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Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

tigger2

Active Member
Concerning Oeste's (post #695)

Nearly all early writings of Christians have been copied, recopied, etc. by Church copyists through the centuries who would not dare add to or change the manuscript copy in an 'unorthodox' way. The consequences would have been dire for them if they had. But adding to or changing their copies to advance the "orthodox" teaching of the time was usually overlooked.

The various ever-changing copies of Ignatius are probably as bad as any of them.

"The special attention of all interested in the Ignatian controversy is invited to the two chapters of this work in which the subject is investigated. Evidence is there produced to prove that these Ignatian letters, even as edited by the very learned and laborious Doctor Cureton, are utterly spurious, and that they should be swept away from among the genuine remains of early Church literature" - The Ancient Church, by noted Presbyterian scholar Dr. William D. Killen.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
A. John 1:1c

The late Dr. Julius Mantey, noted NT Greek scholar and strong trinitarian, allegedly wrote a powerful attack against the accuracy and honesty of the NWT. We will look at a point raised concerning the NWT in a July 11, 1974 letter to the Watchtower Society attributed to Mantey (when he was 84!) which anti-Watchtower writers are fond of reproducing and quoting.

John 1:1

His first concern was with John 1:1. His complaint that the WT Society dishonestly used his book to support their translation is incredible! It’s undoubtedly true that he didn’t intend anything in his book to support a non-trinitarian interpretation of John 1:1. (The Watchtower Society never claimed he did.) But the fact is that Mantey's own translation found in his Grammar does support it nevertheless! The quote by the Society refers to an example used by Mantey in his book which is grammatically identical to John 1:1 (articular subject after the copulative verb and anarthrous predicate noun before the copulative verb) and which Mantey has translated as, “and the place was a market" - p. 148, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, Macmillan Publishing Co., 1957 ed. - an exact parallel to the NWT’s “and the Word was a god.” - see NWT 25-28.


We can see the very same thing happening with all such parallel examples found in John's writings. The most important exception would be with anarthrous predicate nouns which are modified by prepositions or genitives.

Here are a number of respected trinitarian scholars writing about the use and non-use of the definite article with "prepositional" and genitive-modified anarthrous nouns:

+++ As Dana and Mantey tell us, “The use of prepositions, possessive ... pronouns, and the genitive case also tend to make a word definite. At such times, even if the article is not used, the object is already distinctly indicated.” - p. 137, D&M Grammar.

+++ In section VIII, ‘The Absence of the Article,’ Professor A. T. Robertson quotes Gildersleeve and tells us, “prepositional phrases and other formulae may dispense with the article” - p. 790. And “(b) with GENITIVES. We have seen that the substantive MAY still be definite if anarthrous, though not necessarily so. Cf. pulai hadou (Matt. 16:18), anastasis nekron (Acts 23:6), [etc.]” - p. 791, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament .

And, this highly respected trinitarian New Testament Greek authority also tells us:


“In examples like this [“prepositional” constructions] (cf. ... Mt. 27:54) ONLY THE CONTEXT CAN DECIDE [whether the anarthrous noun is definite or indefinite]. Sometimes the matter is wholly doubtful.... [Please note that the example Robertson has given (Matt. 27:54) has the anarthrous predicate noun coming before the verb as in Colwell’s Rule!] In Jo. 5:27 [‘son of man’] may be either ‘the son of man’ or ‘a son of man.’” - p. 781. [Robertson says this in spite of the fact that John 5:27 also has an anarthrous predicate noun preceding its verb!! It’s “prepositional” (noun modified by a genitive noun in these cases) and, therefore, the use/non-use of the article is ambiguous!] - A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, A. T. Robertson, 1934.

+++ C. F. D. Moule says: “9. Finally, note that the use or non-use of the article may, in some cases, be due to the influence of Semitic idiom rather than deliberate desire to modify the sense. A noun in the construct case [similar to a noun modified by a genitive noun in NT Greek, e.g., ‘man of God’] in Hebrew is never allowed to carry the article, and this may sometimes be sufficient to explain an anarthrous noun in a Greek equivalent phrase: aggelos kuriou might be a Hebraism for the angel of the Lord; so doxa kuriou.” – p. 117, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

+++ J. H. Moulton tells us: “the matter [of identifying an anarthrous ‘spirit’] is complicated threefold by the question of the non-use of the art[icle] with proper nouns, and in prepositional expressions ..., and even (in Biblical Greek through influence of the Heb. construct state) before a genitive. In none of these situations need the lack of the art[icle] indicate any indefiniteness of reference” - p. 175. And, “(d) Absence of Article before a noun which governs a genitive. In Heb. a noun may be in the construct state or have a suffix attached to it, and in either case it would be anarthrous. This influenced the LXX [Septuagint] and, in turn, the NT writers in varying degrees. Thus aggelos kuriou is not ‘an angel’ but the angel’, doxa laou is ‘the glory’.” - pp. 179-180, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, vol. III, J. H. Moulton, 1963.

