Not recognizing the divine

By the way, I don't see Krishna as the Supreme God, but I do see him as an awesome god.

Ancient Soul said:

So you think this "Bahaullah" was a "god"?

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Baha'u'llah never claimed to be God. He claimed to be a Manifestation of God who spoke for God.

“Attract the hearts of men, through the call of Him, the one alone Beloved. Say: This is the Voice of God, if ye do but hearken. This is the Day Spring of the Revelation of God, did ye but know it. This is the Dawning-Place of the Cause of God, were ye to recognize it. This is the Source of the commandment of God, did ye but judge it fairly. This is the manifest and hidden Secret; would that ye might perceive it. O peoples of the world! Cast away, in My name that transcendeth all other names, the things ye possess, and immerse yourselves in this Ocean in whose depths lay hidden the pearls of wisdom and of utterance, an ocean that surgeth in My name, the All-Merciful. Thus instructeth you He with Whom is the Mother Book.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 33-34

KAT-KAT said:

So what does society need to change about itself and its rule such that when the next manifestation of God or the divine comes, that religious history isn't repeated with people mocking, abusing, imprisoning, or even killing the manifestation of the divine?

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Ancient Soul said:

That won't ever happen because God is purely spiritual in nature.

Such "man-gods" are just false man made God constructs, mythologies, that were invented so that the primitive people of the times could relate to, something their small minds could handle.

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KAT-KAT said:

I'd say Bahaullah was real - the only question was whether he was who he says he was.

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Let me see if I can straighten this out. I re-posted the beginning part of our conversation for reference.

My take on your opening comment of this thread's topic was about God, and most likely referring to Jesus who some claim is "god", with the part about "mocking, abusing, imprisoning, or even killing the manifestation of the divine".

But I broadened my answer to include ALL the mythical "man-gods" just to make clear that none of them existed. (Jesus, Allah, Zoroaster, etc.)

My take on this Bahaullah is that he is just another cult leader wannabe who never got anywhere in his lifetime. And although his cult only got started by other men after his death I believe the story goes, they claim he was just a "messenger". So my comment wasn't about him as I was just stating about those mythical men claiming to BE God.

I don't know if that straightens this out, or makes it worse, but it's the best I can think of at the moment.

Trailblazer said:

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be God. He claimed to be a Manifestation of God who spoke for God.

“Attract the hearts of men, through the call of Him, the one alone Beloved. Say: This is the Voice of God, if ye do but hearken. This is the Day Spring of the Revelation of God, did ye but know it. This is the Dawning-Place of the Cause of God, were ye to recognize it. This is the Source of the commandment of God, did ye but judge it fairly. This is the manifest and hidden Secret; would that ye might perceive it. O peoples of the world! Cast away, in My name that transcendeth all other names, the things ye possess, and immerse yourselves in this Ocean in whose depths lay hidden the pearls of wisdom and of utterance, an ocean that surgeth in My name, the All-Merciful. Thus instructeth you He with Whom is the Mother Book.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 33-34

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Geez...

What a train wreck this Baha'i mythology is.

This Baha'u'llah is either a "messenger" or a "manifestation" of "god". It cannot be both ways.

When you make the claim that he is the "manifestation of "god"", that means that your "god" is manifesting himself as that physical person. (Like the corrupted Jesus myth.) Then he's no more just a "messenger", but "god" himself. So get your story straight.

And thanks for once again presenting evidence to back up the statement I keep making, that Baha'u'llah has nothing truly spiritual to offer, so speaks in bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people into thinking he has "something" to offer. But he doesn't, it's just meaningless bombastic gobbledygook.

And BTW - that quote does NOT back up your claim.

Ancient Soul said:

This Baha'u'llah is either a "messenger" or a "manifestation" of "god". It cannot be both ways.

When you make the claim that he is the "manifestation of "god"", that means that your "god" is manifesting himself as that physical person. (Like the corrupted Jesus myth.) Then he's no more just a "messenger", but "god" himself. So get your story straight.

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He was both.... Not only THAT, He was a Servant of God. There is no reason why a Manifestation of God cannot ALSO be a Messenger and a Servant of God. Jesus was all three of these and so was Baha'u'llah. But both of them were Manifestations of God only in the sense that They "manifested" God's attributes. Baha'is do no believe Jesus or Baha'u'llah BECAME God in the flesh, as Christians believe about Jesus.

“Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world....... And were any of them to voice the utterance, “I am the Messenger of God,” He, also, speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth. ..........For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the “Beginning” and the “End,” the “First” and the “Last,” the “Seen” and the “Hidden”—all of which pertain to Him Who is the Innermost Spirit of Spirits and Eternal Essence of Essences. And were they to say, “We are the Servants of God,” this also is a manifest and indisputable fact. For they have been made manifest in the uttermost state of servitude, a servitude the like of which no man can possibly attain. Thus in moments in which these Essences of Being were deep immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest summits of Divine mysteries, they claimed their utterances to be the Voice of Divinity, the Call of God Himself.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 54-55

Ancient Soul said:

And thanks for once again presenting evidence to back up the statement I keep making, that Baha'u'llah has nothing truly spiritual to offer, so speaks in bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people into thinking he has "something" to offer. But he doesn't, it's just meaningless bombastic gobbledygook.

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Call it whatever you want to. That won't make it what you believe it is. That is just YOUR personal opinion, we all have those. You have only seen a few quotes so you do not know what Baha'u'llah has to offer.

What is your definition of "truly spiritual?" Do you think you have anything truly spiritual to offer?

Ancient Soul said:

And BTW - that quote does NOT back up your claim.

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I have no claim. Baha'u'llah made the claim and He backed them up with evidence.

Gargovic Malkav said:

If "messianic figure" sounds too Abrahamic and restricting in your view, then please translate the term to something like "hero figure" or "teacher figure"; some expected or desired individual and/or personification of a mindset that's going to help humans become better creatures and guide them into a new era.

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If you think that statement in any way pertains to non Abrahamic religions please provide an example of a pagan figure who's raison d'être was to guide humans to a new era.

KAT-KAT said:

So what does society need to change about itself and its rule such that when the next manifestation of God or the divine comes, that religious history isn't repeated with people mocking, abusing, imprisoning, or even killing the manifestation of the divine?

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If you follow the fundamental religious teachings like present moment awareness, unconditional love, compassion and virtuous conduct you will develop the intuitive ability which can help you identify the Divine when no one else can.

It is the conditioned mind that can err, and the focus of authentic spiritual exercises is in deconditioning the mind and anchoring it in reality free from prejudiced lenses.