• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

France and Belgium acting to stop the Koran burners......

stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
ChristineM said:
You would be dead, how do you cry?
Click to expand...
I agree, exactly my point. Focus on the real issue at stake = violence done in name of Islam. Don't let them get away, by letting them use terminology like Islamophobia (Islam is not a phobia, it is real; ask all gay people and who want to leave Islam, sitting on death row every day !!!). And for sure don't let them get away by shifting blame on "you provoke us by drawings of M". That is too sick for words. That is a non-issue here.

ChristineM said:
But here lies the problem, although burning any book is terrible, peope no not (or should not) commit murder, often innocent victims, in a tit for tat, look at me god/allah/whatever. Aint i good, i killed to avenge you.
Click to expand...
Burning books is nothing, compared to what these people (demons) do in name of these books. Burning such books put them to the best of use, if it would solve this deep rooted problem in the World, called religious extremism. Non religious extremism is 100 times more serious a thread than non religious extremism, because all sleeping potential killers can be awakened any time. Especially knowing and considering the fact, with which every Muslim is brainwashed "this is the book of God", and it's Holy and stuff
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
ChristineM said:
FYI

France pays silent tribute to victims on fifth anniversary of Paris attacks
Click to expand...
Thank you for the link:
The first 2 videos were great (horrible I mean of course, but very informative). Showing and reminding us in just 2 minutes the immense danger the world faces now

And I am sure, this is just the start. It will get worse soon, I foresee. Unless all Muslim countries unanimous declare to the whole world, that Islam has been wrong about this for the past 1400 years (so many Imams need to be reprogrammed).

Not easy to admit, but the only way to avert the immanent danger we (the West/world) are in now, IMO. Hence it is up to governments now to STOP this disease in Islam and use anything they can to do so (like boycott the M.E.; instead of those idiotic countries boycotting France).

That is how sick they are. They are the killers and shift blame by turning facts around, and then blame France even (that I call reverse Islamophobia; which I am sure they created as an act of taqia; I clearly see their pattern). That is narcissism at it's worst; shifting blame and twisting fact, and turning it around against you. I know their tactics to well, to be fooled anymore by these narcs.

I really hope Macron stays strong now, I heard him give in a little some time back, but I got the feeling he will not give up. These boycotts of the Muslims are laughable, if it were not sick to it's core.
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Stevicus said:
If society gives validation to heckler's vetoes, it could be a very slippery slope.
Click to expand...
Well Belgium and France certainly have. Both countries have chucked out the troublemakers.

They're stamping down on the hate mongers now, let's hope they both acted quickly enough.
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Altfish said:
Yes, that is provocative.
But, if I'm clearing a house and disposing of books and I had a bonfire to burn them and I came across a holy book, it would go on the fire with the rest. It does not have special privileges. But I would not film it and put in on Facebook or YouTube
Click to expand...
Sure..... that makes perfect sense.

I think that both France a Belgium saw what could be out of all this hate mongering Islamophobia and have stamped down.
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Polymath257 said:
I do.

Part of free speech is being free to say that other beliefs are silly and dangerous. That includes ridicule and mockery.

Now, there is such a thing as 'incitement to riot', but that is only at an immediate time.

If I want to publish a story of Mohammed and Jesus having a same-sex marriage with Buddha and Moses occasional participants, that should be allowed. If I want to draw pictures of the same, that should be allowed.

Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
Click to expand...
Ah well, despite wishing for free speech, both France and Belgium have now decided to act against any hate actions, hate speech or hate demonstrations against Islam.

I didn't know it before but laws criminalising hate speech and actions are written in to both countries' laws, just as they are here on the UK.

But even where you are some speech and publications are crimes and/or torts. You already mentioned incitement.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Who decides what hate speech is? Where is the line between offensive, even hateful speech and incitement to violence?

Do people have a legal right not to be offended? Where would THAT end?
 
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
exchemist said:
Very much so.

Rather like routing a parade of Orangemen through the heart of the Catholic housing estates in Londonderry, on the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne, and for good measure shouting "F*** the Pope" as you go. :D
Click to expand...
Less of this sort of thing.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
oldbadger said:
I was saddened by the publication of pictures which upset Muslims in France, especially since France has outlawed hate speech against any groups of people (See below). But not upsetting pictures, it seems.
Now the situation has escalated further and both France and Belgium have needed to act against plots to burn Korans in public places (See below).

Any actions which upset people, whether by hate speech, hate demonstrations or hate publications, these can ignite turmoil, commotion and unrest across countries, and maybe beyond.

Who believes in Freedom to do any of these things? Who?



Hate speech laws in France - Wikipedia.
The hate speech laws in France are matters of both civil law and criminal law. Those laws protect individuals and groups from being defamed or insulted because they belong or do not belong, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, a sexual orientation, or a gender identity or because they have a handicap. The laws forbid any communication which is intended to incite discrimination against, hatred of, or harm to, anyone because of his belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, a sexual orientation, or a gender identity, or because he or she has a handicap.


