Wow. Gross distortion of the facts. Economic records were being broken left and right under Trump.
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Median Income Down $6500 If Biden Wins
- Thread starter esmith
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The only distortion is you not wanting to acknowledge the growth began under Obama and did not have any significant upticks that made it particularily better under Trump. Rather it was a steady rate at basically the same pace set by Obama.
Obama’s 2009 Recovery Act Kicked Off Over 10 Years Of Economic Growth
I acknowledged the growth under Obama. So no distortion here.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Exactly. Trump carried on (and underperformed in some areas) what Obama began.
But it's what Trump is known for. When it's something someone else set up (like the family business) he does ok enough. But when it's all on him (in this case a plan and strategy to recovery from Covid) it's a disaster. We see why so often went bankrupt as a businessman, because he commits to poor decisions. No matter the evidence, no matter what happens, he sticks to it. That's probably how he bankrupt a casino (because the house should not be losing money as long as people are playing). And just like typical Trump, he leaves the mess for others to pick up.
ReluctantMathematician
Member
That is extrapolating 10 years out, I don't even need to see behind the paywall to know that is just nonsense.
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Mr Spinkles
Mr
We both provided our opinion. But I backed up mine with facts. Obama left office with unemployment at ~4%. Candidate Trump called the unemployment numbers fake because they were so good. Now unemployment is double that under Trump and he has not released a plan to safely reopen. Biden has.
Those are just facts.
tytlyf
Not Religious
I will note that the only media outlets involved with all these Biden conspiracies are owned by Rupert Murdoch.
NYPost, Fox 'news,' Fox 'business,' WSJ.
All the same company. No one else is covering it because it's not verified. That's not journalistic.
BTW, "Hunters laptop" was never Hunters. The FBI have had this 'laptop' since December, when Rudy Giuliani got busted for suspected Money Laundering. Now Rudy wants everyone to believe it's some different money laundering scheme involving the Biden's.
Those phones? Given to the FBI? Probably nothing on them. Public won't know if anything is on them until after the election anyways. But that allows them to insinuate a grand false narrative.
Pay attention to RW media tomorrow talk about he military service of the guy with phones. They'll use his service as a means to gain trust in what is said....every talking head will refer to his service.
But these same Foxers disparaged Lt Col Vindman over and over, more proof Fox and their Ilk destroy democracy.
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Mr Spinkles
Mr
The actual data for GDP growth tells a different story.
Here’s quarterly historical GDP growth:
And here’s GDP:
As you can plainly see, Obama inherited negative growth. Trump inherited a boom.
Average GDP growth under Obama: about 4%.
Average under Trump **before** COVID: about 4%.
Number of rapid tests and contact tracers Trump has deployed so we can reopen the economy: ZERO. None. Not a one. He’s literally holding super-spreader events. Think that will help businesses reopen?
Sorry, those are the facts. Data and viruses can’t just be lied away.
Presidents frankly don’t have a huge impact on the economy except in special circumstances. COVID is one of those special circumstances where what we are doing will have a dramatic effect on how deep the recession will be. The only remarkable difference in the data between Obama and Trump is the COVID recession and Donald “it will go away like a miracle” and “drink bleach” Trump is the least equipped person to respond intelligently to it.
Trump literally has no plan to reopen the economy given COVID. That is by far the biggest thing a president could have an influence on regarding the economy since the Great Recession. Trump’s plan is thoughts and prayers.
Sources:
Gross Domestic Product
United States GDP Growth Rate | 1947-2020 Data | 2021-2022 Forecast | Calendar
Attachments
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Mr Spinkles
Mr
The WSJ did not “report” that. The WSJ Opinion pages cited a projection by a conservative think tank.
That opinion page is owned by the Murdoch family, the same lovely people who brought us Fox News.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Really? Which ones? Be specific.
Methinks you have been listening to the President’s Tweets and mistaking them with facts.
Friend of Mara
Active Member
It depends. For sure I have seen articles that say the exact opposite but lets propose for a moment that everything in the 2nd and 3rd articles are correct (No idea about the first. pay wall)
This is about "potential wealth". America currently makes 65k a year per household as a median. By the year 2030 they are claiming that a total loss of 6.5 k a year will be offset from the potential growth but not an actual decrease of current earnings. The same is said for total number of jobs would be 4.9 less though they themselves said he would be creating 1.2 or 1.3 million new jobs in the energy sector.
it said for "each household" which means it would be the mean not the median. Unless there is some other argument made for this number I don't know why they said median. Which is very important. 99% of new wealth goes to the top 1-3% of people (depending on which source you look at) so the largest burden of this loss of wealth would be by those who accumulated the most wealth. The Median income might not loose 6.5k but as an average GDP we might loose 6.5. Just to put context to these numbers if every man woman and child got an even split of the "average" GDP of the US in 2019 it would be 65k. Which is roughly equal to the median household income of a full family of 4.
So lets take that all aside and still say that the initial claim is that it would make every loose out on a potential 6.5k in average wealth over 10 years. It is still worth it to preserve the ecosystems we live in. It is still worth it to provide healthcare to citizens and have a better education system. If we keep trucking at the rate we are going our GDP will eventually be zero if we have a biodiversity collapse.
When **** is broke it cost money to fix it.
What's the predicted change if Trump wins?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
That is like predicting what the altitude of a plane will be if a toddler remains in the cockpit.
Not sure about that, but happy to read anything you provide.
This seems fairly balanced, and offers comment on a few claims along these lines.
The economy under Trump was doing well. It was doing well under Obama also.
US 2020 election: The economy under Trump in six charts
Heh...I tend to agree. But I work in an industry where 25 year plans (mostly guesswork) and five year plans are common on a large scale.
I'm interested in what their modelling suggests about life under Trump. I'm clueless as to what use a single 'what-if' scenario is, without comparitives. Apart from political positioning, of course.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Rainbows, unicorns, and pots of gold for all, of course. You just have to work for it, and all the wealth in the world will be yours under Trump.
tytlyf
Not Religious
A lot of people on the right think the economy under Obama was the worst in American history. Millions of people who vote.
They don't understand the fact Donald inherited a strong economy and have been riding it's coattails. But like all republicans, they destroy it.
esmith
Veteran Member
Hmmm, let set this is the year 2020, almost 2021, the article referenced 2030. I don't know where you went to school but 2030-2021 is 9, not 20. I see why your handle is RelucatantMathematician.
ReluctantMathematician
Member
Yeah, sorry about that, my mistake. I often forget it is 2020, and 2010 seems like yesterday. Doesn't really matter though, extrapolating 10 years out is still stupid.
esmith
Veteran Member
No problem, try remembering what year it is when you were born in 1942.......seems like the years are flying by.