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Biblical prophecies and statements. Are they about Jesus Christ or Bahaullah?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Why would one assume they are not.

I am the One,” He in another connection affirms, “Whom the tongue of Isaiah hath extolled, the One with Whose name both the Torah and the Evangel were adorned.” “The glory of Sinai hath hastened to circle round the Day-Spring of this Revelation, while from the heights of the Kingdom the voice of the Son of God is heard proclaiming: ‘Bestir yourselves, ye proud ones of the earth, and hasten ye towards Him.’ Carmel hath in this day hastened in longing adoration to attain His court, whilst from the heart of Zion there cometh the cry: ‘The promise of all ages is now fulfilled. That which had been announced in the holy writ of God, the Beloved, the Most High, is made manifest.’

Baha'u'llah seems to make it quite clear that He was.

Regards Tony

Baha'u'llah did not come to save us and to teach us how to live. Jesus did.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How did I misrepresent the Bahai faith? What basic understandings of the Bahai faith don't I have?

The source does not understand the Baha'i Faith, if you see the source does, or posted it thinking it has merit, then you have not yet understood the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Baha'u'llah made it clear he came for the Salvation of all Humanity and gave us the teachings to do so.

So your statement is not correct.

Regards Tony

Jesus didn't just come to save people from their sins but also to teach us how to live and so that we could come before God. Jesus is an Advocate Redeemer Mediator. That is why the Old Testament says the Messiah will be.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus didn't just come to save people from their sins but also to teach us how to live and so that we could come before God. Jesus is an Advocate Redeemer Mediator. That is why the Old Testament says the Messiah will be.

To which Bahá’u’lláh also was.

Jesus said he had more to say unto us and that he would return with a New Name, a name only those who that accepted, would see.

Regards Tony
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Bahá’u’lláh didn't agree with the Bible's concept of the Messiah as an Advocate and a Redeemer.
Bahaullah confirms any belief in Bible.

The site, also, says, Bahais don't agree with virgin birth. That is incorrect. They do.

How do you interpret Advocate and Redeemer though?

This is a quote from Bahaullah:


"Know thou that when the Son of Man [Jesus] yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened and the soul of the sinner sanctified…. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

Baha'i Faith and Christianity - Baha'is of the United States
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, it seems to me, Bahais accept the whole Bible. But Christians don't accept all of it.

I see it is a great bounty to be able to accept the Bible as a sure guide and the Quran as the Word of God and at the same time, also get to find the Light of God in all past scriptures.

One would have to ask, if that is not a great path to unity, how else will we find it?

Regards Tony
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Bahaullah confirms any belief in Bible.

The site, also, says, Bahais don't agree with virgin birth. That is incorrect. They do.

How do you interpret Advocate and Redeemer though?

This is a quote from Bahaullah:


"Know thou that when the Son of Man [Jesus] yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened and the soul of the sinner sanctified…. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

Baha'i Faith and Christianity - Baha'is of the United States

What's your question?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Bible says not to add or subtract to God's word.

Why do you think doctrines were made, like the Trinity and Absolution and child baptisim then? Would that not be men adding to the Bible?

Jesus said He had more to say and said the Spirit of Truth would guide us to all Truth.

Baha'u'llah is that Spirit of Truth, Christ returned as the Father.

Regards Tony
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Why do you think doctrines were made, like the Trinity and Absolution and child baptisim then? Would that not be men adding to the Bible?

Jesus said He had more to say and said the Spirit of Truth would guide us to all Truth.

Baha'u'llah is that Spirit of Truth, Christ returned as the Father.

Regards Tony

I don't agree with child baptism or a priest pretending to absolve people of their sins. Jesus said who can forgive sins but God only. Jesus saying he had more to say doesn't mean that there would be a second New Testament. That's would the Mormons and the Muslims teach. The Trinity doesn't have to be mentioned verbatim in the Bible. In Genesis says let us make man in our image.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If you want to understand a faith, first read their sources. Not the enemies. Cheers.
But if you want other people to misunderstand a faith so they will end up believing Christianity is superior, then you misrepresent that faith the way many Christian websites do, and you do it sneakily, hoping that nobody will notice.

