The Gospel shall be preached to all nations and then the end shall come

nPeace said:

You're right.

@adrian009
Matthew 24 itself, shows that it's two-fold.
(Matthew 24:1, 2) 1 Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”

After prophesying that Jerusalem would be destroyed, the disciples wanted to know when that would occur, but they wanted to know something else - when would Jesus be present in kingdom power... in other words, when would he begin ruling, and bring an end to the present system.
(Matthew 24:3) While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

The kingdom was always on their mind, and since they knew that Jesus was the king of that kingdom, they were in great expectation of it... so much so that they had wrong expectations.
(Acts 1:6-8) 6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judeʹa and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

Jesus encouraged them not to be sidetracked by the timing, but rather to focus on the work of declaring the message worldwide.
The message, he had promised, needed to be declared until the end.
(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Before the end though, there would be signs indicating the end times - Matthew 24:4-14
After giving that information, Jesus proceeded to give details concerning Jerusalem's demise, and the end of the world.

1 John 2:15-17

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I see the time it takes prophecy to unfold is the demise of many of us. God's time is not our time.

I saw in your post that even the end times may unfold over many centuries, but then in the end of ages, there is this promise.

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I see the time it takes prophecy to unfold is the demise of many of us. God's time is not our time.

I saw in your post that even the end times may unfold over many centuries, but then in the end of ages, there is this promise.

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Regards Tony

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Yes, many centuries into the future, and yes. the fact that those days must be cut short shows that we are in for some serious times ahead... greater than anything we have seen in our time.

nPeace said:

Yes, many centuries into the future, and yes. the fact that those days must be cut short shows that we are in for some serious times ahead... greater than anything we have seen in our time.

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To me there is no doubt that is correct. I see Prophecy is timeless and unfolds in a way that can confirm Faith in each age.

There is Prophecy in the Baha'i Writings that says

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

The Long continue aspect I have always pondered over, even many Baha'i, me inclusive would like to see the fullfillment in our time. History has shown, that does not happen very often, we live just a blink in the expanse of time.

Thee are also some very clear warnings, that the convulsions the world faces will daily increase while the world refuses to embrace out unity as a human race. Each of the convulsions will point us to that requirement.

I do wonder how much more the world can take, especially when I see the fabric of America being ripped apart in a disunity on a vast scale.

I wish you and everyone all the best as we move towards the unity we must find.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

To me there is no doubt that is correct. I see Prophecy is timeless and unfolds in a way that can confirm Faith in each age.

There is Prophecy in the Baha'i Writings that says

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

The Long continue aspect I have always pondered over, even many Baha'i, me inclusive would like to see the fullfillment in our time. History has shown, that does not happen very often, we live just a blink in the expanse of time.

Thee are also some very clear warnings, that the convulsions the world faces will daily increase while the world refuses to embrace out unity as a human race. Each of the convulsions will point us to that requirement.

I do wonder how much more the world can take, especially when I see the fabric of America being ripped apart in a disunity on a vast scale.

I wish you and everyone all the best as we move towards the unity we must find.

Regards Tony

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Thanks Tony.
I don't know about you, but I am hoping it will happen in this my life time.
However, I don't want to be presumptuous... no matter what time it happens... God is righteous and good. His patience is exceedingly great.
I don't have half of it, but I am learning.

nPeace said:

Thanks Tony.
I don't know about you, but I am hoping it will happen in this my life time.
However, I don't want to be presumptuous... no matter what time it happens... God is righteous and good. His patience is exceedingly great.
I don't have half of it, but I am learning.

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I see there are signs it may be sooner than later.

I see it is clearly foretold that America will suffer greatly as a Nation and also lead humanity to peace.

America has undoubtedly been working hard in the world as a peacekeeping Nation and is now being tested like never before, but, and it is a big but, there is so much happening that is for personal gain, it is all too world and material based. I am not sure how the spirit will permeate our mind as a whole, it appears we need great catastrophic events!

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I see there are signs it may be sooner than later.

I see it is clearly foretold that America will suffer greatly as a Nation and also lead humanity to peace.

