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Creation of Hell

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?
2
did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?

That is because Hell is lack of Heaven.

In the creation of all that is good, for us to know it is good, then the lack of all good must also be possible.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Regards Tony
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
That is because Hell is lack of Heaven.

In the creation of all that is good, for us to know it is good, then the lack of all good must also be possible.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Regards Tony
but it also says even the darkness is as light to you. so really darkness is nothing more than ignorance, lack of knowledge of the divine; which is hell/confusion = babel?


https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16360#v12
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I suspect the Christian understanding of a physical Hell is from a parable from Jesus.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

As a parable, I don't think it was meant to be taken literally.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Hell and heaven are there because of duality which is in and of itself an apparent part of existence. The temporary experiences of heaven and hell happen as a result of how we lived our lives while we had a physical body.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as heck, only heaven and earth. You either die, and go to naught, or you become nirvana and your remainder become part of nature once again. It's possible that this earth and our heaven become this sort of all positive duality where LOVE is God can COMPASSION is the Adam. As we made hell, and negativity into naught the earth is no longer subjected to being in the middle of love & hate, thus ending it negative portion.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I once was Earth as Hell. A place of eternal pain and suffering. Jesus came to Hell/Earth to offer a way out of Hell. To offer a path to leave Hell which we could not find on our own.

Here we are, stuck in Hell. Perhaps rebirth after rebirth for all eternity until we accept the Way of Jesus.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.
IMO:

Smart observation. God finished creation, and there was no Hell ... and it was good:D
 

JW Minister

Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?

so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?


The question should have been instead of
"Creation of Hell" is there a BURNING PLACE CALLED HELL

God is one who warns of disaster ,he has always sent prophets
to warn his people of trouble coming has he not.

2 chronicles 36
Jehovah the God of their forefathers kept warning them by means of his messengers, warning them again and again

Ezekiel 33
He heard the sound of the horn, but he did not heed the warning.

Noah warned of a flood was coming told by God

So that being the case is it reasonable for a God of Love to create a burning place called HELL where Adam if disobeyed him would burn for all eternity?
He would have created this burning place before creating Adam would he not to have it ready.

Does that make sense to have this horrible place ready to receive the first man Adam in case he sinned yet this God of warning never warned Adam of such a horrid place?


What God told Adam instead as recorded in Genesis;

King James Bible
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam knew what death was as animals died around him yet should God have also said here ;

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely burn in Hell fire

But he didn't because there is no such place the Churches teach of such a place with no scriptural support.Hell is defined as just the common grave

Hell Is Simply the Grave - Bible Research

This information is from a Google search not Jehovah's Witness material

Hell Is Simply the Grave
Hell is simply the grave, as taught in the Bible. Where do we go when we die? The Bible is very clear on this subject. Christ, the apostles, and the prophets teach that when a person dies they are asleep in a state of inactivity until the time of their resurrection

9. Hell Is Simply the Grave
The Grave Hell (Strong’s Concordance #7585) in the Hebrew translation meaning Sheol or “grave”.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
When people die, they sleep in the grave until the time of judgment.

Ecclesiastes 9:10
When people are dead, they have no thoughts or actions.

You would have to be alive to know youre burning ,yet the bible shows the dead are not conscious so this is yet another of hundreds of false teachings from the Churches of Christendom
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?
to be mortal is hell....of a sort.
embroiled in limitations exacerbated by men whom have been made upright, but stoop to many inventions in ignorance [to paraphrase ecclesiastes] probably due to the split personality disorder all men are afflicted with [an immortal coping with a mortal experience]
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.
so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?............
Very observant and good point ^ above^ about Genesis.
No mention of hell for Adam and Eve.
No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for anyone mentioned.
Simply ' returning ' to the dust where they started - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before.
Seems as if when King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire, that put in the flames.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever.
So, it is No wonder that 2 Peter 3:9 says to ' repent ' if we don't want to ' perish ' ( perish as in meaning being destroyed )
The wicked do Not fry or roast but are simply destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35.

In brief, biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead til Resurrection Day ( meaning Jesus coming 1,000 year day )
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?
IMV, it was created for Satan and his angels:

Matthew 25:41 ESV “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Matthew 25:41 ESV “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
I thought Jesus was possibly referring to you with that as I heard that your wife says you can be "really bad", but was she maybe referencing something else? :shrug:
 

JW Minister

Member
I thought Jesus was possibly referring to you with that as I heard that your wife says you can be "really bad", but was she maybe referencing something else? :shrug:


This 'FIRE" is refered to as .Ge·henʹna.

