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I think God will understand

He will also be shocked that you try to tell people he was a bad person. Jesus was not a bad person. He said loves your neigbor and enemy. He said be kind to everybody and he said many wise loving words. He was one of the most loving person on earth.

Luke 19:26-
26He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me. 28After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.

Not a nice guy:

John 2:1-

1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4And Jesus says to her, "What to Me and to you, woman? My hour is not yet come."

John 2:4 "Woman, why does this concern us?" Jesus replied. "My hour has not yet come."

Look how he disrespects Mother Mary in all the translations.

Furthermore, for all you lovers:
Matthew 7:23
22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!/Evildoers

Matthew 25:41
Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Luke 12:51
Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!

Know your Jesus!
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Luke 19:26-
26He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me. 28After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.

Not a nice guy:

John 2:1-

1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4And Jesus says to her, "What to Me and to you, woman? My hour is not yet come."

John 2:4 "Woman, why does this concern us?" Jesus replied. "My hour has not yet come."

Look how he disrespects Mother Mary in all the translations.

Furthermore, for all you lovers:
Matthew 7:23
22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!/Evildoers

Matthew 25:41
Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Luke 12:51
Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!

Know your Jesus!
I love Jesus and his Mother. I don't care what you thinks about him. Jesus is loving but he is also teaching us that actions we do have real consequences. Thats is why he sometimes is string. To be really loving is not to overlook evil
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
I use words like "might", because we have not set a definition of God all agree on AND of course I don't know what God thinks/wants etc.
So, thanks for questioning me, reminds be again that I should not impose my mind/ideas on God



:D
I don't know this for a fact. In Hinduism they define soul as being immortal, and I use that definition
I stayed with a Master in India for 10 years and He also declared that a soul can't die

Good to know I help you a little:D

But what if hinduism is wrong about the soul's eternal nature? what if God really can kill a soul? why take the chance?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
God is not so loving if he/she don't judge our actions. Actions has consequenses. A loving parent sometimes judge a child to learn the child not to do it againt/learn the child the action was bad. A God who just not care what we do is not really Loving
A God does not care what we do is like a teacher who ses bulliying but do not care
I did not say that God does not care; maybe even more than any human ever could
I just said that God does not judge you; my faith is in Sanathana Dharma

But if you prefer a God that judges, then I am fine with that
I don't want you to give up or change your belief
As I fully support "Freedom of Religion"
 
I love Jesus and his Mother. I don't care what you thinks about him. Jesus is loving but he is also teaching us that actions we do have real consequences. Thats is why he sometimes is string. To be really loving is not to overlook evil
What Evil did his Mother do that he addressed her so rudely? That other woman was begging for her child's sake, and he denigrated her and put her down and put down her whole ethnic group as well, like a bad person would do. He insulted the Jews for asking him to wash his hands before he eats food, and then told them they should kill their own children for the simplest of issues, and then went on to call his own disciple Peter "dull" by asking "Are you so dull"?

You love a figure in your own mind, the character depicted in the scriptures is not who you are imagining most likely, you have created in your mind a much better Jesus than appears in the scriptures.

I also demonstrated to you how negative the term Dog is in the scriptural references, repeatedly it is associated with absolutely the worst things, all extremely negative things.

I prefer the Jesus you have made up in your imagination, not the one I showed you who is being so cruel.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
But what if hinduism is wrong about the soul's eternal nature? what if God really can kill a soul? why take the chance?
Example:
Jesus comes to your house and talks to you, and Jesus tells you "a soul can not be killed"

Would you still have doubts? Would you still question Jesus His words?
 
Good to know I help you a little:D

But what if hinduism is wrong about the soul's eternal nature? what if God really can kill a soul? why take the chance?

The worst "chance" one is taking is in saying that Jesus who appeared as a man is God and that God's death forgives your sins. All the other scriptures mainly talk about a different God than that, they talk about a Universal God that doesn't appear as a man who doesn't have to die to forgive your sins, so then the Chance being taken is on the claims of Christianity, while the other scriptures all agree with each other much more and Christianity is the odd man out.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
He will also be shocked that you try to tell people he was a bad person. Jesus was not a bad person. He said loves your neigbor and enemy. He said be kind to everybody and he said many wise loving words. He was one of the most loving person on earth.
Uh huh. :rolleyes:
 
I have two posts in this thread I think which collect a lot of evidence from the New Testament and Biblical scriptures that should make it very clear that the Jesus so many seem to talk about as the "Loving Teacher/Father Figure" is not what is depicted in the actual writing, and those who neglect and ignore the writing are thus called into question for denying the very scriptures they claim to base their beliefs upon and support.
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Not a nice guy:
Know your Jesus!


