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The JW's claim Jesus was not son of Adam.

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
"God cannot" doesn't make sense.
To me ' if God could lie ' that is what would Not make sense, thankfully Titus 1:2 assures us that ' God cannot lie ' - Hebrews 6:18
Thus, we can be assured that what God has promised to come will come.
Yes, Come Lord Jesus ! - Revelation 22:20; Revelation 22:2.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
To me ' if God could lie ' that is what would Not make sense, thankfully Titus 1:2 assures us that ' God cannot lie ' - Hebrews 6:18
Thus, we can be assured that what God has promised to come will come.
Yes, Come Lord Jesus ! - Revelation 22:20; Revelation 22:2.
Indeed!
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
To me ' if God could lie ' that is what would Not make sense, thankfully Titus 1:2 assures us that ' God cannot lie ' - Hebrews 6:18
Thus, we can be assured that what God has promised to come will come.
Yes, Come Lord Jesus ! - Revelation 22:20; Revelation 22:2.
Already addressed this same point in post #120.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Then Jesus says something really interesting because He says as in the days of Noah they were marrying and giving in marriage. When you compare that with Genesis 6 it's easy to see what is being alluded too. And of course we can't take away from the obvious meaning of Jesus' words either which is that people will be complacent. But, the deeper meaning is that they (the benai ha elohim) will be marrying and giving in marriage with the daughters of Adam. And so it is right now.

The obvious interpretation is in the words..."but they took no notice until the flood came and swept them all away"....they were too consumed with their everyday lives to be bothered listening to some crazy old man building a gigantic box in the middle of a cleared field. The Nephilim took any woman they chose....married or not. They were violent bullies, with no concern for anyone or anything but satisfying their carnal pleasures.
God could not allow them to live because the excessive violence in the earth was caused by them.
The demon fathers of the Nephilim would have kept on producing them.....but there is no mention of the Nephilim themselves reproducing.

I don't need to show it scripturally. You're trying to prove a negative and I think the burden of proof is on you.

They can appear physically in the right circumstances. This happens now thanks to witchcraft. Witchcraft is really invitation for these spirits to work or manifest in the human realm. So that's how they get in.

If you mean "manifestations"...i.e. causing inanimate objects to move or to take control of a human being and make them do weirde things...that is hardly them materializing. Shadowy figures caught on film are not material beings. They actually transformed themselves from spirit form to flesh and bone in Noah's day, and in that state were human enough to have sex with women and produce children.

They also corrupted the animals genetically.
We have no idea to what extent the animals were corrupted by the devil's rule over the earth, but we can see that they can do harm at present, but I'm sure that God did not mean them to do harm in the original Paradise.

The more we look for evidence the more we see that they did come after the flood .This is one reason God wanted Joshua and the Israelites to exterminate the Canaanites and not even marry with them. After Joshua some of them that survived fled from Canaan.

You don't seem to understand.....the flood destroyed them utterly, and sent their fathers back to the spirit realm where God dealt with them. They could not come back after the flood. Their fathers could no longer materialize so it was impossible.
Tall races of mankind still exist, but none of them are related to the Nephilim.

"Hybrids are invariably sterile." I would like to see the proof that is always true. There must be exceptions especially when it comes to beings like angels who can shapeshift at will. They must have literally materialized in a human form like the two angels that God sent to Sodom and Gomorrah.

That is what materializing means.....they could apparently shapshift at will, or else they would have had to seek God's permission to take on human form in Noah's day. We don't really know if the the original satan manifested himself in serpentine form to deceive the woman. The Bible is not specific enough to make that call. All we know for sure is what the Bible tells us...the angels that appeared to Abraham were for all intents and purposes, humans, who communicated, ate and drank and conducted themselves as any human being would have.

The human being that would be anointed with the Spirit of God to deliver us all. So the Spirit descended upon Him like a dove to anoint Him. But that doesn't mean He's not God manifest in human form. But He came to fulfill all things that were written about Him in the scriptures. So yes He had to be anointed and even baptized. As He said "This becomes us to fulfill all righteousness" Not that Jesus had sin to be cleansed of.

