• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Regarding Original Sin and Morality

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Of course we have to use our own discernments. To have someone dictate to them something, and they you simply obey that without question or personal examination, means that you have not yet integrated it into yourself. It's not personally owned by you. In other words, you are not taking responsibility. For instance, "It's not my idea this is wrong, it's God's idea. He says so in his book."

That is not understanding ethics as an adult. It's not true morality at that point. A mature morality or ethic, comes from inside oneself, which guides their choices. You can't go run to a book and try to determine the ethical choice, when you have no internal moral compass of your own.

This illustration perfectly captures this:

View attachment 44453

But like I previously stated to Treasure Hunter:

"From all of my years on Internet forums I would say that the vast majority of Christians only make, at best, a token attempt at following the "moral" commandments in their bible. Easily throwing them to the wayside if they get in the way of their desires."

As while what you stated is a nice ideal, it's very rare for any Christian to actually be that way. It's usually all talk, and no "do". Most every time I remind Christian Internet posters that "good works" are required also, they go berserk and insist that "once "saved" always saved" no matter what they do. And when I post the verses showing that "good works" are required also, they either totally spaz out or run off without replying.

If they did, then they have no idea what the doctrine of original sin is about. ;) Original sin, simply has to do with our propensity to try to avoid God, really. It has to do with the fallen state we experience as humans where we are disconnected from ourselves, from others, and from nature and God itself. It's the existential angst, wanting transcendence, yet not willing to surrender to the divine.

I haven't seen that interpretation of the "original sin" myth before. What Christian denomination teaches that?

What they should view instead, is probably that they are actually fulfilling the higher spiritual path. "In that day my words shall be written on the tablets of their hearts". In other words, you don't need a book. You naturally do the will of the divine in all you do.

Ah, now you're getting to the best option.

One of the spiritual abilities God has given me is what is called the true "Spirit of God". Which makes me completely aware of all my thoughts and actions, and helps me keep them in accord with God's laws, his nature, and plan for all souls. This makes determining "right from wrong" in any situation soooo easy!
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But like I previously stated to Treasure Hunter:

"From all of my years on Internet forums I would say that the vast majority of Christians only make, at best, a token attempt at following the "moral" commandments in their bible. Easily throwing them to the wayside if they get in the way of their desires."

As while what you stated is a nice ideal, it's very rare for any Christian to actually be that way. It's usually all talk, and no "do". Most every time I remind Christian Internet posters that "good works" are required also, they go berserk and insist that "once "saved" always saved" no matter what they do. And when I post the verses showing that "good works" are required also, they either totally spaz out or run off without replying.
I hear you. It is my single disappointment with them. They taught me the symbols, yet they didn't hear them themselves. Instead the symbols were used to justify their fears and prejudices behind a mask of religiosity.

I haven't seen that interpretation of the "original sin" myth before. What Christian denomination teaches that?
My own, I suppose. ;) It's how I hear the myth. Not just that way alone though. There's lots of layers to it to unfold. Lots of truths hidden within it. To say "it means this", and put a period at the end of that, closes it off from revealing truth. It's our story as humans. What is it to exist? Why do we feel connected, yet disconnected? All these deep questions of our being.

And the funny thing, some try to read Genesis as a book of science! Creationism, and such. :)

Ah, now you're getting to the best option.

One of the spiritual abilities God has given me is what is called the true "Spirit of God". Which makes me completely aware of all my thoughts and actions, and helps me keep them in accord with God's laws, his nature, and plan for all souls. This makes determining "right from wrong" in any situation soooo easy!
That's an interesting statement. What you describe sounds to me, using other terms, as the "Witnessing state". That is where we see our thoughts, and our patterns of behaviors, without identifying with them as "us". It's a dispassionate state, where you have thoughts, but you're not those thoughts, have feelings, but you're not those feelings, and such. I'm curious if that is what you are describing. I am familiar with this.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Windwalker and anyone else with an interest:

I would recommend three modern stories that will help to reveal the Adam story. Two movies by Christopher Nolan: Inception and Memento. And then a German Netflix series called ‘Dark’. I would also suggest looking at the Gospel of Thomas.