Jesus talks a lot in riddles. Do not take all the thinks he said litteraly.
Jesus loved his mother.
Jesus was loving and kind.



Now I will explain matthew 25:41 and Luke 12:51:


Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Luke 12:51
Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other.

The answer:

Bad people do not want hear that truth is real true. And evil is real evil. Evil actions have real consequenses This is a riddles.
If a evil man say " Hey listen to me. Jesus is wrong. It is not bad to kill people" what the evil man said is NOT true no matter how much he thinks so. Evil actions will never be the truth. No matter how much some people in the world want it to be.


SOME IMPORTANT KIND, LOVING WORDS JESUS SAID:


The Sermon on the Mount

1 When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain and sat down. His disciples came to Him, 2 and He began to teach them, saying
3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you.

Love Your Enemies
(Luke 6:27–36)
38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also;
43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The two greatest commandments

And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)

Jesus prevents stoning of a woman

8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more
 
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Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Not a nice guy:
Know your Jesus!

MORE LOVING WORDS FROM JESUS

- In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew 5:16

- So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets Matthew 7:12

- But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Matthew 33

- I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world. John 16:33

- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life John 3:16

- Are not sparrows sold for very little? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. The very hairs on your head have been counted. Fear not. You are worth more than a flock of sparrows. Matthew 10:29-31

- Forgive and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37

- If one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them, does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the missing one till he has found it? How delighted he is then! He lifts it onto his shoulders, and home he goes to call his friends and neighbors together. “Celebrate with me!” he cries. “I have found my lost sheep. Luke 15:4-6

- It is not what goes into a man from outside that can make him unclean. It’s what comes out of him that makes him unclean. Mark 7:15

The Parable of the Lost Son
11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.
13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
 
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Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Example:
Jesus comes to your house and talks to you, and Jesus tells you "a soul can not be killed"

Would you still have doubts? Would you still question Jesus His words?
God question :)
I don't know really.. what if it is just a demon? or my own mind? How do I know if its really Jesus?.. Hm.. Difficult to answer
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
The worst "chance" one is taking is in saying that Jesus who appeared as a man is God and that God's death forgives your sins. All the other scriptures mainly talk about a different God than that, they talk about a Universal God that doesn't appear as a man who doesn't have to die to forgive your sins, so then the Chance being taken is on the claims of Christianity, while the other scriptures all agree with each other much more and Christianity is the odd man out.

You do not know much about christianity apparantly.. Christianity has so many different denominations and opinions. Not just ONE opinion all christians agree on.

Example:

The doctrine of inclusivism is held by Roman catholics and Seventh-day Adventists, asserting that while Christianity is the one true faith, other faiths are at least partially true, and therefore are valid ways of reaching salvation until the Gospels can be preached to them.

Inclusivism - Wikipedia

And catholics christians do not believe that only " that God's death forgives your sins" as you wrote. Catholics and ordotox believe than salvation is belief AND works. If you do not do good deeds, are kind to other people then it is poinless to believe jesus died for your sin.

And many christians believe that humans can be saved after death, sometimes known as the doctrine of postmortem evangelism. And many christians believe Jesus is the best way to God but not the only way. Why? For example because of this words from the bible:

So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him John 4:16

AND

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins 1 John 4:7-21
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
There are many reasons why. One that I think of off hand to share with you is the fact that Jehovah God from heaven declared that he would have witnesses for his name that would declare what he has decided to do for humankind. This prophecy was made thousands of years ago. And here we are in the last part of the last days of this old system and Jehovah has witnesses in all the earth declaring what he is going to do:


“You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah,
“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and have faith in me
And understand that I am the same One.
Before me no God was formed,
And after me there has been none.
I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”
“I am the One who declared and saved and made known
When there was no foreign god among you.
So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God.

Isaiah 43:10-12.

Jehovah says this about his illustrious name:

I am Jehovah. That is my name;
I give my glory to no one else,
Nor my praise to graven images.
 See, the first things have come to pass;
Now I am declaring new things.
Before they spring up, I tell you about them.”

Isaiah 42:8, 9.

He will not share his glory with false gods and graven images.

