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The Holy Foursome?

Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I see the Father Jesus the Christ was talking about, is God, as revealed through the Manifestation of Baha'u'llah.

We have no direct knowledge of God by via the Holy Spirit and that Holy Spirit is all the Names of God, which God sends in all the Names of the Messengers.

I see that was why Muhammed was seen as the seal of the Prophets after Christ known as the Son of God. All the Messages up to Muhammad were preparing us for the Day of God, when the Father would be with us, God's Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven, etc.

Baha'u'llah which means the Glory of God, or Glory of the Lord, came as the Father, Baha'u'llah is Christ in the promised New Name, who brought the New Jerusalem and now sends the law out from Zion from the Arc of the Covernant from Mt Carmel.
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The Law and Word of God going out of Zion and Jerusalem is a prophecy in the OT (Isa 2:3, Micah 4:2) which applies to Jesus since His Word and Law did go out from Zion and Jerusalem. Mt Carmel is neither Zion nor Jerusalem (new or old).

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
What you can consider Brian2, if you so wish to, is how did both the Islamic Faith and the Baha'i Faith come forever part of the promise of Israel, if they are not of God. How is it they for with Bible Prophecy, just as easy as Christianity, if they are not of God.

Regards Tony
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As with the above Isa 2:3, Micah 4:2 prophecy above Baha'u'llah takes what is written about Jesus and claims it for himself. But just as it did not work for Isa 2:3/Micah 4:2, it does not work for the other prophecies from the OT which he claims for himself. It is easy enough to see, just hard for a Baha'i to accept.
Baha'i denies what the Bible tells us about the Kingdom of God and the rule of Jesus and what the Bible tells us about the return of Jesus and replaces it with a fake Christ and fake Kingdom and wants to put an end to everlasting Gospel of Christ and the Lordship of Jesus which goes on forever over all of creation.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
That Christians are united by the Holy Spirit into one Church, one Body of Christ.
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Ok, I think that is not bad. I think being one with God means that person has same will as God has. In that way disciples of Jesus are one with God and the same is with Jesus.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Brian2 said:
Unfortunately Baha'u'llah has eliminated the Gospel message of Jesus the Christ for Baha'is, for this dispensation.
But we can be friends.
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Friends we can be, not a problem with me at all.

As I friend I will offer advice re your comments. I also offer this advice to many Christains that have said the same thing you have offered. As Christains you may have to consider that there is no way that you can take the Message of Jesus the Christ away from me or any Baha'i. The message of the Bible is in our heart and soul and can never be eliminated.

So as Christ is with all Baha'i, and all Humanity, may Christ be with you in the tests and trails we all face. Regards Tony
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
1213 said:
Ok, I think that is not bad. I think being one with God means that person has same will as God has. In that way disciples of Jesus are one with God and the same is with Jesus.
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One day we may have the same will as God, but not yet. Christians do not even have the same will as each other.
Christians are one in that we are all joined to Christ through His Spirit in each of us, and so we are one Body of Christ, Temple of God, but we certainly are not perfect yet even if we are united to each other and to Jesus.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Friends we can be, not a problem with me at all.

As I friend I will offer advice re your comments. I also offer this advice to many Christains that have said the same thing you have offered. As Christains you may have to consider that there is no way that you can take the Message of Jesus the Christ away from me or any Baha'i. The message of the Bible is in our heart and soul and can never be eliminated.

So as Christ is with all Baha'i, and all Humanity, may Christ be with you in the tests and trails we all face. Regards Tony
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Thanks for that.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
1213 said:
I think that is sad, if true. But don’t they pray:

…Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
Matt. 6:10
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No it is not sad, it is just the way things are at the moment because us humans have not been made perfect yet and our human desires and mistakes in our thinking lead us to want things that God does not want and to even pray for those things.
In that respect we have to pray "Let your will be done..........." instead of "Let my will be done......."
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
Eddi said:
What if the Christian Godhead had four dimensions?
  1. The Father
  2. The Son
  3. The Holy Spirit
  4. ...and something else???
How would this change theology?

What could possibly be the fourth element?

