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Song of Songs

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
@Vouthon and I have just been discussing this. I appreciate how many religious authorities take an allegorical approach to this text and this is reflected in many commentaries. I'm wondering what your, or your religion's approach to this book is, your own feelings on it, and can it justify also a literal reading as a love text, or is that perhaps unseemly to your or your faith tradition?
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
@Vouthon and I have just been discussing this. I appreciate how many religious authorities take an allegorical approach to this text and this is reflected in many commentaries. I'm wondering what your, or your religion's approach to this book is, your own feelings on it, and can it justify also a literal reading as a love text, or is that perhaps unseemly to your or your faith tradition?
I'd never heard of it until now :oops:
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd never heard of it until now :oops:
Song of Songs is how Jews generally refer to it. Perhaps you've heard of it in the more well-known, less-Jewish name, "Song of Solomon"?
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
It's been a while since I read the bible, but I can see how this would be an interesting sticking point for bible-derived faiths as they developed, since they probably wanted to walk back a lot of this, and connect us more and more to metaphysical spiritual planes or concepts. But taken flatly for what it is, when I read several of the passages, it seems like it was written by someone with a undiluted sense of eros. I suppose it was written from the standpoint of a person in power, a king, looking to try and enjoy the corporeal world, which any king of the ancient world would have thought to organize to their benefit. So odd then, for me to imagine groups of celibate monks reading this, and trying to derive a metaphor here between the connection of god and man. I give them points for creativity anyway, but I think a sleight of hand is being played here. Why try to make what is plain into a veneer, what effort there is to always decide there is something under or above that which you see
 
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Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
The book is a song composed by Solomon the king after he built the great temple in Jerusalem and already had accumulated many wives and concubines. (6:8) Now he went after this Shulamite virgin, or maiden. Imagine a king, the most wise, and wealthiest man alive looking for your affections? He had already won over many women. But she was in love with a lowly shepherd boy. And while he tried unsuccessfully to woe her, she remained steadfast to her shepherd boy.

The virgin depicts well the relationship that the virgin congregation of 144,000 anointed Christians have in relationship with their Shepherd Jesus Christ, to whom they have been promised as a bride.

It is interesting that in the first century the Jewish rabbi Akiba said of the book: “The whole world was not worthy of the day in which this sublime Song was given to Israel; for all the Scriptures are holy, but this sublime Song is most holy.”—Mishnah, in the Sixth Division under “Yadaim,” section 3, ¶5.

The ancient Jewish tradition was that she represented the Jewish people and its affection of Jehovah God. But looking at its own history recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures, the Jews were not spiritual virgins, rejecting Jehovah God over and over, and then sadly rejecting his son the promised Messiah putting him to a horrible death. So it could not represent them. In their own holy annuals is recorded their sordid history. They did not remain a chaste virgin.

But when Jesus Christ was raised to heaven to Jehovah's right hand he waited to begin ruling over the earth as was his birthright as son of David. Revelation tells us that Jesus Christ has 144,000 spiritual virgins that will be raised to heaven as a "chaste bride."

While the religions of Christendom, like Israel of old, intermingled in the politics and wars of the nations, Christ's bride remains chaste.

Just as Solomon said:

See, this is what I found,” says the congregator. “I investigated one thing after another to reach my conclusion,  but what I continually sought, I have not found. One man out of a thousand I found, but a woman among them I have not found." -Ecclesiastes 7:28.

So it was in his day, low moral standards must have prevailed, probably because of the foreign women who promoted Baal worship. So with the Churches of Christendom who both display very low morality physically, but also spiritually.

On the other hand the anointed Christian congregation of spiritual Israel is faithful to Jehovah God, and his son Jesus Christ, to whom they are promised as a chaste virgin:

"And I heard what sounded like a voice of a great crowd and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of heavy thunders. They said: “Praise Jah, because Jehovah our God, the Almighty, has begun to rule as king!  Let us rejoice and be overjoyed and give him glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself.  Yes, it has been granted to her to be clothed with bright, clean, fine linen—for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.”-Revelation 19:6-8.

Jesus Christ is the sacrificial lamb that takes sin away from the world. In this vision we already see him crowned king of God's kingdom government. And now the 144,000 who remained faithful to God and his Christ while on earth to death are resurrected in immortal spirit bodies and are presented symbolically here as a bride to the Christ. That is why Paul talking to the anointed Christian congregation of 144,000 spiritual Israelites says:

"For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, for I personally promised you in marriage to one husband that I might present you as a chaste virgin to the Christ."-1 Corinthians 11:2.

Revelation tells us these spiritual Israelites are virgins:

"And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth.  These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."-Revelation 14:3-5.

Some think these are literal Jews mentioned in the vision, just as they think they are literal virgins. Of course this is referring to those who have been called to reign in heaven as kings with Christ in his kingdom for a 1,000 years over the entire earth, so the 144,000 are anointed Christians, the spiritual Israel of God. They are virgins spiritually, not literally. They do not partake in the world's politics and wars. They remain neutral as to the world while on earth, knowing their inheritance is in heaven. While they live on earth they serve as ambassadors to the nations heralding Christ's incoming world government. And just as an ambassador does not participate in the politics or wars of the nations to whom they are sent, but rather represent the interests of their own king, the anointed 144,000 do not take sides in the politics or wars of this world. They take part in the interests of their royal king and redeemer, the great shepherd Jesus Christ.