But you have to remember with Jesus He was both flesh and Spirit. So His human nature was fulfilling all these things for us. The things we could not accomplish ourselves.

There is nothing in the scriptures to support that view. It simply says that God somehow transferred the life of his firstborn son to the womb of a human woman and produced his sinless human Messiah. Where on earth does it say he had to be God to be the Messiah? Where did Jesus ever claim to be God incarnate? Please give us just one statement from either God or his Christ that they shared equality in any way....? Jesus only ever claimed to be "the son of God"...never did he claim to BE God.

The Logos was the promised incarnation of God in the flesh. This was with God since the beginning. God said "let there be light" and that's the light of God manifest in the darkness of the world.

The "light" spoken about in Genesis was literal light reaching the earth's surface as God was preparing the planet to receive life....light is essential for all the life that he would place here. The earth in its primitive form was 'swaddled' in a thick cloud layer that was eventually removed so that light from the sun and the moon could be seen from earth's surface.

At Job 38:7-9...we see the angels rejoicing over creation and God speaking of the earth's initial darkness and what caused it.
"When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

8 And who barricaded the sea behind doors
When it burst out from the womb,
9 When I clothed it with clouds
And wrapped it in thick gloom".


As God said let there be light and there was light and the evening and morning were the first day. It's all interconnected and if you can't connect the dots you won't get it.

I can connect the dots just fine....but when you produce dots out of nowhere, nothing connects. Making Jesus into God is a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)

That was after Jesus breathed on them and said "receive you the holy Spirit" Jesus' breath finally came on the day of Pentecost as a "rushing mighty wind". That's the duality of Christ. He was man and also God. So of course when He breathes as a man it may not have seemed like much; but when His breath at last comes it was powerful.

It does not prove that Jesus is God at all...it proves that the holy spirit is necessary for the accomplishment of God's will in all things. The apostles were able to perform miracles prior to Pentecost with the mention of Jesus' name.....the gifts of the spirit demonstrated after Pentecost did not make the disciples assembled on that day into gods, did it? They were still very much humans, but capable of doing extraordinary things.

The gift of holy spirit was given to Jesus at his baptism, not his birth. Prior to his taking up his role as Messiah, he was just plain old Jesus, the son of Joseph, the carpenter. His siblings did not believe in him until after his death and resurrection because they grew up with him as their older brother.

So, of course Jesus' human body was mortal. God needed this mortal body because He is immortal.

Read what you just said again....was Jesus just a body? Or was he the complete son of God in human form?

All spirit creatures are 'mortal' though not carnal....that means that they can die. To be "immortal" means you cannot die. (it literally means "deathless") For Jesus to have been the immortal God in human flesh, means that he could not die and be contained in the tomb for 3 days and nights as it was foretold. He was not resurrected until the third day. So where was Jesus for those three days? He did not exist. His Father raised him from the dead only after the three days were up, just as he said....just as Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish for three days, so the son of man would be confined to his tomb for three days.

It is painful to contemplate how misled people have been for centuries of being fed the devil's lies. :(
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Of course God can't do some things like evil. So yes I was obviously exaggerating. But, my point is that you're over limiting God.

According to Hebrews 10:5 a body was prepared for Jesus. In context this body was to be the sacrifice for sins. (see Hebrews 10:4-10)
No wonder John the baptist called Him "the Lamb of God" that takes away the sins of the world.

So, of course Jesus' human body was mortal. God needed this mortal body because He is immortal.
Oh my goodness!

No one has ever seen God.” — John 1:18
But people did see Jesus; He was the one that “God...sent” (John 3:16); He was God’s “holy Servant”(Acts of the Apostles 4 27,30), God’s “apostle” ie., ‘sent-forth one.’

If the Apostle John had said, “No one has ever seen the Father”, or “No one has ever seen the Holy Spirit”, then there may be some leeway to argue the phrase. But John didn’t.
The statement “No one has ever seen God” — while people saw, spoke with, and touched Jesus — completely excludes Jesus from being God.

I know, I know....I’m arguing against a brick wall.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Of course God can't do some things like evil. So yes I was obviously exaggerating. But, my point is that you're over limiting God.