+++ “The article … is sometimes missing, especially after prepositions … and with a genitive which depends on an anarthrous noun (especially a predicate noun): Mt 27:43.” - Blass & Debrunner, A Greek Grammar of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature, p. 133, University of Chicago Press, 1961.


+++ - "A genitive qualifier tends to make the head noun definite even though it might not have the article." - Dr. Richard A. Young, Intermediate New Testament Greek, p. 67, Broadman and Holman Publ., 1994.

+++ Henry Alford wrote concerning Titus 2:13 in his The Greek Testament, “It [‘saviour’] is joined with [hmwn, ‘of us’ (genitive)], which is an additional reason why it may spare the article: see Luke 1:78; Ro. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3” - p. 420, The Greek Testament, by Henry Alford.

+++ “….(2) definiteness is not expressed only by the article but may [not always] also be indicated by an accompanying genitive or possessive pronoun; …(4) Biblical Greek sometimes reflects the Semitic idiom in which the noun in the construct state [comparable to ‘angel of Lord’], even if definite, is anarthrous … and (5) there is a tendency for nouns to be anarthrous that are used in familiar or stereotyped expressions that may date from the prearticular age of Greek - expressions such as idiomatic prepositional phrases.” - p. 304, Jesus as God, Murray J. Harris, Baker Book House, 1992. (Emphasis added)

+++ “#1146. A substantive followed by an attributive genitive and forming with it a compound idea, usually omits the article.” - H. W. Smyth’s A Greek Grammar for Colleges, p. 291.

+++ Also see pp. 150-151 in Dr. G.B. Winer's A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek.

Since John 1:1c does not have its predicate noun with a “prepositional” construction anyway, it is necessarily a part of proper research to select parallel examples (i.e., without “prepositional” constructions) in any attempt to show a similar effect as claimed for John 1:1c.

I think trinitarian translators don't want to say that "the Word was the God" when they translate John 1:1c as "the Word was God". Here is an interesting article which incorporates ideas you have brought up in this post and in your next post (post 700).
Quartz Hill School of Theology
It is long however, and if you want to really get into it the links are also good. This one contains some information about a lot of things to do with the Deity of Jesus and also gives information about deceptive WT quotes...........if you are interested.
Quartz Hill School of Theology
 

Bree

Active Member
So much debating about Jesus being 'a God' or being the Almighty God.... No one can be the Almighty except Jehovah himself. His firstborn son is a powerful spirit being, that makes him godlike and he most certainly can be 'a god' in that sense because the expression 'god' means 'a mighty one' Jesus has been given the highest position next to the Father and therefore should most certainly be viewed as such. But that does not make him God Almighty. The hebrew scriptures are very clear that the Almighty is Jehovah and 'there is no God besides me'
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
So much debating about Jesus being 'a God' or being the Almighty God.... No one can be the Almighty except Jehovah himself. His firstborn son is a powerful spirit being, that makes him godlike and he most certainly can be 'a god' in that sense because the expression 'god' means 'a mighty one' Jesus has been given the highest position next to the Father and therefore should most certainly be viewed as such. But that does not make him God Almighty. The hebrew scriptures are very clear that the Almighty is Jehovah and 'there is no God besides me'

John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

The Word cannot have been made if all things that have been made, were made through Him.

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Jesus is not a creature if all creatures are before the throne where Jesus is. The 4 living creatures worshipped.

Isa 8:13 The LORD of Hosts is the One you shall regard as holy. Only He should be feared; only He should be dreaded. 14And He will be a sanctuary— but to both houses of Israel a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, to the dwellers of Jerusalem a trap and a snare.

1 Peter 2:7 To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word— and to this they were appointed.

Jesus is the LORD of Hosts, Jehovah.

Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.…

What is the name above all names? I would say Jehovah. It is no wonder that the New World Translation obscures this by putting "other" before "name" when "other" is not in the Greek text.

Romans 10:8.............that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

When we call on the name of Jesus, we are calling on the name of Jehovah. Jesus is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him.

Acts 4:11 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
 

Bree

Active Member
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

The Word cannot have been made if all things that have been made, were made through Him.

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Jesus is not a creature if all creatures are before the throne where Jesus is. The 4 living creatures worshipped.