So, unlike the unfaithful nation of natural Israel of old , whom Jehovah called an unfaithful wife, and a prostitute over and over, an unlike the religions of Christendom who are also unfaithful to God and his Christ, the faithful Shulamite woman in Solomon's superlative song could rightly represent Jehovah's faithful witnesses who are anointed, that have remained a chaste virgin for the bridegroom, awaiting the joyous marriage feast in heaven when they are resurrected to spirit life and joined to Christ to rule over the earth!

That the nation of Israel for the most part were rejected, except for a few faithful servants of Jehovah who followed the Christ, Jesus himself revealed when referring to that marriage in the heavens. He talks about how Jehovah sent out a proclamation to his people to call them together for the marriage of his son. But they did not want to listen. They actually murdered the slaves of God sent out to invite them to the marriage feast. So God turned on them and burned their city down and killed the unfaithful murderers. Then Jehovah then said he would invite people of the nations:

The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a king who made a marriage feast for his son.  And he sent his slaves to call those invited to the marriage feast, but they were unwilling to come. Again he sent other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those invited: “Look! I have prepared my dinner, my bulls and fattened animals are slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the marriage feast.”’ But unconcerned they went off, one to his own field, another to his business;  but the rest, seizing his slaves, treated them insolently and killed them.

 “The king grew wrathful and sent his armies and killed those murderers and burned their city.  Then he said to his slaves, ‘The marriage feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. Therefore, go to the roads leading out of the city, and invite anyone you find to the marriage feast.’  Accordingly, those slaves went out to the roads and gathered all they found, both wicked and good; and the room for the wedding ceremonies was filled with those dining
."-Matthew 22:2-10.

(Read through and made several edits to grammar, spelling, and punctuation.)
 
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Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
@Vouthon and I have just been discussing this. I appreciate how many religious authorities take an allegorical approach to this text and this is reflected in many commentaries. I'm wondering what your, or your religion's approach to this book is, your own feelings on it, and can it justify also a literal reading as a love text, or is that perhaps unseemly to your or your faith tradition?
More than one Christian I know considers it to be erotic. Some claim it has or also has higher meanings. I've never quite sussed exactly why the plot goes like it does and why there is this girl who runs out into the city and gets manhandled by the watch. A lot of the plot seems arbitrary to me. I'm used to police being polite and helpful, but her police were rapists. I also am a little humored by the naughty imagery that also is very strange such as the descriptions of teeth and secondary definitions for gardens and towers. Its comedic to me a little bit, and it doesn't inspire erotic thoughts. I'd probably be one of those looking for higher meaning rather than considering it to be erotic. "Your teeth are doves" just doesn't work for me.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
More than one Christian I know considers it to be erotic. Some claim it has or also has higher meanings. I've never quite sussed exactly why the plot goes like it does and why there is this girl who runs out into the city and gets manhandled by the watch. A lot of the plot seems arbitrary to me. I'm used to police being polite and helpful, but her police were rapists. I also am a little humored by the naughty imagery that also is very strange such as the descriptions of teeth and secondary definitions for gardens and towers. Its comedic to me a little bit, and it doesn't inspire erotic thoughts. I'd probably be one of those looking for higher meaning rather than considering it to be erotic. "Your teeth are doves" just doesn't work for me.
You mean this?

Behold, you are beautiful, my love; behold, you are beautiful; your eyes are doves.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
You mean this?

Behold, you are beautiful, my love; behold, you are beautiful; your eyes are doves.
That's it! That's actually not bad though.

[Sng 4:2 NIV] 2 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn, coming up from the washing. Each has its twin; not one of them is alone.
[Sng 6:6 NIV] 6 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep coming up from the washing. Each has its twin, not one of them is missing.

It probably is much smoother in the original language. In English its got a hangnail.

[Sng 4:4 NIV] 4 Your neck is like the tower of David, built with courses of stone; on it hang a thousand shields, all of them shields of warriors.

This also does not work in English.
 
Eyes to See wrote a very awesome big post up there, and in it mentions
"It is interesting that in the first century the Jewish rabbi Akiba said of the book: “The whole world was not worthy of the day in which this sublime Song was given to Israel; for all the Scriptures are holy, but this sublime Song is most holy.”—Mishnah, in the Sixth Division under “Yadaim,” section 3, ¶5."

That reminds me of how some Victorian writers would go wild in praise about certain things. It is very possible that this text was used in some special or esoteric fashion, but it really just looks like flowery love poetry and disturbing, considering that Solomon is denigrated in the Bible as one who became a fool due to this sort of love, and took to adopting idolatrous practices of his sexy beloved wives:
Topical Bible: Solomon: His Idolatry

2 Kings 23:13
And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had built for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.

Nehemiah 13:26-
Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.
27 Must we hear now that you too are doing all this terrible wickedness and are being unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women?"
28 28Even one of the sons of Jehoiada son of Eliashib the high priest had become a son-in-law to Sanballat the Horonite. Therefore I drove him away from me.
 
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