According to Hebrews 10:5 a body was prepared for Jesus. In context this body was to be the sacrifice for sins. (see Hebrews 10:4-10)
No wonder John the baptist called Him "the Lamb of God" that takes away the sins of the world.

So, of course Jesus' human body was mortal. God needed this mortal body because He is immortal.

But in reply to @YoursTrue ’s comment of “God cannot die”, you clearly said...
"God cannot" doesn't make sense.

That’s a blanket statement.

Then you say, and rightly so, “No wonder John the baptist called Him "the Lamb of God" that takes away the sins of the world.”
(Notice, it’s not “God the Lamb.” Just wanted to point that out.)
This has no bearing on Jesus being God. Just the opposite....
Saying “of God”, makes it a possessive statement, as in “a prophet of God.” Or “an angel of God.”

Ok. Fin, Au revoir.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Oh my goodness!

No one has ever seen God.” — John 1:18
But people did see Jesus; He was the one that “God...sent” (John 3:16); He was God’s “holy Servant”(Acts of the Apostles 4 27,30), God’s “apostle” ie., ‘sent-forth one.’

If the Apostle John had said, “No one has ever seen the Father”, or “No one has ever seen the Holy Spirit”, then there may be some leeway to argue the phrase. But John didn’t.
The statement “No one has ever seen God” — while people saw, spoke with, and touched Jesus — completely excludes Jesus from being God.

I know, I know....I’m arguing against a brick wall.
Yes they saw Jesus but you know what it says if you read on in John 1:18? Yes, it's true that no one has seen God but the Son has declared Him! You want to know how Jesus declares the invisible God?

By just being Himself.

John 14:8-10
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


So, this is how you can look directly at the man Jesus Christ and not see the Father. The same way they looked at Jesus and didn't see the Father's shape or His voice! Yet we know Jesus is the shape of the Father. In fact the exact imprint of the Father (Hebrews 1:3) and He speaks the Words of God. So then He is both the voice and shape of the Father. Yet they don't see it. So I think we should beware the trap of endlessly searching the scriptures and not seeing the One of whom they speak.

John 5:37-40
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It is Jesus who when He comes will TRULY show the invisible God whom no one has seen or can see and dwells in unapproachable light. (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

So then you can say all you want that no one has seen God but you seem to forget how God does appear in manifestations to various people. Such as the time that Abraham ate supper with God and Daniel saw the "Ancient of days" on the throne and John (book of revelation John) saw God on the throne, Isaiah saw God in the temple and "his train filled the temple" and Ezekiel saw God sitting above the wheels that had eyes. So then God does appear to people but that doesn't mean you see His full glory. What you see is a manifestation or revelation of the invisible God. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.The greatest revelation or revealing of God we fallen humans had ever had given to us. John calls Him the "Word of Life" that they were able to touch with their hands. You can sense the awe with which John speaks of this. (1st John 1:1-2)

The Shekinah is not the glory of God it's the angel/cloud that hides the true glory of God. If people see the Shekinah then that's what is keeping them from being destroyed by the unveiled glory of God. This is why the cloud filled the temple of Solomon.

So anyway, my point is that of course you can't see God but even you agree you can see the manifestation of God. Otherwise you deny the clear words of the scriptures.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Then you say, and rightly so, “No wonder John the baptist called Him "the Lamb of God" that takes away the sins of the world.”
(Notice, it’s not “God the Lamb.” Just wanted to point that out.)
This has no bearing on Jesus being God. Just the opposite....
Saying “of God”, makes it a possessive statement, as in “a prophet of God.” Or “an angel of God.”

Ok. Fin, Au revoir.
In that case explain how Jesus is both the Lamb and the priest who offers the Lamb? (Hebrews 7:26-27) But not only that; He's also the temple! (John 2:19) Explain that. So imagine the whole scene when the high priest brings the lamb to the temple to be sacrificed. How can Jesus be all of these at once?