Isa 8:13 The LORD of Hosts is the One you shall regard as holy. Only He should be feared; only He should be dreaded. 14And He will be a sanctuary— but to both houses of Israel a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, to the dwellers of Jerusalem a trap and a snare.

1 Peter 2:7 To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word— and to this they were appointed.

Jesus is the LORD of Hosts, Jehovah.

Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.…

What is the name above all names? I would say Jehovah. It is no wonder that the New World Translation obscures this by putting "other" before "name" when "other" is not in the Greek text.

Romans 10:8.............that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

When we call on the name of Jesus, we are calling on the name of Jehovah. Jesus is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him.

Acts 4:11 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
 

Bree

Active Member
Brian i appreciate that all these verses could seemingly be applied in the way you think.

However, im curious as to how you might interpret Pauls words found at 1Cor15:24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.+ 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.+ 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.+ 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.”+ But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’+ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.+ 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him,+ that God may be all things to everyone.+

When Jesus subjects himself to the Father, who will you subject yourself to? Jesus or the Father Jehovah?



 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Brian i appreciate that all these verses could seemingly be applied in the way you think.

However, im curious as to how you might interpret Pauls words found at 1Cor15:24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.+ 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.+ 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.+ 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.”+ But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’+ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.+ 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him,+ that God may be all things to everyone.+

When Jesus subjects himself to the Father, who will you subject yourself to? Jesus or the Father Jehovah?

The short answer is that I will be subject to Jesus and the Father. They are both the one Jehovah.
A longer answer might go something like this.
Jehovah is the only saviour. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all Jehovah, are involved in that salvation. When Jesus finished His work on earth the Father glorified Him by letting all of us know that He is Lord of all (that He is Jehovah) and that we will all bow to Him. Jesus was given all power and authority in heaven and earth and the Father puts all under His feet. (another part of the work of salvation). When all of this salvation work is finished Jesus still rules on the throne of David as King over the Kingdom on earth and throughout everywhere that this Kingdom increases to.
Jesus however is the Son and is naturally subject to His Father. Jesus is also still a man and His Father became His God when He became a man, in the womb of Mary.
Psalm 22:9 Yet You brought me forth from the womb; You made me secure at my mother’s breast. 10 From birth I was cast upon You; from my mother’s womb You have been my God.
When the work is done then Jesus will also subject Himself to His Father again even while He rules as King over God's Kingdom. This after all is what the Son has done from eternity. He has been the Son who is subject to His Father even though He has been equal in nature all the time. (Phil 2, Heb 1:3 etc)

Zechariah 14:16
Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Rev 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.
Ezek 37:26 And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people.28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is among them forever.’ ”
Col 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
Ephesians 2:22 - In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
John 2:19 Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.
Zech 2:10 “Shout and be glad, Daughter Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,” declares the Lord. 11 “Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you. 12 The Lord will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be still before the Lord, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.”

It is interesting that the last quote (Zech 2) shows us that Jehovah was sent by Jehovah.
 

Bree

Active Member
Everything Jesus submits himself to do is for the purpose of mankind being reunited with Jehovah.

If a person is not united with Jehovah, they will not see life because "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Acts 2:21

Regardless of how we view Jesus identity, It will always be Jehovah who decides our fate.

 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Everything Jesus submits himself to do is for the purpose of mankind being reunited with Jehovah.

If a person is not united with Jehovah, they will not see life because "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Acts 2:21

Regardless of how we view Jesus identity, It will always be Jehovah who decides our fate.

Of course, Jesus who is Jehovah will decide our fate and He will do it according to the will of God because he is God. He and the Father are one Jehovah.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Psalm 82:8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

Psalm 2:8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”
10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Psalm 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him, and he delivers them. 8Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!

Psalm 98:8 Let the rivers clap their hands, let the mountains sing together for joy 9before the LORD, for He comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness and the peoples with equity.

Rev 22:12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

Who is coming to judge in righteousness and reward and rule and judge the nations? Who inherits the nations? In whom should we take refuge?
The answer is always Jehovah.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Everything Jesus submits himself to do is for the purpose of mankind being reunited with Jehovah.

If a person is not united with Jehovah, they will not see life because "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Acts 2:21

Regardless of how we view Jesus identity, It will always be Jehovah who decides our fate.
"Jehovah" is a hypothetical name since the Tanakh does not include vowels, plus there's no "J" sound in Hebrew. Also, there are numerous other names for God in the Tanakh.
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If a person is not united with Jehovah, they will not see life because "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Acts 2:21

REGARDING SPURIOUS TEXT

I just wanted to make the point that there is no Greek source text of the new testament that uses "Jehovah" in this verse. I`m traveling and do not have a gn-4 or NA critical, but I think this is not an authentic quote of biblical text.