Belgium expels Danish right-wing activists over plot to burn ...www.bbc.co.uk › news › world-europe-54919127
10 hours ago — The plan to burn a Koran in a mainly-Muslim area was described as "a serious threat to public order".
Missing: evicts ‎| Must include: evicts


France charges man for burning, urinating on Koran | Reutersuk.reuters.com › article › france-charges-man-for-burni...
5 Oct 2010 — A blogger who filmed himself burning the Koran and urinating on it to put out the flames is to appear in court in eastern France, charged with ...
Missing: evicts ‎| Must include: evicts


Liberté for Whom: How France Has Failed French Muslimstheintercept.com › 2019/02/23 › france-islamophobia-i...
23 Feb 2019 — French Muslims Grapple With a Republic That Codified Their Marginalization ... bear directly on the congregants at the mosque — about Islam, terrorism, and ... In Vénissieux and other suburbs across France, young men burned cars and ... The other tenants inside, as well as the shops below, were evicted ...
Click to expand...
Ironic givin how a considerable portion of Muslims act themselves.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
oldbadger said:
French Muslims?
Yes? No?

Clearly the French and Belgian governments would wish for peace amongst their citizens. A most reasonable course of action.
Click to expand...

Sure. But it can be a trade off of one form of violence for another. Personally you can't be violent with inanimate objects and that includes the Qur'an, Bible, and any other thing you can think of.

Anyone getting upset over inanimate objects being brutalized or parodied needs a serious wake up call because that tells me they are not quite all right in the head if they feel the need to physically kill or harm others. If it's that bad, they should get their own effigy to play with and blow off some steam themselves.
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Altfish said:
I am NOT suggesting that you provoke a muslim on purpose but that there should not be a ban on the use of humour to make a point
Click to expand...

I think that was the intention, to upset on purpose.

France has decided to stop all this,but seems.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
oldbadger said:
I was saddened by the publication of pictures which upset Muslims in France, especially since France has outlawed hate speech against any groups of people (See below). But not upsetting pictures, it seems.
Now the situation has escalated further and both France and Belgium have needed to act against plots to burn Korans in public places (See below).

Any actions which upset people, whether by hate speech, hate demonstrations or hate publications, these can ignite turmoil, commotion and unrest across countries, and maybe beyond.

Who believes in Freedom to do any of these things? Who?



Hate speech laws in France - Wikipedia.
The hate speech laws in France are matters of both civil law and criminal law. Those laws protect individuals and groups from being defamed or insulted because they belong or do not belong, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, a sexual orientation, or a gender identity or because they have a handicap. The laws forbid any communication which is intended to incite discrimination against, hatred of, or harm to, anyone because of his belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, a sexual orientation, or a gender identity, or because he or she has a handicap.


Belgium expels Danish right-wing activists over plot to burn ...www.bbc.co.uk › news › world-europe-54919127
10 hours ago — The plan to burn a Koran in a mainly-Muslim area was described as "a serious threat to public order".
Missing: evicts ‎| Must include: evicts


France charges man for burning, urinating on Koran | Reutersuk.reuters.com › article › france-charges-man-for-burni...
5 Oct 2010 — A blogger who filmed himself burning the Koran and urinating on it to put out the flames is to appear in court in eastern France, charged with ...
Missing: evicts ‎| Must include: evicts


Liberté for Whom: How France Has Failed French Muslimstheintercept.com › 2019/02/23 › france-islamophobia-i...
23 Feb 2019 — French Muslims Grapple With a Republic That Codified Their Marginalization ... bear directly on the congregants at the mosque — about Islam, terrorism, and ... In Vénissieux and other suburbs across France, young men burned cars and ... The other tenants inside, as well as the shops below, were evicted ...
Click to expand...
There is always two sides to a situation, understanding the non muslim community for their feelings about negativity from terrorists, hateful speech about their country and their way of living. And the fear terrorism has on them.

The terrorists who claim belonging to Allah would know their action is wrong and evil if they understand the teaching to not be about fighting others, but fighting the self. Something they clearly do not see.

This cause problem for non voilent muslim and followers of Allah. The view of all the Muslim community has become toxic due to evil action of the "few"

Understanding each other become difficult when evil is portrayed both ways.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We once had a bit of Koran burning here in Ameristan.
I commented.

September eleventh, books' flames lick the air.
This anti-Islamic theatrical flair
intends to offend
but simply could end
If Muslims would passively show they don't care.
 
Last edited:
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Polymath257 said:
I do.

Part of free speech is being free to say that other beliefs are silly and dangerous. That includes ridicule and mockery.
Click to expand...
And are you aware which people blaspheme the most?
Those same Muslims whenever they claim that nobody should draw Muhammad
Easy to proof, this one:D. Because Hindu religion really stresses the importance to draw your Guru, as it develops love

Note: Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence to a deity, or sacred objects, or toward something considered sacred or inviolable.
Note: I should send this to Macron, easier than this he can't prove that Islam and Muslims are totally wrong on this issue
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Twilight Hue said:
Sure. But it can be a trade off of one form of violence for another. Personally you can't be violent with inanimate objects and that includes the Qur'an, Bible, and any other thing you can think of.

Anyone getting upset over inanimate objects being brutalized or parodied needs a serious wake up call because that tells me they are not quite all right in the head if they feel the need to physically kill or harm others. If it's that bad, they should get their own effigy to play with and blow off some steam themselves.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that the Belgium and French governments were wrong to kick the extremist Danes who planned the Koran burning demonstrations out of their countries... were wrong, and should have allowed these demonstrations to proceed?

Should Belgium, France and the UK repeal their laws which ban hate speech,vacations and publications?

While we're all at it, should we ignore Antisemitism as well?

What say you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top