Jehovah has made a challenge to all the other gods to raise up for themselves witnesses and imbue them with power and knowledge to declare to the nations what will happen. The challenge to these other gods!:

“Present your case,” says Jehovah.
“Produce your arguments,” says the King of Jacob.
“Produce evidence and tell us the things that will happen.
Do tell us about the former things,
So that we may reflect on them and know their outcome.
Or declare to us the things that are coming.
Tell us what will happen in the future,
So that we may know that you are gods.
Yes, do something, good or bad,
So that we may be amazed when we see it."

-Isaiah 41:21-23.

The gods of the nations do not have witnesses declaring in all the earth God's will for humankind and what he now intends to do. Why?:

 Look! You are something nonexistent,
And your achievement is nothing.
Anyone who chooses you is detestable.

-Isaiah 41:24.
But anyway, what about The Bhagavad Gita? The Qur'an? The Adi Granth? The Kitáb-i-Aqdas? The Agam Sutras? The Tripitaka? The Avesta? Why should we uncritically accept your holy book without question while rejecting all of the others?
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
But anyway, what about The Bhagavad Gita? The Qur'an? The Adi Granth? The Kitáb-i-Aqdas? The Agam Sutras? The Tripitaka? The Avesta? Why should we uncritically accept your holy book without question while rejecting all of the others?

Welp I just gave you one good answer. Because Jehovah claims to be God and provides evidence of it by raising up witnesses for his name and has given them knowledge of the future and what he intends to do. Let these other gods to the same. Jehovah not only promises it he carries out his word. We can be sure just as he promised to raise up witnesses to his name Jehovah to proclaim in all the earth what he will do and it is happening today, he will also fulfill what he said he will do after he raises up witnesses for his name to declare in all the earth what he is going to do for mankind.

You are watching with your very eyes Bible prophecy in fulfillment. This is proof of Jehovah's Godship. And proof that the others are false. It would behoove everyone seeing this to pay attention before he fulfills his promises completely.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The most important thing I can get from the Bible is that one can say they have a Faith and at the same time be dead.

Our own actions bring upon that death, in life and it was Jesus the Christ that offered that the dead can bury the dead.

One God wants life for us, it is us that chooses death.

Regards Tony
The implication that idol worshippers are spiritually dead is manifestly false given the abundant spirituality of the Asian people Tony. Consider for example Gandhi who did more for interfaith relations than Jesus.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Welp I just gave you one good answer. Because Jehovah claims to be God and provides evidence of it by raising up witnesses for his name and has given them knowledge of the future and what he intends to do. Let these other gods to the same. Jehovah not only promises it he carries out his word. We can be sure just as he promised to raise up witnesses to his name Jehovah to proclaim in all the earth what he will do and it is happening today, he will also fulfill what he said he will do after he raises up witnesses for his name to declare in all the earth what he is going to do for mankind.

You are watching with your very eyes Bible prophecy in fulfillment. This is proof of Jehovah's Godship. And proof that the others are false. It would behoove everyone seeing this to pay attention before he fulfills his promises completely.
But those other scriptures say similar things and different things, so the hundred million dollar question is why the Bible is the ONLY scripture that carries the authority from God for humanity? Can you prove that? If not, it is only a belief, not a fact. Moreover, Christians have different beliefs yet they are all reading from the same Bible, so what is to say that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one and the others are incorrect?
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The implication that idol worshippers are spiritually dead is manifestly false given the abundant spirituality of the Asian people Tony. Consider for example Gandhi who did more for interfaith relations than Jesus.

I do not see that is the implication of those verses.

Spiritual life lays in practice, so those that practice the virtues are in the context of the verse, are alive.

At the same time there are many levels of life/awareness, which we can then meditate upon this saying;

"The good deeds of the righteous, are the sins of the near one's".

Big topic, hard to put in a nutshell.

Regards Tony
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
"The good deeds of the righteous, are the sins of the near one's".

Big topic, hard to put in a nutshell.
No its a simple topic Tony, idol worship is completely unnafective of a person's ability to do righteousness, it has neither positive nor negative effect on a person's virtue ability.
To say that the righteousness of the far ones are the sins of the near ones is simply to slander idol worshippers as being far from God on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. It is ego that tells you that non-idol worshippers are near whilst idol worshippers are far.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No its a simple topic Tony, idol worship is completely unnafective of a person's ability to do righteousness, it has neither positive nor negative effect on a person's virtue ability.
To say that the righteousness of the far ones are the sins of the near ones is simply to slander idol worshippers as being far from God on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. It is ego that tells you that non-idol worshippers are near whilst idol worshippers are far.

You have misunderstood what was posted.

Regards Tony
 
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