Clear
 

Bree

Active Member
"Jehovah" is a hypothetical name since the Tanakh does not include vowels, plus there's no "J" sound in Hebrew. Also, there are numerous other names for God in the Tanakh.
And yet we are happy to say Jerusalem with a J
And Jesus with a J
And Jehosophat with a J
And Jeremiah with a J

all these names are spelt with a Y in hebrew. Semantics is not worth debating. Y converts to J from hebrew to english, its that simple.
 
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Bree

Active Member
"Jehovah" is a hypothetical name since the Tanakh does not include vowels, plus there's no "J" sound in Hebrew. Also, there are numerous other names for God in the Tanakh.

Peter is here quoting Joel 2:32 from the hebrew scriptures. That verse uses the tetragrammaton (YHWH) So it stands to good logic that when he was quoting that text he would have recognised Gods name and spoken it just as Jesus would have. And more importantly, if a bible translator comes across passages of the hebrew scriptures with the name of God in the form of the Tetragrammaton, they would do the right thing and use Gods name in that place rather then replace the name with an obscure title.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Peter is here quoting Joel 2:32 from the hebrew scriptures. That verse uses the tetragrammaton (YHWH) So it stands to good logic that when he was quoting that text he would have recognised Gods name and spoken it just as Jesus would have. And more importantly, if a bible translator comes across passages of the hebrew scriptures with the name of God in the form of the Tetragrammaton, they would do the right thing and use Gods name in that place rather then replace the name with an obscure title.

The very use of God's name in the New Testament of the New World Translation should be an embarrassment for JWs when it is not used in the Greek Manuscripts and when it is not used consistently in the NWT. Some times it is left out when it probably should be used and sometimes it is used when it probably should have been left out, if religious bias was not part of the translation agenda.
 

Bree

Active Member
The very use of God's name in the New Testament of the New World Translation should be an embarrassment for JWs when it is not used in the Greek Manuscripts and when it is not used consistently in the NWT. Some times it is left out when it probably should be used and sometimes it is used when it probably should have been left out, if religious bias was not part of the translation agenda.

I trust the NWT committee...they did an amazing job with their research and due diligence. I would love to see Jehovahs name, the authors name, used in every bible translation. That would be nice.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I trust the NWT committee...they did an amazing job with their research and due diligence. I would love to see Jehovahs name, the authors name, used in every bible translation. That would be nice.

That is the problem for many JWs, they trust the Watch Tower even when it is plain that they have erred, as is replacing Lord with Jehovah in the New Testament when any way anybody could do that would be open to the charge of being biased imo.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
POST ONE OF TWO

I am writing between appointments at work.

1) REGARDING JOHN 1:1C “AND THE WORD WAS A GOD” (....Και ο λογος ην Θεος)

A) WORD ORDER MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO MEANING IN JOHN 1:1c.

Brian2 said : “I wrote that about the word order not making a difference. It is supposed to add an emphasis when the predicate is in the nominative position but I cannot see how this changes the meaning. I could be wrong of course as I am no Greek scholar.

The reason that you cannot see how this changes the meaning is that it doesn’t change any base meaning but may simply emphasize the meaning a sentence already has. “The Word was God” has the same meaning as ‘God was the Word” in the Greek text. Both sentences mean that the word was God in Koine.

@Oeste claimed : “It’s not just John 1:1c @Clear…word order makes a HUGE difference in all of Koine Greek.” (post #693).

And he explained that “, the more to the left an item occurs, the more prominence it has" (post #693)

@Oeste, This “prominence” doesn’t change meaning of words nor does it make a “HUGE” difference in Koine in this Phrase in John 1:1c.
I don’t know why you thought it was important to make this claim.
The word “Theos” still means “God”. “Logos” still means “Logos”. No change in meaning occurs.

Word order doesn’t even change the meaning of “God” into “REALLY, REALLY, God.”. It makes no difference to meaning. If you still think word order in John 1:1c changes the meaning of any word in this sentence, ask someone you know who can read Greek to help you with the concept of “meaning” versus “emphasis”.