On the other hand, a website that is entitled What's Wrong with Baha'i? is a dead giveaway. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, I cannot know anyone's motives, and it is more likely that most Christians who misrepresent the Baha'i Faith do it out of ignorance, because they really do not understand what the Baha'i Faith teaches.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Why do you think doctrines were made, like the Trinity and Absolution and child baptisim then? Would that not be men adding to the Bible?

Jesus said He had more to say and said the Spirit of Truth would guide us to all Truth.

Baha'u'llah is that Spirit of Truth, Christ returned as the Father.

Regards Tony

The Holy Spirit | CARM.org

The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is fully God. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, has a will, and can speak. He is alive. He is a person. He is not particularly visible in the Bible because His ministry is to bear witness of Jesus (John 15:26).

Some cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses say that the Holy Spirit is nothing more than a force (Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 406-407). This is false. If the Holy Spirit were merely a force, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11).

The truth is that the Holy Spirit is a person the same as the Father and the Son are within the Trinity.

His Names His Attributes Symbols of Sins Against Power in
Christ's Life

God
Acts 5:3-4 Eternal
Heb. 9:14 Dove
Matt. 3:16 Blasphemy
Matt. 12:31 Conceived of
Matt. 1:18, 20
Lord
2 Cor. 3:18 Omnipotent
Luke 1:35 Wind
Acts 2:1-4 Resist (Unbelief)
Acts 7:51 Baptism
Matt. 3:16
Spirit
1 Cor. 2:10 Omnipresent
Psalm 139:7-10 Fire
Acts 2:3 Insult
Heb. 10:29 Led by
Luke 4:1
Spirit of God
1 Cor. 3:16 Will
1 Cor. 12:11 ***** Lied to
Acts 5:3 Filled with Power
Luke 4:14, 18
Spirit of Truth
John 15:26 Loves
Rom. 15:30 ***** Grieved
Eph. 4:30 Witness of Jesus
John 15:26
Eternal Spirit
Heb. 9:14 Speaks
Acts 8:29; 13:2 ***** Quench
1 Thess. 5:19 Raised Jesus
Rom. 8:11


The Works of the Holy Spirit
Access to God, Eph. 2:18 Inspires prayer, Eph. 6:18; Jude 20
Anoints for Service, Luke 4:18 Intercedes, Rom. 8:26
Assures, Rom. 8:15-16; Gal. 4:6 Interprets Scripture, 1 Cor. 2:1, 14;
Eph. 1:17
Authors Scripture, 2 Pet. 1:20-21 Leads, Rom. 8:14
Baptizes, John 1:23-34; 1 Cor. 12:13-14 Liberates, Rom. 8:2
Believers Born of, John 3:3-6 Molds Character, Gal. 5:22-23
Calls and Commissions, Acts 13:24; 20:28 Produces fruit, Gal. 5:22-23
Cleanses, 1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Pet. 1:2 Empowers Believers, Luke 24:49
Convicts of sin, John 16:9, 14 Raises from the dead, Rom. 8:11
Creates, Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4 Regenerates, Titus 3:5
Empowers, 1 Thess. 1:5 Sanctifies, Rom. 15:16
Fills, Acts 2:4; 4:29-31; 5:18-20 Seals, Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30
Gives gifts, I Cor. 12:8-11 Strengthens, Eph. 3:16; Acts 1:8; 2:4;
1 Cor. 2:4
Glorifies Christ, John 16:14 Teaches, John 14:26
Guides in truth, John 16:13 Testifies of Jesus, John 15:26
Helps our weakness, Rom. 8:26 Victory over flesh, Rom. 8:2-4; Gal. 4:6
Indwells believers, Rom. 8:9-14; Gal. 4:6 Worship helper, Phil. 3:3
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Christ bringing the Messages of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

Jesus did not teach Islam. Does John 14:16 predict the coming of Muhammad? | CARM.org

Does John 14:16 predict the coming of Muhammad?


by Ryan Turner
12/24/09


“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever (John 14:16).”