Jesus said:
It is better for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Ge·henʹna

What is the biblical
Gehenna is it the fires of hell? NO ,some preachers would have you believe so and that this was created for the Devil but the scriptures dont support this false teaching.

The Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jer 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jer 7:32; 19:6) There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.

Another reason is Rev says :

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast+ and the false prophet already were.

The wild beast and the false prophet were symbols representing something and not humans so how can a symbol be thrown into a fire,it just shows the book of Revelation was in symbols and the fire itself symbolized something not a literal fire
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?


Dear Fool

I think you worded it quite well, personally :)

I think of Hell as a [human] state of mind; an attitude. We choose it - often unconsciously, and we are rather good at spreading it around.

Humbly
Hermit
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
This 'FIRE" is refered to as .Ge·henʹna.

Jesus said:
It is better for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Ge·henʹna

What is the biblical
Gehenna is it the fires of hell? NO ,some preachers would have you believe so and that this was created for the Devil but the scriptures dont support this false teaching.

The Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jer 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jer 7:32; 19:6) There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.

Another reason is Rev says :

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast+ and the false prophet already were.

The wild beast and the false prophet were symbols representing something and not humans so how can a symbol be thrown into a fire,it just shows the book of Revelation was in symbols and the fire itself symbolized something not a literal fire
Well:
  • Matthew 5:22: "....whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into Gehenna."
  • Matthew 5:29: "....it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into Gehenna."
  • Matthew 5:30: "....better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into Gehenna."
  • Matthew 10:28: "....rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul [Greek: ψυχή] and body in Gehenna."
  • Matthew 18:9: "It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than with two eyes to be thrown into the Gehenna...."
  • Matthew 23:15: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you... make one proselyte...twice as much a child of Gehenna as yourselves."
  • Matthew 23:33, to the Pharisees: "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you to escape the sentence of Gehenna?"
  • Mark 9:43: "It is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into Gehenna into the unquenchable fire."
  • Mark 9:45: "It is better for you to enter life lame, than having your two feet, to be cast into Gehenna."
  • Mark 9:47: "It is better for you to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into Gehenna."
  • Luke 12:5: "....fear the One who, after He has killed has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear Him."
  • James 3:6: "And the tongue is a fire,...and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by Gehenna."
Now, do I personally believe in hell? No. But there is no way of denying that it is used in the NT as the above indicates. To put it another way, you can have your own opinions but not your own facts, and the word "Gehenna" is clearly used.

For more information, maybe read this: Gehenna - Wikipedia
 

JW Minister

Member
Well:
  • Matthew 5:22: "....whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into Gehenna."
  • Matthew 5:29: "....it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into Gehenna."
  • Matthew 5:30: "....better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into Gehenna."
  • Matthew 10:28: "....rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul [Greek: ψυχή] and body in Gehenna."
  • Matthew 18:9: "It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than with two eyes to be thrown into the Gehenna...."
  • Matthew 23:15: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you... make one proselyte...twice as much a child of Gehenna as yourselves."
  • Matthew 23:33, to the Pharisees: "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you to escape the sentence of Gehenna?"
  • Mark 9:43: "It is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into Gehenna into the unquenchable fire."
  • Mark 9:45: "It is better for you to enter life lame, than having your two feet, to be cast into Gehenna."
  • Mark 9:47: "It is better for you to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into Gehenna."
  • Luke 12:5: "....fear the One who, after He has killed has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear Him."
  • James 3:6: "And the tongue is a fire,...and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by Gehenna."
Now, do I personally believe in hell? No. But there is no way of denying that it is used in the NT as the above indicates. To put it another way, you can have your own opinions but not your own facts, and the word "Gehenna" is clearly used.

For more information, maybe read this: Gehenna - Wikipedia


Ok then why did Jesus use the term FIRE if its not literal as if Gehenna is a place of everlasting fire?
Bible times the most thorough means of destruction in use was fire.

English Standard Version Joshua 6:24
And they burned the city with fire, and everything in it. Only the silver and gold, and the vessels of bronze and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.

Deuteronomy 13-16
You should then collect all its spoil into the middle of its public square and burn the city with fire

Jesus at times used the term “fire” in an illustrative way ,remember the way Jesus taught was only by illustrations:

New King James Version
All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,

A parable is a simple story used to illustrate this is how he taught the crowds only by
illustrations,all had a deeper meaning but not all was to be taken literally ,for example

The scripture you used:

Mark 9:47: "It is better for you to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into Gehenna

Was he literally saying to pluck out one of your eyes ,NO. or amputate your foot.

