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Why don't they just leave it to Allah?

JustGeorge

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Zaha Torte said:
Physical fighting is violence that often leads to death.

And I quoted from the Sahih Bukhari 6924 when Muhammad said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me"

As long as they worship God as Muhammad commanded they could keep their property and their lives.

Meaning - if they someone did not agree with Muhammad - he would either kill them or take their stuff or both.
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Is that a Hadith? I believe(and I could be wrong)that the Hadith are open to interpretation.

There is more to the idea of to 'fight' than just broad killing. It can certainly lead to death, but doesn't always. And in some cases, fighting is through a totally different action. If I say "I'm fighting my parking ticket in the courts", it doesn't mean I'm going to walk into court and attempt to beat up the judge.
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
agorman said:
I think those suras (and many "stone him for doing X" verses in the Old Testament too) prove that people shouldn't believe everything they read is 100% true and trustable. Or at least if it's all true, maybe it's encoded somehow.
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Muslims claim that the Qu'ran has remained unchanged since it was written and is the exact teachings of Muhammad.

I don't believe it to be true but it does proves that Muslims who decide to "kill the infidels" are not misguided - they are merely following the teachings of Muhammad.
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
JustGeorge said:
Is that a Hadith? I believe(and I could be wrong)that the Hadith are open to interpretation.

There is more to the idea of to 'fight' than just broad killing. It can certainly lead to death, but doesn't always. And in some cases, fighting is through a totally different action. If I say "I'm fighting my parking ticket in the courts", it doesn't mean I'm going to walk into court and attempt to beat up the judge.
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Muhammad often taught his people not be reliant on the Qu'ran alone and he claimed in the Qu'ran that God wanted people to obey Muhammad and accept his ruling.

His commands and rulings were recorded in the hadith.
 
JustGeorge

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not a Muslim, so I could certainly be mistaken, but I thought it was that the Qu'ran was to be followed first and foremost. The Hadiths were recommendations, not commands(if I have it right).

Do you have any verses from the Qu'ran where Allah gives full authority to Mohammed?
 
agorman

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Zaha Torte said:
Muslims claim that the Qu'ran has remained unchanged since it was written and is the exact teachings of Muhammad.
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I remember I've read somewhere that the Qu'ran did change. The original says for example that martyrs will meet 72 raisins instead of 72 virgins in Paradise. The German scholar who discovered this is now in hiding, because his life is in danger after that.
 
Zaha Torte

Zaha Torte

Active Member
agorman said:
I remember I've read somewhere that the Qu'ran did change. The original says for example that martyrs will meet 72 raisins instead of 72 virgins in Paradise. The German scholar who discovered this is now in hiding, because his life is in danger after that.
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Whoa. Raisins? Now that is a religion I could get behind. :p
 
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