The Muslim Argument
Muslims argue that the above passage is a prophecy about Muhammad. They argue this from a verse in the Quran, “O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God . . . giving glad tidings of an Apostle to come after me. Whose name shall be Ahmad," (Surah 61:6, Yusuf Ali's translation, emphasis added).

The alleged equivalent for Ahmad (“praised one”) in Arabic is periclytos ("praised one") in Greek. However, periclytos does not even occur in John 14:16. Instead, the Greek word paraclete ("helper") occurs. Therefore, in order to support their argument, Muslims have to argue that the text of John has been corrupted.1

The Christian Response
First, there is absolutely no ancient textual evidence among all of the over 5,600 Greek manuscripts to place the word periclytos (“praised one”) in place of paraclete (“helper”).2 For a Muslim to argue that the correct reading should be periclytos instead of paraclete, shows his lack of understanding of the actual Greek text and the reliability of the copying of the New Testament.

Second, in the same passage, Jesus explicitly identified the “Helper” as the Holy Spirit: “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send, will teach you,” (John 14:26). Therefore, with all due respect, the Muslim argument is already defeated. Third, this “Helper” was given to Jesus’ apostles (the “you” in John 14:16), not to Arabs living over 550 years later! It was given to those who “have been with . . . [him] from the beginning” (John 15:27; cf. Acts 1:22; Luke 1:1-2). However, Muhammad was not one of Jesus’ apostles.

Fourth, this “Helper” was to abide with them “forever” (John 16), but Muhammad has been dead for over thirteen centuries! Fifth, Jesus told the disciples, “You know Him [the Helper]” (v. 17), but the apostles did not know Muhammad. He was not born until over 500 years later! Sixth, Jesus also told the disciples that the Helper would be “in you” (v. 17). How Muhammad could be “in” the disciples stretches all credibility. This reference of being "in" the disciples clearly is a reference to the Holy Spirit’s role of dwelling inside believers as the context of John (John 14:16-26) and the rest of the New Testament (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30) indicates.

Seventh, Jesus said that the Helper would be sent “in My [Jesus’] name” (John 14:26). However, no Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent in Jesus’ name. Eighth, the Helper whom Jesus would send would not “speak on His own authority” (John 16:13). However, Muhammad constantly testifies of himself. For example, in Surah 33:40, Muhammad says of himself, “Muhammad is . . . The Apostle of God, And the Seal of the Prophets.” Ninth, the Helper would “glorify” Jesus (John 16:14). How would Muhammad actually be glorifying Jesus if Muhammad is the last (and the sealer) of the prophets? He really would not be “glorifying” an earlier, inferior prophet like Jesus.

Tenth, and finally, Jesus said that the Helper would come in “not many days” (Acts 1:5), but Muhammad did not come for almost 600 years! Since the Helper is the Holy Spirit, He did come merely 40 days later (Acts 1:5; 2:1ff).

Therefore, given the above evidence, the Holy Spirit clearly is the Helper in John 14:16, not Muhammad.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The iniquity of us all was laid upon Him verse is talking about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. Jesus was the Suffering Servant. Almah is a reference to Jesus being born of a virgin. Daniel was seen with a being who looked like the Son of God.
The authors of the Gospels were certainly aware of all those passages and had them in mind when they wrote their works, yes.

... but this tells us nothing about the intent of the writers of the Tanakh.

The Old Testament mentions the Trinity in Daniel 9:24-27.
Sure it does.


The Messiah in the Old Testament isn't the political figure man who Jewish theology believes in, he's an Advocater Redeemer Messiah.
In the Christian reinterpretation of the Tanakh, that's certainly true, but again: this tells us nothing about the intent of the writers of the Tanakh.
 
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