Jesus warned his disciples against letting their hand, foot, or eye stumble them so that they would be pitched into Gehenna. Then he went on to say: “Everyone must be salted with fire.” He must have meant that “everyone” who did what he had just warned against would be salted with the “fire” of Gehenna, or eternal destruction.

New King James Version
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
King James Bible
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

New International Version
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


Peter wrote that “the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire.”


From the context and in the light of other scriptures, it is evident that this is not a literal fire but signifies everlasting destruction.

Flood of Noah’s day did not destroy the literal heavens or the earth, this is the same earth Adam walked on so the world was the wicked people that perished.

Yet preachers will tell people God will burn up the earth yet another of hundreds of false teaching of the Churches
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I thought Jesus was possibly referring to you with that as I heard that your wife says you can be "really bad", but was she maybe referencing something else? :shrug:
I just can't tell you ANYTHING! Share something in confidence and you blab it on the internet! HMMPH! :p
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
but it also says even the darkness is as light to you. so really darkness is nothing more than ignorance, lack of knowledge of the divine; which is hell/confusion = babel?


https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16360#v12

That verse doesn't mean God created evil. Bible verses are to be taken in the full context. https://crossexamined.org/did-god-create-evil/

After Bible study, one evening, a good friend of mine and I discussed the problem of evil. He asked an excellent question, “Did God create evil?” I said, “No, I don’t think he did.” However, my friend objected because he said, “God created everything, so he must have created evil.” This conversation was quite good, and we found common ground by the end of our discussion. This article relates some of the issues that we discussed.

One of the first issues we needed to define was the nature of evil. What do we mean when we say something is evil? He was using the term to define any type of disaster or bad thing. I was using to term to define immoral behaviors, such as torturing babies. How do we answer this question? Did God create evil? In this article, I would like to look at four common tricky areas that need to be dissected in order to answer the question.

Ontology and Epistemology of God and Evil. The terms ontology and epistemology are philosophical terms but are important to this area of conversation. One cannot neglect philosophy because bad philosophy often leads to bad theology. First, let me define the terms and how they play a role in this discussion.

Ontology is the study of the nature of being. It deals with how we know something exists. For instance, does a pizza exist? How do we know a pizza exists? These are ontological questions that deal with the nature of pizza’s existence. And oh, how tragic life would be without the existence of pizza!

Epistemology deals with the theory of knowledge[1]. This area deals with how we know something to be true. What is the nature of such and such? To use our illustration of pizza, ontology would ask, “Does pizza exist?” whereas epistemology would ask, “Is pizza good? Can we know that pizza is tasty?” So, a created thing would deal with the area of ontology, whereas the nature of the thing would deal more in the area of epistemology more or less.

When we talk about God creating all things, we must understand that God created everything that exists including the potentials to do certain things. However, if we grant the existence of human freedom, then God is not responsible for the actions that people take. Yes, God provides the means and conditions that can lead to a person’s actions and God knows the free actions that a person will take, but the person is responsible for his or her own actions[2]. Therefore, God created all things and created the conditions where a person could do good or evil. But, God did not create evil, because evil is not a thing to be created. It is not like a virus or slab of concrete. Evil is an attribute. It is a personal rejection of the good, the good which is an attribute of God.

The Moral Character of God. God is thoroughly identified in the Scriptures as being the ultimate good. John tells us that God is love (1 Jn. 4:8). Scripture also indicates that God is absolutely holy, which means that he is set apart and absolutely pure (1 Sam. 2:2; 6:20; Ps. 99:9; 1 Cor. 3:17; Rev. 4:8). Since God is the absolute good and absolutely pure, it is false to claim that God does evil. James says that “No one undergoing a trial should say, ‘I am being tempted by God,’ since God is not tempted by evil, and he himself does not tempt anyone. But each person is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own evil desire. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death” (Jms. 1:13-15). James answers the question for us in great detail about God’s relationship to evil. God cannot do evil because God is the absolute good[3].

So, how do we know what is evil and what is good? If you are driving down a highway, you will see a sign that posts the speed limit. In town, the speed limit will most likely be 35 miles per hour. How do you know that you’re breaking the speed limit driving 55 miles per area in that zone unless there is a speed limit posted stating that one should only go 35 miles per hour? The law must exist before you can know if you’re breaking the law. Moral standards must exist before one can know that he or she is doing evil. Objective moral standards come from God. Again, evil is not something to be created. Evil stems from a rejection of God’s moral goodness.