America has undoubtedly been working hard in the world as a peacekeeping Nation and is now being tested like never before, but, and it is a big but, there is so much happening that is for personal gain, it is all too world and material based. I am not sure how the spirit will permeate our mind as a whole, it appears we need great catastrophic events!

Regards Tony

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Hmmm. You are not alone in thinking this way.
It is true that the US will play a major role is promoting peace efforts, and solutions, which will give many a sense of security, and hopes of peace.
That is all part of Bible prophecy.


Not to derail from the thread, I just want to ask, do you also believe that day will come suddenly, like a thief in the night, when God's acts to save mankind? Or ate you thinking that the US is what will save mankind?

nPeace said:

Hmmm. You are not alone in thinking this way.
It is true that the US will play a major role is promoting peace efforts, and solutions, which will give many a sense of security, and hopes of peace.
That is all part of Bible prophecy.

Spoiler: Prophecy

(Revelation 13:3-15) 3 I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshipped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshipped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” 5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones. 11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13 And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. 14 It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.

(1 Thessalonians 5:2, 3) 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

Not to derail from the thread, I just want to ask, do you also believe that day will come suddenly, like a thief in the night, when God's acts to save mankind? Or ate you thinking that the US is what will save mankind?

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Well as per the OP, I see the end has come, what I see we do not know, is how long the end unfolds.

The end I see is that of an age and that age was the age of prophecy, I see we are in the age of fulfilment of prophecy and in that way, there are still Bible passages to unfold.

God's Kingdom on earth was rejected, so a Lesser Peace will be establish, this may be the peace you are seeing in your thoughts.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Well as per the OP, I see the end has come, what I see we do not know, is how long the end unfolds.

The end I see is that of an age and that age was the age of prophecy, I see we are in the age of fulfilment of prophecy and in that way, there are still Bible passages to unfold.

God's Kingdom on earth was rejected, so a Lesser Peace will be establish, this may be the peace you are seeing in your thoughts.

Regards Tony

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Not connecting your dots here, but perhaps in another thread I may pursue this. Take care Tony.

firedragon said:

Let me make the distinction if you dont mind. Muslims may say a lot of things, but the core Muslim belief about the Bible is that it was never the work of God, it was the work of Man and people said "it was from God". Well, maybe that's not relevant.

Peace.

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So where is the Gospel or Injil of which Muhammad spoke nearly six hundred years later?

adrian009 said:

So where is the Gospel or Injil of which Muhammad spoke nearly six hundred years later?

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How is that relevant to my comment? Please explain. If you want to debate about the Gospel and what Muhammed said and all of those theological beliefs that's fine, but define your claim and even if this thread is not relevant to any of that okay, lets discuss.

But none of this is relevant to me correcting your perception of the Islamic belief about the Bible. I was only telling you the belief of the Muslim. I did not even say it is correct. So apologies, what you were doing is a strawman fallacy.

Windwalker said:

Again, it's that underlying premise, that paradigm, that takes words like 'inspired' and translates that to mean without error, or that there must be a single truth to be understood within the texts. And that's a functional system up to a point. But it's the point where it hits a critical eye of modernity and beyond, where now the metaphor, or the meaning of the symbol, runs into a point of conflict. At which point, that meaning becomes disrupted. A resolution can be found by shifting the paradigm itself, until that no longer serves us anymore either.

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I like what you have to say about paradigms. We’ve both moved beyond Biblical literalism a long time ago and strive more that which is more authentic and to be lived. I suppose I’m in awe that after two thousand years, Christ’s Words have such an influence. I’m disturbed that those who claim to follow Him, disregard His Core Message of love, truth and justice and are wreaking such havoc in your country and the world.

firedragon said:

How is that relevant to my comment? Please explain. If you want to debate about the Gospel and what Muhammed said and all of those theological beliefs that's fine, but define your claim and even if this thread is not relevant to any of that okay, lets discuss.

But none of this is relevant to me correcting your perception of the Islamic belief about the Bible. I was only telling you the belief of the Muslim. I did not even say it is correct. So apologies, what you were doing is a strawman fallacy.

