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The Image Of God

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Didn't God actually walk through the Garden in the cool of the day? So why wouldn't that be the literal image of God that humans are made after?........................
Was it an actual literal walking but as Genesis 6:9 says that Noah walked with the true God, and at Genesis 48:15 that Abraham and Isaac did walk.....
Also, please notice at Genesis 3:8 because it was God's voice heard ' walking ', so to speak. Adam heard the sound of God's voice.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures just as God is. Our true image has nothing to do with our physical appearance. Perhaps image is no more than a reflection of who one really is.
Now, one can picture an image of what one believes God is, based on all their knowledge and beliefs of God, however this image is lacking in truth and pales in comparison to an actual encounter.That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Adam started out a spiritual person being fashioned in God's image or likeness. God's main attributes of: love, justice, wisdom and mercy
When Adam chose to break God's law then Adam was No longer a spiritual person, but returned to dust where Adam started - Genesis 3:19
Adam was never offered heaven as a stepping stone, but eternal life right here on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample.
As Jesus promised that humble mild meek people would inherit (Not Heaven) but inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5.
Earth, for most people, will be their everlasting home - Psalms 115:16
This starts with the figurative humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 and then the resurrected ones back to live life on Earth.
ALL the resurrections Jesus preformed were healthy 'physical' resurrections.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction of what he will be doing earth wide in the future under his 1,000-year reign over Earth.
This is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
People want to insist that the use of the word "image" in Genesis means something entirely different from the way they would typically use the word in everyday conversation. I don't get why this is.
probably due to the fact it was not written in everyday english..... and the ones who wrote it said there was lots more to it than meets the eye....so much so that the people of the time, of them all, most never got what it meant either.....it is written in that way for that purpose.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
probably due to the fact it was not written in everyday english..... and the ones who wrote it said there was lots more to it than meets the eye....so much so that the people of the time, of them all, most never got what it meant either.....it is written in that way for that purpose.
Well it wasn't written in any kind of English, "everyday English" or some other kind of English. But it the word was translated into English as "image." If you want to insist that it means something else, I'm not going to try to stop you. I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume that if it says, "image," it probably means "image."
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Was it an actual literal walking but as Genesis 6:9 says that Noah walked with the true God, and at Genesis 48:15 that Abraham and Isaac did walk.....
Also, please notice at Genesis 3:8 because it was God's voice heard ' walking ', so to speak. Adam heard the sound of God's voice.
The ends people will go to to insist that the Bible doesn't really mean what it says. :rolleyes:
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Didn't God actually walk through the Garden in the cool of the day? So why wouldn't that be the literal image of God that humans are made after?

Who gets to spiritualize everything in the Bible and why?

It's just that the Bible God is an invisible spirit whom no human has seen. If a human in the Bible is said to have seen God then God must have take on a visible form for the occasion imo
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Maybe not everything! But I have heard things interpreted spiritually when it's very easy to see it as literal and physical.
Yes, that's true, but I find it to be the same or even more so the other way around; the literal favored before the spiritual
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just a comment.


DUELING INTERPRETATIONS FROM DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS AND DIFFERENT RELIGIONS

Part of what is making this conversation more complicated is that not everyone is speaking of the same Christianity of the same time period.

For example, @Katzpur, @osgart, @samtonga43, etc seem to be describing an earlier, more original and more literal Judeo-Christianity from the earlier periods when “image” (εικον – lxx) meant image.

Others, such as @Hermit Philosopher, @Saint Frankenstein, @MNoBody, @URAVIP2ME etc. seem to be describing the interpretation from the later more modern and less literal Judeo-Christianity from a much later period of time when “image” became metaphorical.


For example, if the O.P. could have asked what was meant by the “image” of God to the early Judeo-Christians of say the first few centuries then “image” actually still meant “image”, a visual reference.

If the O.P. could have asked what was the most common meaning for “image of God” in say, the 1800s, then “image of God” was frequently metaphorized into non-visual Characteristics and often, was no longer a visual “image”.