Ra’ah, Disaster, and Evil. Let’s face it. Biblical interpretation is tough especially when it comes to the original languages. Some individuals have spent their entire lives seeking to master the biblical languages but are still left with questions. If that is the case, should those of us with less training in the biblical languages not have much more humility when it comes to such terms? I think so.

Often, Hebrew words can take several different meanings depending on context. I remember when taking Greek that Dr. Chad Thornhill would often emphasize context, context, context when interpreting a confusing term. In Hebrew, one such example is the confusion that occurs with the term ra’ah. Ra’ah describes a disaster, but it can also be used to describe something evil. Ingrid Faro explains with the following:

“For example, the Hebrew root “evil” (ra’; ra’ah; r’ ’) occurs 46 times in Genesis and is rightly translated into English using at least 20 different words, and nuanced in the Septuagint by using eight Greek forms (11 lexemes). Yet English-speaking people often incorrectly assume an underlying meaning of “sinister, moral wrong” and interject that into each use of the Hebrew word.”[4]

In Amos 5:3, it is noted that “If this is a judgment announcement against the rich, then the Hebrew phrase עֵת רָעָה (’et ra’ah) must be translated, “[a] disastrous time.” See G. V. Smith, Amos, 170.”[5] Thus, the term ra’ah can indicate a disaster that has befallen a group of people and does not necessarily mean “evil” as some older translations have indicated.

But, doesn’t disaster indicate something evil? If God brings disaster, does that not indicate that God does something evil? No, not at all! God is holy. If a people are unrepentant and are unwilling to stop doing evil, then God is completely justified in bringing judgment. The disaster is not evil if it is due to justice. Like a parent disciplining a child or a judge executing judgment against a convicted criminal, disasters are sometimes the judgment of God poured out upon an unrepentant people. I think it was good that the Allies stormed into Germany to overtake the evil Adolf Hitler. Likewise, it is actually good for God to bring judgment as it coincides with his holy nature.

Evil Allowed to Permit the Ultimate Good. So, the final question that must be tackled is this: If God is good, then why would he allow evil to exist in the first place? Why would he create a condition where evil could exist? The answer to this is quite simple. God’s allowance of evil is to allow a greater good. What is that greater good? Love. For love to truly exist, it must be free. It must be freely given, freely received, and reciprocal between both parties. God could have created us as robots or automatons. But, that would not provide true love. The ultimate love was given in Jesus, who experienced the horrors of torture and experienced the just punishment that we deserve. He did so that we would have life eternally. The penalty of our eternal punishment was paid on the cross at Calvary. God lovingly confers his grace to all who would willingly receive. His grace is freely offered and is freely received. This kind of love would not be possible if God did not allow the conditions that would allow evil to exist. A greater good has come. One day, those who have trusted Christ for their salvation will no longer need to worry about evil because evil will be vanquished. The redeemed of Christ will be transformed. We will experience the bliss and glory of the heaven that awaits us. To God be the glory!

So, did God create evil? It depends on what you mean. God created the conditions for evil to exist but did so to allow a greater good which is the free love that is experienced between the Lover (God), the beloved (us), and the spirit of love between the two. Evil is not a thing to be created. Rather, it is a condition that exists when a person or group of people reject God’s goodness and his holy moral nature.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
so in genesis we don't see the creation of hell. we just see a creation of heaven and earth.


so did mankind create hell with the distance mentally placed between the idea of self and god/love ?

did the division of God otherwise to self create the chaos?

did the fall from heaven literally divide mankind mentally from what he projected as divine and what he labeled/named mundane?

As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, peace and joy are the natural qualities of the soul, but these are obscured by intense desires in the form of cravings and aversions for pleasure and pain, due to identification with the mind-body complex, and which produces misery and suffering.

Rather than being in the state of pure consciousness, one identifies with the temporary body and consequently experiences negative emotions and vices in the form of lust, hatred, greed, inordinate attachment and egoism.

Thus heaven and hell is considered as a state of mind or consciousness.

Considering oneself as an eternal conscious soul in a temporary body and identifying with the consciousness within is considered as soul-consciousness. This generates peace and tranquility in the system.

Identification with the temporary body on the other hand generates fear , hatred and other negative emotions leading to vice. This lower state of consciousness productive of suffering is also termed as body-consciousness.
 
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