as a whole. The Father is called YHWH in places like Psalm 110:1

"The LORD [YHWH] says to my Lord [Adoni]: 'Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.'"

Hebrews 1:13 explains this verse as the Father (the LORD, or YHWH) speaking to the Son (the Lord, Adoni, or master). So the author of Hebrews plainly identifies the Father as YHWH. Yet, when Hebrews 1:10-12 quotes Psalm 102:25-27, it says the Psalm is talking about Jesus. The Psalm is clearly talking about YHWH. Jesus, therefore, is also YHWH. Hebrews 10:15-16 quotes Jeremiah 31:33 as being a direct quote from the Holy Spirit. It is, in fact, a direct quote from YHWH. So the Holy Spirit is also YHWH. Just looking at the book of Hebrews alone, we can see that YHWH is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Thus, YHWH is the name of the Triune God.

The Father does have titles used only of Him, like "The Ancient of Days" in Daniel 7. Often in the New Testament, the Father is simply called "God" while Jesus is called "the Lord," though this is a general principle rather than a strict rule. The Father is certainly called "the Lord" on occasion (such as Mark 13:20), and Jesus is called "God" in several passages (such as Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1). Ultimately one must pay careful attention to the context.

In the end, there is one God who exists in three persons, and those three persons share the one divine name of YHWH. That is the name of the Father, but it is also the name of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three persons, but one God with one Holy Name. The Father, therefore, is not given a separate personal name.

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firedragon said:

But since it means "the human one" why would it refer to a manifestation of God himself? If it is meant to address a manifestation of God, why would not use another phraseology?

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