For example, It would have been more simple if the O.P. had asked what the meaning was to the earliest Christians or to what the meaning was to most modern Christianities. The answers would, obviously, have been different since they are not the same religions with the same interpretations.


Clear
φιδρτζω
 
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samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Just a comment.


DUELING INTERPRETATIONS FROM DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS AND DIFFERENT RELIGIONS

Part of what is making this conversation more complicated is that not everyone is speaking of the same Christianity of the same time period.

For example, @Katzpur, @osgart, @samtonga43, etc seem to be describing an earlier, more original and more literal Judeo-Christianity from the earlier periods when “image” (εικον – lxx) meant image.

Others, such as @Hermit Philosopher, @Saint Frankenstein, @MNoBody, @URAVIP2ME etc. seem to be describing the interpretation from the later more modern and less literal Judeo-Christianity from a much later period of time when “image” became metaphorical.


For example, if the O.P. could have asked what was meant by the “image” of God to the early Judeo-Christians of say the first few centuries then “image” actually still meant “image”, a visual reference.

If the O.P. could have asked what was the most common meaning for “image of God” in say, the 1800s, then “image of God” was frequently metaphorized into non-visual Characteristics and often, was no longer a visual “image”.

For example, It would have been more simple if the O.P. had asked what the meaning was to the earliest Christians or to what the meaning was to most modern Christianities. The answers would, obviously, have been different since they are not the same religions with the same interpretations.


Clear
φιδρτζω

I think you mis-read me.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Adam started out a spiritual person being fashioned in God's image or likeness. God's main attributes of: love, justice, wisdom and mercy
When Adam chose to break God's law then Adam was No longer a spiritual person, but returned to dust where Adam started - Genesis 3:19
Adam was never offered heaven as a stepping stone, but eternal life right here on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample.
As Jesus promised that humble mild meek people would inherit (Not Heaven) but inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5.
Earth, for most people, will be their everlasting home - Psalms 115:16
This starts with the figurative humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 and then the resurrected ones back to live life on Earth.
ALL the resurrections Jesus preformed were healthy 'physical' resurrections.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction of what he will be doing earth wide in the future under his 1,000-year reign over Earth.
This is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....


Stories written by mankind will never translate into reality. Poof creation and the stories around it are no more than stories.

We are all Spiritual beings in our True Natures. I have Direct experience to this. WE are not these physical shells that traps one within the physical laws of this universe. These physical bodies and this physical universe are Perfect for learning. That's why they exist at all. On the other hand, you aren't going to want to take them with you.

Now, you can look around hoping and praying to be saved, however this is not going to happen. Why not?? There is nothing wrong with this world. You might not realize this but this world is the Fix. I would say it's a lot better solution than frying your children.

I realize there is so much that you have not Discovered yet. Everyone moves forward. Given enough lessons and time, your view will clear!! The good news is that there is no time limit on learning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
What is meant by the term Image of God? Does God have an image in your opinion? Is the term more comprehensive than we can imagine? What are your thoughts?

View attachment 45561

Most would take the 'image of God' not to mean something of flesh and blood but the good elements of our own nature, such as love, forgiveness, need for companionship etc..Otherwise why would the creation feel any need to seek after God?
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What I am seeing in many of the comments is the tendency to offer a modern interpretation of Adam being created in the “image” of God and the tendency toward metaphorization of this word “image”. In early Christianity the word “image” still meant “image” and the sentence of God making man in his own image is not particularly metaphorical.


DIFFERING INTERPRETATIONS OF THE TEXT : MODERN VS EARLY CHRISTIANITY

Genesis 1:27 “And God made man. According to the image of God he made him….”
Και εποιησεν ο θεος τον ανθρωπον κατ
εικονα θεου εποιησεν αυτον αυτον...


The word used for “Image” is icon (Greek “εικονα” or english "Icon").
An “Icon” (εικονα) was a visual likeness.

A picture on the wall is an Icon.
To make man according to our image simply means that Adam was to be made in the visual likeness of God and his Son.

