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If there is no God who started the universe

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
I dont, its other who always ask for proof because they them self do not belief.

The reason for my op was to see if you could come up with proof God does not exist, but none have done so
I only ask for supporting evidence when a religious person tries to push their beliefs on me. I don't care what anyone believes on their own time if they're not bothering anyone. At that point, what's the problem?
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The evidence is our minds, if you see a door then you believe a carpenter was behind it
regardless that you see him or not, just your mind realizes how things worked.
Sounds like you're saying that some things are designed, some things aren't, and we can tell the difference by looking at them.

So do you believe that there are things that are undesigned? ;)
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
The reason for my op was to see if you could come up with proof God does not exist, but none have done so
That still isn't what your OP actually said. You asked for an alternative possibility to the possibility you hinted at (since you never defined how you believe God was related to that start of the universe and/or existence). There was nothing about proving or disproving anything, especially not God (by any definition). A god could exist but not have created the universe and the universe could have been created by something other than a god (certainly other than your specific image of God).

If you'd actually asked if anyone could disprove God, you'd get some "No, so what?" answers and a whole load of "You need to define God first" answers.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Sounds like you're saying that some things are designed, some things aren't, and we can tell the difference by looking at them.

So do you believe that there are things that are undesigned? ;)

I believe a designed thing needs a designer, once we realize that our
bodies are designed then there was a designer.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe a designed thing needs a designer, once we realize that our
bodies are designed then there was a designer.

And if we realize they are NOT designed?

You see, that is one of the points at issue: are our bodies designed? or do they form from natural processes?

I would also point out that even if our bodies *are* designed, that in no way proves the existence of a deity.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
If there as been a series of big bangs over billions of years,what cased the first big bang?
To use a Buddhist approach, what difference does it make today?

OTOH, it's a great debate question but with no objective answer.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
To use a Buddhist approach, what difference does it make today?

OTOH, it's a great debate question but with no objective answer.
The purpose of the OP is gone, thats ok :)
But i was hoping to gaine answer from somewho do n8t believe in a God, to answer how else could the existence start, but it did not come an answer to it.

So i leaving this thread for now :)
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
And if we realize they are NOT designed?

You see, that is one of the points at issue: are our bodies designed? or do they form from natural processes?

I would also point out that even if our bodies *are* designed, that in no way proves the existence of a deity.

If designed then there's a designer, if you don't want to call the designer as a deity
then you can call him *X*.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
If designed then there's a designer, if you don't want to call the designer as a deity
then you can call him *X*.

IF it is designed, there is a designer. Sure.

But that designer could be something from another solar system. There is no reason to think it had to be a deity. And, there is no reason to think that the designer's intentions were good for us. We *could* be a herd animal being cultivated for our food value.

My point is that you make two leaps: one in saying our bodies are designed and the other in saying any designer had to be a supernatural intelligence.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
The purpose of the OP is gone, thats ok :)
But i was hoping to gaine answer from somewho do n8t believe in a God, to answer how else could the existence start, but it did not come an answer to it.
This is a religious forum (and the "Interfaith Discussion" section at that). Maybe you'll take my initial advice and seek information about the Big Bang theory from formal scientific sources and thus get an answer to the question you claimed to want. Unfortunately, I think that is unlikely.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What are the undesigned things? I didn't get your point.
I mean that arguing - as you did - that there's a way to tell designed things from undesigned things implies that there are things that weren't designed by God.

My point is that when you argue that certain things show signs of design - regardless of what you argue those signs are - then you're also arguing that when anything lacks those signs, this implies it wasn't designed.

For example, you mentioned a door. If you found a door lying on a beach, we would recognize that the door is designed in a way that the beach was not.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I mean that arguing - as you did - that there's a way to tell designed things from undesigned things implies that there are things that weren't designed by God.

My point is that when you argue that certain things show signs of design - regardless of what you argue those signs are - then you're also arguing that when anything lacks those signs, this implies it wasn't designed.

For example, you mentioned a door. If you found a door lying on a beach, we would recognize that the door is designed in a way that the beach was not.

Did we ever find a fossil for human with wings? during evolution we should find
creatures that don't look well and failed to reproduce, where are these creatures
that failed during evolution, such as finding creatures with one leg.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Did we ever find a fossil for human with wings? during evolution we should find
creatures that don't look well and failed to reproduce, where are these creatures
that failed during evolution, such as finding creatures with one leg.

It really is difficult to know where to start when somebody packs so much misunderstanding into so few words.

Firstly, sprouting wings is not something that is going to happen in a single step and then fail. Changes that failed, just like individual changes that succeeded, would be relatively small and probably not easily recognised in a fossil. Changes that you can easily identify are going to be the accumulation of a number of small, successful ones.

Secondly, fossilisation is an incredibly rare event. The chances of catching an individual with a failed change (which would, by definition, not last long in the population) would be tiny.

Thirdly, every extinct species is actually a change that ultimately failed.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Did we ever find a fossil for human with wings? during evolution we should find
creatures that don't look well and failed to reproduce, where are these creatures
that failed during evolution, such as finding creatures with one leg.
Why would you expect to see any of that, and what does any of this have to do with my post?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Why would you expect to see any of that, and what does any of this have to do with my post?

You asked for the undesigned ones, I replied that we didn't find a fossil
of human who evolved with wings and failed to stay for long, and if
such fossil found then it shows that the design wasn't included.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Did we ever find a fossil for human with wings? during evolution we should find
creatures that don't look well and failed to reproduce, where are these creatures
that failed during evolution, such as finding creatures with one leg.

Actually, a human with wings would pretty conclusively prove evolution is NOT true.

In no way does evolution predict what you seem to think it does.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
All the time i hear "there is no God, evolution is the cause of our existence "

My thought: i believe many religious people are thinking, if there is no God, how did it all start?

How can something suddenly go Bang ( big bang) but nothing triggerd the bang to happen?
So the question is.

No God, how did it go bang the first time from a big empty nothing?
Was there something there that triggerd it?

If there as been a series of big bangs over billions of years,what cased the first big bang?
1. You are begging the question.
2. There was no bang. It was not an explosion.
3. How do you nothing triggered it?
4. the answer is that we do not know. What's wrong with that?
 
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