I suppose it would make this redundant:

View attachment 44842
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Wouldn't the fourth element be us considering that the Son commanded us to become "one" with Him and God?
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
Brian2 said:
I don't think it is a command, and it is that we are one with each other just as the Father and Son are one.
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"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:21-24) (Bold and Italics added)

Jesus said these things during His Intercessory Prayer - which He made in the presence of His disciples on their behalf - so I believe that it is clear that He wants His disciples to become one with each other and with Himself and the Father and He wanted His disciples to know it and the Father to help them achieve it.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Zaha Torte said:
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:21-24) (Bold and Italics added)

Jesus said these things during His Intercessory Prayer - which He made in the presence of His disciples on their behalf - so I believe that it is clear that He wants His disciples to become one with each other and with Himself and the Father and He wanted His disciples to know it and the Father to help them achieve it.
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It does not say one with Jesus and the Father. It is because the Father and the Son, in the person of the Holy Spirit are in Christians, that we are one and are being perfected individually and corporately. We are in Christ and are the body of Christ and are being built into the perfect Temple of God.
2Cor 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
Brian2 said:
It does not say one with Jesus and the Father. It is because the Father and the Son, in the person of the Holy Spirit are in Christians, that we are one and are being perfected individually and corporately. We are in Christ and are the body of Christ and are being built into the perfect Temple of God.
2Cor 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.
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I agree with what you said up here.

I believe you disagreement comes from our understanding of the nature of the Father and the Son and their relationship.

I believe that they are two separate and distinct individuals that work in perfect tandem.

I believe that we are the children of God who can grow up to be just like Him. Working with Him in perfect tandem.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Zaha Torte said:
I agree with what you said up here.

I believe you disagreement comes from our understanding of the nature of the Father and the Son and their relationship.

I believe that they are two separate and distinct individuals that work in perfect tandem.

I believe that we are the children of God who can grow up to be just like Him. Working with Him in perfect tandem.
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Jesus the man grew in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and with men. (Luke 2:52) He kept doing what was right and did not sin. Jesus has 2 natures however, God nature as the eternal Son of God and servant nature as a human. Jesus actually has not changed in His likeness to God all the way through His earthly life.
Heb 13: 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
We certainly grow to be like the Lord Jesus in character as humans and eventually as transformed and perfected humans.
2Cor 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
We of course have only one nature, our human nature, and are given only a taste of the divine nature by the Holy Spirit in us, joining us with Christ to become His body and changing us through the renewing of our minds.
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
1Cor 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.

We are born again in spirit now as new creations and grow to be like Christ. I do not see in the Bible that we become any more than that. We are always creatures who are adopted as God's children.
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
Brian2 said:
Jesus the man grew in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and with men. (Luke 2:52) He kept doing what was right and did not sin. Jesus has 2 natures however, God nature as the eternal Son of God and servant nature as a human. Jesus actually has not changed in His likeness to God all the way through His earthly life.
Heb 13: 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
We certainly grow to be like the Lord Jesus in character as humans and eventually as transformed and perfected humans.
2Cor 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
We of course have only one nature, our human nature, and are given only a taste of the divine nature by the Holy Spirit in us, joining us with Christ to become His body and changing us through the renewing of our minds.
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
1Cor 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.

We are born again in spirit now as new creations and grow to be like Christ. I do not see in the Bible that we become any more than that. We are always creatures who are adopted as God's children.
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I agree with everything you just said - but I again need to point back to the Lord's Intercessory Prayer about His disciples becoming "one in" the Father and the Son and therefore "made perfect in one" (John 17:21-24) - as well Paul's claim that we are the "children of God" and therefore can become "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:16:17), John's claim that we are the "sons of God" and that when we see Him "we shall be like him" (1 John 3:2) and the Lord's command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)

I believe that we have the potential given us to become perfect as God is perfect and to become like Him and even become one with Him - and this is all accomplished through the grace of our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ and His willingness to share His inheritance and authority with us.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Zaha Torte said:
I agree with everything you just said - but I again need to point back to the Lord's Intercessory Prayer about His disciples becoming "one in" the Father and the Son and therefore "made perfect in one" (John 17:21-24) - as well Paul's claim that we are the "children of God" and therefore can become "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:16:17), John's claim that we are the "sons of God" and that when we see Him "we shall be like him" (1 John 3:2) and the Lord's command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)

I believe that we have the potential given us to become perfect as God is perfect and to become like Him and even become one with Him - and this is all accomplished through the grace of our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ and His willingness to share His inheritance and authority with us.
Click to expand...

I believe we have the potential to become perfect (when perfected at the resurrection) and become more Christ like in this life also. We do however remain creations and servants and adopted children who but taste of the divine nature in our createdness (or even re created ness) and servanthood.
No doubt we will be given authority over things, some over much and others over a little, but we remain servants of the true God and King and Lord forever.

Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming.…
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
Brian2 said:
I believe we have the potential to become perfect (when perfected at the resurrection) and become more Christ like in this life also. We do however remain creations and servants and adopted children who but taste of the divine nature in our createdness (or even re created ness) and servanthood.
No doubt we will be given authority over things, some over much and others over a little, but we remain servants of the true God and King and Lord forever.

Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming.…
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I agree. We have the potential to become perfect and more like Christ (who is the express image of the Father) and that we would be servants of God the Father and His Christ.
 
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