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Why is the Trinity so controversial?

Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Eddi said:
I don't understand how The Holy Trinity is so controversial...

And I don't see why it is taken to be polytheism either

It seems to make perfect sense to me:

View attachment 44829
It's a single entitiy made up of three separate parts

Just like a triangle is a single entity made out of three separate lines...

It says that God is a single entity which we may know as either a Father, the Holy Spirit, or as Jesus Christ

I know people find this confusing and call it polytheism but I don't really know why...

I'm not out to bicker or debate, I genuinely want to know :D

I'm especially interested in the accusation of polytheism
Click to expand...

I believe for me it is that it upsets God when people think He is in parts.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
SalixIncendium said:
How?

I have a gold bangle, a gold necklace, and a gold ring. All are gold. The are the same in their true nature, but are all separate appearances of gold. From my perception, the bangle is not a necklace or a ring, the necklace is not a bangle or a ring, and the ring is not a bangle or a necklace. But all are gold.
Click to expand...

I believe that works for gold but God can't be broken up into pieces as gold can.
 
Ajarn

Ajarn

Member
If God guided the writings in the Bible why the confusion.
Surely with his wisdom he could express it in a way we all understand.
The fact that we are discussing it shows a failure as people do not understand the trinity.
Gods word, we should pick it up read it and say oh yes I see now, but no thats not happening.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Ajarn said:
If God guided the writings in the Bible why the confusion.

Surely with his wisdom he could express it in a way we all understand.
Click to expand...

If God inspired the Tanakh it would be obvious that there is no such thing as a Trinity in the Tanakh.

The fact that we are discussing it shows a failure as people do not understand the trinity.
Gods word, we should pick it up read it and say oh yes I see now, but no thats not happening.
Click to expand...

True, not understanding nor reading the Tanakh.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Eddi said:
I don't understand how The Holy Trinity is so controversial...

And I don't see why it is taken to be polytheism either

It seems to make perfect sense to me:

View attachment 44829
It's a single entitiy made up of three separate parts

Just like a triangle is a single entity made out of three separate lines...

It says that God is a single entity which we may know as either a Father, the Holy Spirit, or as Jesus Christ

I know people find this confusing and call it polytheism but I don't really know why...

I'm not out to bicker or debate, I genuinely want to know :D

I'm especially interested in the accusation of polytheism
Click to expand...
noTrinity.png
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
NOT three gods. If you have a human family of husband, wife and child, you would NOT say there are three husbands or three wives or three children You would say there are three different people in ONE family. There are NOT three gods. There is one father and one son and one spirit that make up ONE God.
Click to expand...

If the word god is like the word family, why would one use god as a being rather than say "the father/creator did X; Jesus did Y; and the Spirit did Z"?

For example, if the daughter of the family physically saved her friend from drowning, we wouldn't say "the family" saved her friend but the daughter did.

That's if jesus/creater/spirit were a family/god.

If you called each family member each other jesus is creator is spirit and use the term god it no longer means family. It means a unity. "One." It's no longer a trinity (a family) but a unity. Since we know (right?) jesus is not the creator, family/trinity is a better word. God is not because it doesn't denote more than one person (tri-) and it isn't plural (+s); unity (god) and trinity are not the same.

I think that's why (now I think of it) people say trinitarians believe in three gods. It's not that each person a creator but when associating jesus=god/creator=spirit, you're divining the three (making each of them gods) while calling them god (one) at the same time.

That's confusing.
 
Last edited:
L

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
If the word god is like the word family, why would one use god as a being rather than say "the father/creator did X; Jesus did Y; and the Spirit did Z"?

For example, if the daughter of the family physically saved her friend from drowning, we wouldn't say "the family" saved her friend but the daughter did.

That's if jesus/creater/spirit were a family/god.

If you called each family member each other jesus is creator is spirit and use the term god it no longer means family. It means a unity. "One." It's no longer a trinity (a family) but a unity. Since we know (right?) jesus is not the creator, family/trinity is a better word. God is not because it doesn't denote more than one person (tri-) and it isn't plural (+s); unity (god) and trinity are not the same.