Quite a number of translators have used translations which show God in John 1:1c has a qualitative aspect.
I have a 1962 JW booklet "The Word according to John" in which this qualitative aspect is used as part of the WT reasoning for translating John 1:1c as "a god". (p 54,55)
I have already posted other links about this and even one with Jason BeDuhn saying that the WT claims they used this quality reasoning for their translation of John 1:1c. Here is another mention of it which says that the positioning of the word "theos" forward in John 1:1c stresses the qualitative aspect of the word and even quotes Martin Luther to this effect.
Exegetical Insight on John 1:1c by Daniel Wallace
I'm sure most Trinitarian scholars also would agree about the qualitative aspect and the word order as stressing this.
So my conclusion is that the usual rendering of John 1:1c , "the Word was God" does not indicate clearly this qualitative aspect and the NWT rendering "the Word was a god", even though the qualitative aspect is part of the reasoning for that translation, also is not clearly showing that aspect.
iows the NWT is based on context as much as the translation "the Word was God" BUT the WT alters the immediate context of all things having been created through the Word to mean all "other" things. (at least they did that in the booklet I mentioned)(p59) and also have to change the meaning of "In the beginning" to a time after the Word was created instead of the beginning of creation.
So given the immediate context (and using that as an example of what the WT has done with the rest of John's writings about Jesus :) ) I would have to say that "a god" is probably not even possible as a translation.
"god" without the article would probably bring that qualitative aspect out but it would not say what the essence or nature of the Word is, His nature is God.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
And yet we are happy to say Jerusalem with a J
And Jesus with a J
And Jehosophat with a J
And Jeremiah with a J

all these names are spelt with a Y in hebrew. Semantics is not worth debating. Y converts to J from hebrew to english, its that simple.
So, you are willing to be so utterly hypocritical by stating all others must use God's precise name but you and your fellow JW's don't have to abide by your own demands. The names "Jehovah" and "YHWH" are not the same, so repeatedly claiming that they are is completely disingenuous.

In English, most Christian use the name "God", but if we go into Hebrew or Koine Greek we'd be using different names yet. Much the same as you using the name "Jesus" above, whereas the reality is that in Hebrew that's not the name that's used, and in Greek it's yet again different.

IOW, your Governing Body has completely misled you on this, and it's not the only area whereas they've taught you their fabricated lies and/or distortions.
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
CHANGING SACRED TEXTS TO AGREE WITH PERSONAL THEOLOGY

Hi @Bree

Bree quoted Acts 2:21 as "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Acts 2:21 (post #708)
Clear said : " “I just wanted to make the point that there is no Greek source text of the new testament that uses "Jehovah" in this verse. I`m traveling and do not have a gn-4 or NA critical, but I think this is not an authentic quote of biblical text.” (post #711)

Bree said : “Peter is here quoting Joel 2:32 from the hebrew scriptures."

Your explanation simply describes a motive as to why Jehovahs Witnesses created unauthetic New Testament Text. It does not justify creating unauthentic text.


IT IS IMPROPER TO CHANGE THE BIBLICAL TEXT

Not only does Deut 4:2 prohibit us from adding or taking away from the text, we are not to “add thereto, nor diminish from it. (Deut 12:32) Revelations 22:18-20, similarly, prohibits this, adding that “If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.


THERE ARE REASONS WHY WE ARE NOT TO CHANGE AUTHENTIC TEXT

Whether Peter himself modified a Jewish Masoretic text or simply was quoting the Jewish LXX (which DOES read "the Lord") the authentic New Testament text tells us that Peter used the appellation “Lord” instead of “Jehovah”.

While changing the authentic text to agree with a specific theology may feel “logical”, one must consider that the Apostle Peter may have had his own reason for writing the authentic text.

For example, If Peter was using the Jewish LXX text (the most common text of the earliest Judeo-Christian movement) then the text would have read as Peter quoted it and not as the Jehovahs Witnesses modified it to read.

For example, The group Peter was speaking to was of mixed nations and so Paul and this makes it even more likely that Peter may have been quoting the more common language and using the version of text they may have been familiar with. It would have read just as the New Testament Quotes it and not as the Jehovahs Witnesses modified it.

And, importantly, if Peter wanted to confirm to his audience that the Lord WAS the Jehovah of the Old testament, then Peter may have wanted to equate “the Lord” with Jehovah just as the authentic text reads and not as the Jehovahs Witnesses have modified it.

Regardless your motives to modify authentic text, there are good reasons why we are told not to modify the sacred text to read according to our personal theology but instead, to allow the text to say just what it says. And importantly, there is no New Testament source text that supports the Jehovahs Witnesses in modifying the Greek source text so as to make the text appear to more closely agree with their theology.

In any case. I do understand the temptation to change the text to agree with one's theology. It is simply a step further to reading into a text, one's personal theology. We all tend to do this. Still, the text says what it says.

In any case Bree. I hope your spiritual journey is insightful and wonderful.

Clear
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