There are two versions of the Adam story. One of them we have kept concealed from ourselves but life is trying to help us understand it through some of our modern day stories.

The story of Adam/Christ/Son of Man interlink to the patterns of human consciousness. Our quality of life is based on our acting out the right pattern.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
That's an interesting statement. What you describe sounds to me, using other terms, as the "Witnessing state". That is where we see our thoughts, and our patterns of behaviors, without identifying with them as "us". It's a dispassionate state, where you have thoughts, but you're not those thoughts, have feelings, but you're not those feelings, and such. I'm curious if that is what you are describing. I am familiar with this.

Yes and no.

Strange you should use the term "dispassionate", because yes, I have always been mostly void of most of the lower emotions, like hate, jealousy, etc., so that my thinking is clear and sound without any interference from any of them. Making it easy to do the "right thing" by what my Spirit of God tells me should be done, without any emotions getting in the way to "make" me do other than what I should.

But no, I always still have a strong sense that my thoughts are my thoughts. The Spirit of God is completely integrated into my soul, so there is no division.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes and no.

Strange you should use the term "dispassionate", because yes, I have always been mostly void of most of the lower emotions, like hate, jealousy, etc., so that my thinking is clear and sound without any interference from any of them. Making it easy to do the "right thing" by what my Spirit of God tells me should be done, without any emotions getting in the way to "make" me do other than what I should.

But no, I always still have a strong sense that my thoughts are my thoughts. The Spirit of God is completely integrated into my soul, so there is no division.
I believe we are speaking of the same thing, but the difficulty is in putting it into language. I should clarify that yes, you recognize the thoughts as your own thoughts. They aren't seen as foreign or other to yourself. It's most certainly not a case of dissociation. You recognize them as your own thoughts, you own them.

However, the key difference between the dispassionate, or to use the term from Buddhism, "non-attachment", and the otherwise "normal" state of consciousness, is that we don't identify with the content of the thoughts, investing our egoic self with them. We have a thought about some situation, or thing that was said to us, or something we said, and we become concerned, upset, protective of the content of the thought as reflective of our self-identity. It's about seeing an image of ourselves, invested within the thoughts. "I'm not that bad, am I?", sort of identification.

"I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts", means we don't see them as the truth of who and what we are. I have a foot, but I am not my foot. I have a body, it is my body, but my body is not who I am. I have thoughts, they are my thoughts, but my thoughts are not who I am. And so forth.

It has to do with the center of gravity of our self-identifications, and along with that, where the focus of our energies goes into. If we are caught up in the normal thought cycles, replaying that same narrative over and over all day long, thinking of the past, worrying about the future, getting upset about everything that leads us into self-protection of that egoic construction of the mind we call "me", that which we identify ourselves with and as, that leads to a drain of what I call our daily reserves of divine energies.

When we are able to quite their voices, or at the very least our responses to them when they habitual arise within our thoughts, then it is as you say. You are in touch with Reality, or Spirit, or God, and you become led by that, because you are Aware of it. It's like turning down the blaring rock and roll music on your stereo and hearing the birds outside chirping. They've been there the whole time, but you weren't listening. You were distracted by the sound of your own thoughts.

Make sense?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Who told you that?
The oldest bible in known existence states "kill".
For the Christian "god" has an evil and horrifically cruel idea of what "righteous judgement" is.

I wonder what Rabbi would teach you that Exodus 20:13 is Not speaking about murder __________
After the Flood people were allowed to ' kill ' animals for food but that was Not considered as murder.
Righteous judgement is for people of good will.
People who learn to be peaceable people - Micah 4:3-4; Isaiah 2:4
Jesus takes the action to end wickedness on Earth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalms 92:7
That is Not cruel, but an execution for the sake of the righteous, the humble meek who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11.
 
Top