Early Christianity did not need to produce tenuous metaphorical connections but could let the words mean what they seem to mean.


The greek LXX uses the term “εικονα“ (“Icon” in english) for “image” of God.

Koine Greek used “εικονα“ (“Icon” in english) for “image” of God. This was the term for actual, physical, visual descriptions of individuals in official documents.

For examples:
In BGU IV. (1 B.C.), “εικονα” (icon/image) is used to describe actual visual characteristics of a female slave (ης τα ετη και αι εικονις θποκεινται).
In P. Tebt I 32:21 (approx. 145 b.c.?) one finds this same usage as a visual characteristic as well.
In P Ryl II. 156.33 (approx first century a.d.) it describes multiple individuals and their physical appearance (εικονα).

Early sacred texts use εικονα in an actual, visual context as well.
For example, when Barnabas explained that though “… Moses had commanded, “You shall not have a cast or a carved image for your God, nevertheless he himself made one in order to show them a symbol of Jesus.” (Epistle of Barnabas 12:6), this is an εικονα / icon or image he speaks of and it is clearly a visual and physical “image” and not a metaphor.

The point is that “image” in this sense was a word used to describe an actual, real, image and is not metaphorical or symbolic in vernacular usage.
I can't think of any single early koine greek example of εικονα that is clearly used in early texts in a metaphorical sense and not a visual representation. Can anyone else on the forum think of a single example? Even one?

I think the modern tendency is to use εικονα metaphorically as a mechanism to try to make the early texts harmonize to personal modern beliefs rather than to harmonize modern beliefs to what the texts said.

This repeated process of creating metaphors to explain the many similar disagreements between text and belief partially explains the multiplication of theories among Christian movements. In fact, the process of producing different metaphors encourages schisms and splits based on differing metaphors and theories while the Christianity that takes this specific example at face value can use such descriptions in the common vernacular and obvious meaning WITHOUT the same problem of coherence and their inherent coherence and harmony decreases schisms on this specific point (though schisms may occur on other points).

This process of “metaphorizing” texts repeats itself multiple times in multiple ways on multiple points of doctrine, in order to create coherence between text and belief. At some point, such spiritualizing and metaphorizing of the text may become a reflex and a standard refuge to which one finds sheltering explanations for difficult passages. It is however, difficult to make any firm rule regarding what is actual and what is metaphor (since metaphors certainly do exist in early texts…).


EARLY TEXTUAL USEAGE OF EIKONA / IMAGE WERE, USUALLY A VISUAL DESCRIPTION

In the case of Adam being made in the εικονα, icon or "image" of God, it is clear in much of the early sacred texts, this was not a metaphorical doctrine in early Christianity.

For example, an early Christian text describes a clear physical/visual meaning to the use of εικονα . / “image” when

God formed Adam with His holy hands, in His own Image and Likeness and when the angels saw Adam's glorious appearance they were greatly moved by the beauty thereof. …. “ Cave of treasures text

Contextual descriptions in such texts are clearly describing an actual visual appearance of Adam before his “fall”.

Such description don’t just use εικονα (or "image") as an indication of visual context, but also forms of greek ομοιωμα (or "likeness") are often also used in such descriptions of Adams’ appearance. Ομοιωμα is distinguished from εικων since it implies an archetype, the “likeness” or “form”.

The great Greek linguist Moulton, uses the example of ομιοωμα, “as one egg is like another” (The eggs are not exactly the same, but so close to the same that one may not tell the difference in his example from OGIS 669.62 (from first century a.d.). This is another “visual” context since, In other, non-visual contexts, one may see ομολογεω used, indicating two individuals simply “agree with” each another (without the indication of a visual “sameness”).

