What Makes an Atheist an Atheist?

Unveiled Artist · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Believe it or not, I do look over my posts before I hit the post button and don't see errors until the text form changes. I don't know why that is, but it's my understanding that this condition is not unique to me.

I typically have the typos changed within minutes, but that doesn't do any good with eagle-eye members such as yourself.

Good. I'm not the only one. I do the same after hitting the post button. It could be the font too. I don't know.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Fair enough, but what if one isn't being forthcoming about what they believe? What if, as I gave an example of in the OP, their behaviors or moral values don't align with that of the typical atheist? What if they bow their head during an invocation? What if place their right hand on the Bible while swearing an oath? What if they hold up a Bible, but turn it right side up? How do we weed out these fakes?

You don't "weed out these fakes."

If an atheist is closeted, there's probably a very good reason for it. It may be the case that they would be in physical danger if they were outed.

If you want to do something, then either:

- quietly and without raising suspicion offer help, or
- take steps to make a more welcoming society where they would feel comfortable coming out.

Apart from those options, leave it alone.

PAUL MARKHAM · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

The lack of proof a god exists.

The 1,000s of versions of what a god is.

The 10,000s of versions of what a prophet is.

The existence of Jesus doesn't mean there is a god. We don't know for sure what he said, did, lived, died, his parents, etc. All we do know is from stories written as political propaganda. Then made into holy books by Man. The same can be said for Mohammed, Buddha, and every holy man ever.

PureX · Nov 9, 2020

Technically, no one is "an atheist". One is simply asserting their adherence to the philosophical proposition of atheism; i. e., that no gods exist in any way that affects humanity.

Why they are doing so is a secondary issue.

Secret Chief · Nov 9, 2020

PAUL MARKHAM said:
We don't know for sure what he said, did, lived, died, his parents, etc.

PAUL MARKHAM said:
The same can be said for ... Buddha

I'm going to have to disagree on the Buddha - Siddhartha Gautama. He is generally accepted as being a real historical figure. He was born at Lumbini in about 563 BCE. His father was King Śuddhodana and his mother was Queen Maya. He died at Kushinagar in about 483 BCE.

TagliatelliMonster · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

Being asked "do you believe in any gods?" and then answering that question with "no".

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

Being a christian is defined by belief, not by behavior.

You can be a christian (ie: believe the claims of christianity) and then "sin" left and right. You acting in unchristian ways, wouldn't change your christian beliefs.

It might qualify you as a "bad christian", but a christian nonetheless.

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

Euh... I guess you can't. Or maybe you could try a lie detector?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

It seems to me that it's usually the other way round, that it's atheists who don't publicly out themselves as atheists because of the social stigma they would have to face in predominantly theistic communities.

So if you are going to go down that route, we're also going to have to factor in all those claiming to be theists who are actually atheists - and I personally think that the number of "closet atheists" is FAR FAR bigger then the number of "closet theists".

Nimos · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

A Christian is one that accepts Jesus as the saviour, in broad terms. I don't think a lot of atheists agree with that.

Also what do you mean, that atheists behaves in such manner that aligns with the teaching of Jesus, can you elaborate on that?

Left Coast · Nov 9, 2020

shivsomashekhar · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

The opposite is true, too. I know people who will not explicitly label themselves as atheists, but they have no belief in both of the below -

1. A God or gods who influence our everyday lives.
2. The concept of afterlife.

I think, the 500 million count is very low. The actual number is far higher with globalization and broader exposure - in my opinion.

ChristineM · Nov 9, 2020

PureX said:
that no gods exist in any way that affects humanity.

I don't know where you got the part i bolded, it's certainly not in any definition of atheism i know

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

If someone's behaving in a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus teaches, wouldn't that be a dead giveaway that they're not a Christian?

(Joking, mostly)

But seriously: what do you think there is in "the morals Jesus teaches" that's specific to Christianity?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

How do you figure out how someone is lying on other issues?

It seems to me for someone to pretend to be an atheist "to avoid ridicule," they would have to live in a society where there's a net social cost to being out as a theist; I don't think that such a society exists.

Even in the most secular societies, the worst that will happen to someone who comes out as a theist is that the people around them just won't care.

ratiocinator · Nov 9, 2020

PureX said:
Technically, no one is "an atheist".

Technically? In what way 'technically'? If somebody lacks a belief in god(s) they are an atheist, and many do.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 9, 2020

PureX said:
Technically, no one is "an atheist". One is simply asserting their adherence to the philosophical proposition of atheism; i. e., that no gods exist in any way that affects humanity.

Why they are doing so is a secondary issue.

Your inability to understand atheist viewpoints in no way suggests that they don't exist.

Heyo · Nov 9, 2020

First, well played. It seems atheists are just as ignorant about their non-faith as Christians are about their faith.

Second, you didn't pay attention. I'm not an atheist (well, I am by atheists definition but only as a consequence), I am an Agnostic.

SalixIncendium said:
Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

Just ask "Do you believe in a god or higher power?".
If the answer is not "yes", you got an atheist.
(Note the difference, not "yes" vs, "no".)

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

Should they be called Buddhist, Shintoist, Pagan, Hindu if their behaviour aligns with those moral teachings? Atheism has no moral, so an atheist is free to be as moral as she wants.

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

Here it comes, fake atheists. Well to distinguish "fake" atheists from Real Atheists™, the answer to the question would have to be "no" and they would have to be able to make a conclusive argument for their atheism.

Ponder This · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

Perhaps beliefs are a wibbly-wobbly sort of thing - subject to soft edges and changes of mind.
Maybe people have degrees of certainty in their beliefs as opposed to hard true and false narratives.

A Vestigial Mote · Nov 9, 2020

SalixIncendium said:
Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

There is no "test", just as there is no "test" to see if one is a member of any given faith that can be relied upon if someone is intent on deceiving you.

It isn't like an actual discipline, based on real-world conditions and requiring knowledge of actual systems or processes. Not at all. You either take someone at their word as to what they say or not... there is no viable "test."

Unveiled Artist · Nov 9, 2020

PureX said:
Technically, no one is "an atheist". One is simply asserting their adherence to the philosophical proposition of atheism; i. e., that no gods exist in any way that affects humanity.

Why they are doing so is a secondary issue.

I was trying to figure how to comment but in a more productive way.

If you take RF out of the equation and just focus on the word, there are people who just do not believe god exist. They never heard of the "proposition" (which I never have until I came on here), it's just not relevant to their/our lives. Believing that no god exists, just as believing no Jane Doe exists in Italy, really has no philosophical idea to it.

As for not believing god's existences does not affect humanity, it really doesn't. Many people who don't believe god exists go on with their lives one way or another. My question is why do christians (only people I came across who does this, actually) need to justify why people don't believe in god's existence?

Can't it just be enough that there are some people who believe god exists and others who do not?

Starlight · Nov 9, 2020

Atheists do not believe in a intelligent force/spirit who has created the universe/universes

ChristineM · Nov 9, 2020

Meandflower said:
Atheists do not believe in a intelligent force/spirit who has created the universe/universes

Atheists also does not believe non creator gods exist.

Starlight · Nov 9, 2020

ChristineM said:
Atheists also does not believe non creator gods exist.

Yes thats true

What Makes an Atheist an Atheist?

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