I think that's why (now I think of it) people say trinitarians believe in three gods. It's not that each person a creator but when associating jesus=god/creator=spirit, you're divining the three (making each of them gods) while calling them god (one) at the same time.

That's confusing.
Click to expand...
In my opinion there is NO "person" named God. People use the term incorrectly. Usually when someone uses the word "God" they are thinking of the Father. I personally never pray to "God". I pray to the Father just like Jesus prayed to the Father. You are right. If John Doe is the head of a family and he saves a person's life, we would not say the family saved a life. We would say John saved a life. In the same way, if "God" heals a sick person, we should NOT say "God" did it. We should say the Father did it. Or Jesus did it or the Spirit did it. God only did it in the sense that one of the members of the "God" family did it.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
I would say that instead of the word "God" it should say "the Father". And the entire picture should be titled "God".
Click to expand...
I could change the word God to father...
noTrinity1.png
...but that doesn't change anything.
To encompass the entire image as God though would be to paint an incorrect picture, since the holy spirit is never described as God, nor god.
The holy spirit is described as being the equivalent of God's finger.
(Exodus 31:18) ...he gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God’s finger.
(Luke 11:20) But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons...
(Matthew 12:28) But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons...

The reason this is correct also....
noTrinity.png
...is because in this context, it applies only to the almighty - the one who created all, and is over all - the one and only true God.
(Deuteronomy 4:35) You yourselves have been shown these things so you will know that Jehovah (YHWH) is the true God; there is no other besides him.
(Isaiah 43:10) ...So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.
(Isaiah 45:21) . . .Is it not I, Jehovah (YHWH)? There is no other God but me. . .
(Isaiah 44:6) This is what Jehovah (YHWH) says, The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah (YHWH) of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.
(Isaiah 44:8) . . .Is there any God but me? No, there is no other Rock; I know of none. . .
(Mark 12:32) The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you spoke well, in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other besides him’. . .
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Jehovah - the father, is not Jesus - the son. He identifies himself as the only God, the only true God.
Why do you think that is? We use words in contexts. Should we not take these in the context? What do you think?

Eddi said:
Could you please explain this?

What do you mean by it?
Click to expand...
Sure Eddi.
The outer circle around God, representing the holy spirit, is placed this way because the holy spirit is inseparably a part of God - the father, just as one's heart is inseparably a part of them. Remove it, and that person cannot be said to be complete.
God's holy spirit completes him. It's what makes him God. Without holy spirit God - the father would be not much different to all the other divine, or God-like beings.
This we know from what we have seen in scripture, and also heard, haven't we?
(Ezekiel 39:29) . . .for I will pour out my spirit on the house of Israel. . .
(Joel 2:28) . . .After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh. . .
Strong's Greek: 1632. ἐκχέω, (ekcheo) -- I pour out, shed
(Matthew 1:18) . . .she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit. . .
(Matthew 1:20) . . .for what has been conceived in her is by holy spirit.
(2 Peter 1:21) . . .men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

Why is God's spirit poured out? Why is it apportioned? What really is God's holy spirit... a god, or a powerful force which is like God's energy, that can be distributed, and used to accomplish anything God wants?
(Psalm 104:30) . . .If you send forth your spirit, they are created. . . Genesis 1:2
(Job 33:4) God’s own spirit made me, And the Almighty’s own breath brought me to life.
(Exodus 31:18) Now as soon as he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, he gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God’s finger.
(Luke 11:20) But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.

Perhaps the creators of these movies know something.
340

Perhaps.

Unveiled Artist said:
Wouldn't the father send the son (father middle, son surrounding), and from the son comes the spirit of Pentecost?
Click to expand...
The father gives the spirit, as we read... It issues from God.
(Acts 1:5) for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.”
(Acts 2:1-4, 33) 1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2 Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.
(John 14:15-17) 15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

Did you notice how many persons will have God's spirit with them forever? Yet the spirit remains with God.
How can that be if the spirit is an entity... a god?
Why is the holy spirit associated with God's breath, or his finger, and involved in his actions, or activities?
 