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You’re reading into my question something that isn’t there. Its a question which you’re free to answer or not.

I accept your view that many Muslims don’t regard the Gospels as being from God. I was interested in how ‘you’ reconcile that belief with the Quran. I’m asking for your opinion, not starting an argument.

If you don’t believe Jesus spoke the words in Matthew 24, then we don’t have too much to discuss around the OP question. No problem, but I’m curious as to why ‘you’ as a Muslim don’t believe Jesus spoke those words.

Make sense?

adrian009 said:

I accept your view that many Muslims don’t regard the Gospels as being from God. I was interested in how ‘you’ reconcile that belief with the Quran. I’m asking for your opinion, not starting an argument.

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Because they believe people wrote them and attributed them to God. I believe I have stated this already.

adrian009 said:

If you don’t believe Jesus spoke the words in Matthew 24, then we don’t have too much to discuss around the OP question. No problem, but I’m curious as to why ‘you’ as a Muslim don’t believe Jesus spoke those words.

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I dont say "I dont believe Jesus said those words". One could speculate many a thing. I just dont trust Matthew since its 40 years after Jesus, written by an anonymous author or someone no one has ever known, nor does it claim to be written by a direct disciple of Jesus.

adrian009 said:

I like what you have to say about paradigms.

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I've found understanding that to be helpful. It's the whole ways we see things themselves, and not just arguments about differences of the particulars. The entire playing field is different. Understanding that explains a lot more than, "what the hell is wrong with you", responses.

adrian009 said:

We’ve both moved beyond Biblical literalism a long time ago and strive more that which is more authentic and to be lived. I suppose I’m in awe that after two thousand years, Christ’s Words have such an influence. I’m disturbed that those who claim to follow Him, disregard His Core Message of love, truth and justice and are wreaking such havoc in your country and the world.

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You and me both. I've been chewing on that passage about the thief who comes in another way. John 10:1, "I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber."

That other way, is coming to God with the ego, seeking for self, seeking for power, seeking for self-advantage, using God as a tool. It's not sincere faith. It's "some other way", the way of the ego. And where we end up when we do that, is the opposite of the core teachings you cited.

firedragon said:

I dont say "I dont believe Jesus said those words". One could speculate many a thing. I just dont trust Matthew since its 40 years after Jesus, written by an anonymous author or someone no one has ever known, nor does it claim to be written by a direct disciple of Jesus.

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I really can not understand that stance, it has bewildered me ever since I read the Quran and Read what Muhammad offered and I see in no way has this view been supported.

To me it akin to Saying Jesus Christ was given by God a Message for all humanity, but then left no guidance for humanity after Jesus passed on.

Fortunately, I do now see the wisdom of why Baha'u'llah has confirmed the Bible is a sure testament to Jesus the Christ and a sure guidance to the Spirit that was Christ. A great injustice, held in the mind of many millions has been corrected.

I just needed to say that, it needs no reply.

All the best to all people.

Regards Tony

firedragon said:

Because they believe people wrote them and attributed them to God. I believe I have stated this already.



I dont say "I dont believe Jesus said those words". One could speculate many a thing. I just dont trust Matthew since its 40 years after Jesus, written by an anonymous author or someone no one has ever known, nor does it claim to be written by a direct disciple of Jesus.

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So, if Gospel was written by the hand of Jesus Himself, you would have trusted the Book? In what sense you would have trusted? In the sense that it would be a divine revelation?

InvestigateTruth said:

So, if Gospel was written by the hand of Jesus Himself, you would have trusted the Book? In what sense you would have trusted? In the sense that it would be a divine revelation?

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I have given a few reasons why I dont trust the Gospel according to Matthew. If you have any genuine arguments to why I should trust it, I dont mind hearing it.

Presenting hypothetical situations is in my opinion not valid.

firedragon said:

I have given a few reasons why I dont trust the Gospel according to Matthew. If you have any genuine arguments to why I should trust it, I dont mind hearing it.

Presenting hypothetical situations is in my opinion not valid.

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My best reply would be God does as God chooses.