A good example of both words being used in such a context is from the early Christian text Life of Adam and Eve (Vita) 41:2 and 42:1 when Adam is told : “…God blew into you the breath of life and your countenance and likeness were made in the image of God….” And “the Lord God said, ‘Behold Adam! I have made you in our image and likeness. Life of Adam and Eve (Vita) 41:2 and 42:1

These two terms forms of εικονα and ομοιωμα became ingrained not only in texts, but into the oral liturgies and prayers of early Christianity. For example, in one Hellenistic Synagogal Prayer, the prayer reads :

“...you created, saying, “let us make man according to our image and likeness”... 24 But when man was disobedient, You took away his deserved life. 25 You did not make it disappear absolutely, but for a time, ...27 You have loosed the boundary of death, You who are the Maker of life for the dead, through Jesus Christ, our hope!(aposCon 7.34.1-8)

Such examples often seen in early textual traditions are so obviously and consistently a physical, visual context that one cannot mistake some descriptions for metaphor.

For example from Jewish Haggadah repeats this same theme of physical appearance :

“When Adam opened his eyes the first time, and beheld the world about him, he broke into praise of God, “How great are your works, O Lord!” But his admiration for the world surrounding him did not exceed the admiration all creatures conceived for Adam. They took him to be their creator, and they all came to offer his adoration... ” (The Haggadah)

Whether early traditions are correct or not, still, they did conceive of Adam having the same image (εικονα) and likeness (ομοιωμα) as his creator.

In fact, the most common post c.e. tradition that is common to all three Abrahamic religions (i.e. early Judaism and Christianity AND early Islam) IS the tradition concerning the fall of Lucifer, and it concerns the honoring of Adam, as the image and likeness of God. Though the story/tradition exists in multiple texts common to all three Abrahamic traditions, Christian Vita is a good example of this genre of literature.

When God blew into you the breath of life and your countenance and likeness were made in the image of God, Michael brought you and made (us) honor you in the sight of God, and the Lord God said, ‘Behold Adam! I have made you in our image and likeness...’ (Vita) 12:1-2, 13:13, 14:2-3; 15:1-3; 16:1-3

My point is that "image" and "likeness" used in Genesis 1:27 (LXX) were not generally used in any metaphorical sense in any common usage anciently.

The ancient Christians had a different interpretation than modern Christians on many points. One difference was the early Christian belief that the “image of God”, still mean the “image of God” rather than the later metaphorical interpretations. THIS is why I suggested the O.P. ask about the meaning of "image" and be more specific to the time period of Christian worldview since interpretations have changed over the years.

Clear
φυακδρω
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And yet, today, nobody seems to care what the words meant when they were actually written.

I think that one problem with having historical insight is that we all are oriented to our own present just as we are oriented to our own language.
.
When I tell my kids about my youth, trying to negotiate a trip for example, they ask why I didn't simply use my cell phone and call someone or use my GPS to google maps to guide a trip. I'm not sure I can classify their response as a bad attitude, but simply that they are not oriented to a pre-cell phone and pre-gps world they simply don't understand.

I think history is also difficult because our tendency is to imagine that our present religion and our present interpretation and religious worldviews are the same as early Christians, partly because we are using a version of text that they use. The tendency is to assume that because we are reading a version of their texts, that they came away with the same interpretation and worldviews and beliefs that we have.

I am sure that the inability to think historically is more complicated that this, but it feels like history is simply disorienting to many religionists.
The early Judeo-Christian texts are, to a certain extent, "foreign" and the language and symbolism "unfamiliar. It is, I think, a lot like traveling into a different country and it takes a while to gain ones orientation and understand the differences in language and belief and customs.




Clear
σετωειω
 
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PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
In early Christianity the word “image” still meant “image” and the sentence of God making man in his own image is not particularly metaphorical.
In early Christianity this "image" was definitely seen as Son/Christ.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
In early Christianity this "image" was definitely seen as Son/Christ.
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)

Yes, being first born of all creation, Jesus was the image, the reflection of his God, his Father.
Jesus perfectly reflected God's qualities of Love, Justice, Wisdom and Mercy, and to varying degrees so can we.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
In early Christianity this "image" was definitely seen as Son/Christ.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)
If this "image" was Christ, then what does Genesis mean when it says that we are created in His image?
 
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