L

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
nPeace said:
I could change the word God to father...
View attachment 45059
...but that doesn't change anything.
To encompass the entire image as God though would be to paint an incorrect picture, since the holy spirit is never described as God, nor god.
The holy spirit is described as being the equivalent of God's finger.
(Exodus 31:18) ...he gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God’s finger.
(Luke 11:20) But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons...
(Matthew 12:28) But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons...

The reason this is correct also....
View attachment 45060
...is because in this context, it applies only to the almighty - the one who created all, and is over all - the one and only true God.
(Deuteronomy 4:35) You yourselves have been shown these things so you will know that Jehovah (YHWH) is the true God; there is no other besides him.
(Isaiah 43:10) ...So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.
(Isaiah 45:21) . . .Is it not I, Jehovah (YHWH)? There is no other God but me. . .
(Isaiah 44:6) This is what Jehovah (YHWH) says, The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah (YHWH) of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.
(Isaiah 44:8) . . .Is there any God but me? No, there is no other Rock; I know of none. . .
(Mark 12:32) The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you spoke well, in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other besides him’. . .
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Jehovah - the father, is not Jesus - the son. He identifies himself as the only God, the only true God.
Why do you think that is? We use words in contexts. Should we not take these in the context? What do you think?


Sure Eddi.
The outer circle around God, representing the holy spirit, is placed this way because the holy spirit is inseparably a part of God - the father, just as one's heart is inseparably a part of them. Remove it, and that person cannot be said to be complete.
God's holy spirit completes him. It's what makes him God. Without holy spirit God - the father would be not much different to all the other divine, or God-like beings.
This we know from what we have seen in scripture, and also heard, haven't we?
(Ezekiel 39:29) . . .for I will pour out my spirit on the house of Israel. . .
(Joel 2:28) . . .After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh. . .
Strong's Greek: 1632. ἐκχέω, (ekcheo) -- I pour out, shed
(Matthew 1:18) . . .she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit. . .
(Matthew 1:20) . . .for what has been conceived in her is by holy spirit.
(2 Peter 1:21) . . .men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

Why is God's spirit poured out? Why is it apportioned? What really is God's holy spirit... a god, or a powerful force which is like God's energy, that can be distributed, and used to accomplish anything God wants?
(Psalm 104:30) . . .If you send forth your spirit, they are created. . . Genesis 1:2
(Job 33:4) God’s own spirit made me, And the Almighty’s own breath brought me to life.
(Exodus 31:18) Now as soon as he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, he gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God’s finger.
(Luke 11:20) But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.

Perhaps the creators of these movies know something.
340

Perhaps.


The father gives the spirit, as we read... It issues from God.
(Acts 1:5) for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.”
(Acts 2:1-4, 33) 1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2 Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.
(John 14:15-17) 15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

Did you notice how many persons will have God's spirit with them forever? Yet the spirit remains with God.
How can that be if the spirit is an entity... a god?
Why is the holy spirit associated with God's breath, or his finger, and involved in his actions, or activities?
Click to expand...
Two points to consider. 1. The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate "person". I John 4:13 says that God has given us HIS spirit. It is a part of God just like you might say he has given us his hand or his heart. 2. You say the one and only true God created all things. But if you read Colossians 1:16 it is talking about JESUS when it says by HIM were all things created. Think about it.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
Two points to consider. 1. The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate "person". I John 4:13 says that God has given us HIS spirit. It is a part of God just like you might say he has given us his hand or his heart. 2. You say the one and only true God created all things. But if you read Colossians 1:16 it is talking about JESUS when it says by HIM were all things created. Think about it.
Click to expand...
These are all distractions from G-d, I understand, Jesus and or Mary never believed and or worshiped Jesus-god or Holy-Spirit-god, please.
Right, please?

Regards
 
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