God gave the Message through Jesus and then allowed the record of that Message to be recorded, in the way it was, so it could be distributed around the world.

All the while it becomes a test of our own Faith in Allah.

The same with the Quran.

Regards Tony

adrian009 said:

With the never ending USA election debacle dominating news headlines that simultaneously fascinates and disturbs, its time to gain solace from that old time religion.

The final sermon of Christ is known as the Olivet discourse where Jesus predicts the destruction of the Jewish Temple and events that will accompany His Return (the Parousia). The sermon is recorded in different ways in the three synoptic Gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke. One verse in Matthew records the command to preach the Gospel to all nations with an abrupt prediction that the end shall come:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:14

Some Baha’is in the West understand the verse to refer to the end of the Christian Era and the beginning of a new era based on renewed religious principles suited to our modern age. The nineteenth century witnessed the last great expansion of Christendom where the Gospel was preached to the remaining nations as part of the great commission. This of course coincides with the dramatic birth the Babi and Baha’i religions.

Any Biblical scriptures attributable to an itinerant Jewish Preacher who was born over two thousand years ago will be subject to a wide variety of interpretations, especially those from the apocalyptic genre.

So if the Olivet discourse is reasonably attributable to the Teachings of Christ, what did He mean by preaching the Gospel to all the nations and has it happened yet? If it hasn’t, what else is required? What did Christ mean when referring to “the end”?

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"So if the Olivet discourse is reasonably attributable to the Teachings of Christ, what did He mean by preaching the Gospel to all the nations and has it happened yet? If it hasn’t, what else is required? What did Christ mean "
when referring to “the end”?"



Most if not all of Jesus parables or illustrations were about what? Gods Kingdom


what was the subject jesus talked about the most parables in the bible - Google Search

People also ask
What is the most talked about subject in the Bible?
Kingdom/God


So then if this was the most he was interested in should we not search to find out what is Gods Kingdom?
google what is Gods Kingdom this is what this site said:

What Is the Kingdom of God? Understanding Its Meaning

1. The rule of Jesus Christ on earth
2. The blessing and advantages that flow from living under Christ’s rule
3. The subjects of this kingdom, or the Church


This explanation is half truths ,true there will be subjects of his Kingdom and have blessings from it but his rule is not on earth that is a false teaching according to what Jesus himself said;

I will quote from translations other than our NEW World translation :

New Living Translation
Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from
being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

Even after Jesus was resurrected his followers who were under Roman rule wanted the Kingdom to be restored on EARTH and asked Jesus when would he restore the earthly Kingdom ,what was Jesus answer?


English Standard Version
He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible
So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
New Living Translation
He replied, “The Father alone has the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to know.

Earlier he taught his followers his Kingdom was New Jerusalem in heaven not over in the middle east

King James Bible
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:


King James 2000 Bible
A little while, and you shall not see me: and again, a little while, and you shall see me, because I go to the Father.



What did Christ mean when referring to “the end”?

The END is the end of this world of evil and a new world right here on earth

Daniel said Gods Kingdom would bring the END of this world of evil people


New International Version
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.


So this Kingdom that Christ said to pray for ;THY KINGDOM COME] so when it comes it will destroy all governments that are controlled by Satan [New International Version
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.]

The aftermath of this destruction will leaven dead bodies all over the earth those who rejected the Kingdom message we Jehovahs Witness preach :


New King James Version
And at that day the slain of the LORD shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.

This is the END all followers of Christ has been commanded to warn of this by preaching the only hope for mankind God s Kingdom

the Gospel or GOODNEWS to all nations is preaching about the Kingdom afterwards the END will come Armageddon

firedragon said:

I have given a few reasons why I dont trust the Gospel according to Matthew. If you have any genuine arguments to why I should trust it, I dont mind hearing it.

Presenting hypothetical situations is in my opinion not valid.

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Ok, let me ask my question another way. Do you trust that Jesus received a revelation from God, called Gospel, because Quran says?

Do you think, when Muslims trust Quran telling truth, they take it on faith, or they could conclude from historical methods that Quran is telling truth?