Not to be surprised then that since He's the Lamb, the priest and the temple; then He's also the God of the temple. No wonder He's greater than the temple. (Matthew 12:6)

So then being "of God" doesn't mean it can't be God. Jesus is "of God" in the flesh and "is" God in the Spirit.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
In that case explain how Jesus is both the Lamb and the priest who offers the Lamb? (Hebrews 7:26-27) But not only that; He's also the temple! (John 2:19) Explain that. So imagine the whole scene when the high priest brings the lamb to the temple to be sacrificed. How can Jesus be all of these at once?

Not to be surprised then that since He's the Lamb, the priest and the temple; then He's also the God of the temple. No wonder He's greater than the temple. (Matthew 12:6)

So then being "of God" doesn't mean it can't be God. Jesus is "of God" in the flesh and "is" God in the Spirit.
Jesus could not be a priest until he passed within the veil of the Temple. That is, until he offered himself as a sacrifice, and then was raised from the dead by God. He is now a priest of the order of Melchizedek.

Jesus is not the Temple. He was referring to his body figuratively as the temple.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Jesus could not be a priest until he passed within the veil of the Temple. That is, until he offered himself as a sacrifice, and then was raised from the dead by God. He is now a priest of the order of Melchizedek.

Jesus is not the Temple. He was referring to his body figuratively as the temple.
Jesus is not His body? Okay. Interesting perspective. I would disagree of course. I would refer to my body as myself. So I believe the same with Christ.

But you know that the veil itself is also symbolic of Jesus' body. So that's another one I could add to my list. He's the lamb, the priest, the veil and the temple.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Jesus is not His body? Okay. Interesting perspective. I would disagree of course. I would refer to my body as myself. So I believe the same with Christ.

But you know that the veil itself is also symbolic of Jesus' body. So that's another one I could add to my list. He's the lamb, the priest, the veil and the temple.
You said: "He's also the temple! (John 2:19)"

If you had said "His body was a temple", then I'd agree.

If you had said "His body (which is the church of God) is the temple of God". Then I'd agree with that also.

I don't know in what sense Jesus himself is "the" temple.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
You said: "He's also the temple! (John 2:19)"

If you had said "His body was a temple", then I'd agree.

If you had said "His body (which is the church of God) is the temple of God". Then I'd agree with that also.

I don't know in what sense Jesus himself is "the" temple.
Do you refer to your body as yourself? I know I do.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Oh my goodness! “No one has ever seen God.” — John 1:18
But people did see Jesus; He was the one that “God...sent” (John 3:16); He was God’s “holy Servant”(Acts of the Apostles 4: 27,30), God’s “apostle” ie., ‘sent-forth one.’
If the Apostle John had said, “No one has ever seen the Father”, or “No one has ever seen the Holy Spirit”, then there may be some leeway to argue the phrase. But John didn’t.
The statement “No one has ever seen God” — while people saw, spoke with, and touched Jesus — completely excludes Jesus from being God.
I know, I know....I’m arguing against a brick wall.

I know, I know.... too. Seems as if 1 Corinthians 15:21 is also ignored that since by MAN came death ( that man would be the man Adam ), by MAN (that man would be the man Jesus ) came also the resurrection.....
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
You said: "He's also the temple! (John 2:19)"
I don't know in what sense Jesus himself is "the" temple.
I find at Revelation 21:22 that John says he saw ' No temple ', because God is its temple and so is the Lamb ( Jesus )
Since those of the New heavenly Jerusalem have direct face access to God and Jesus they have No need for any temple to approach God.
- Revelation 22:3-4; 1 John 3:2 9 -they see them in their spirit form.
Thus, one could say the reason is that the Lamb shares with his God in being the temple.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I find at Revelation 21:22 that John says he saw ' No temple ', because God is its temple and so is the Lamb ( Jesus )
Since those of the New heavenly Jerusalem have direct face access to God and Jesus they have No need for any temple to approach God.
- Revelation 22:3-4; 1 John 3:2 9 -they see them in their spirit form.
Thus, one could say the reason is that the Lamb shares with his God in being the temple.
The City spoken in Rev 21 is called "New Jerusalem" and She is the Bride, the Lamb's wife. Rev 21:9-10

This "great city" is therefore the people themselves who "descend out of heaven from God".
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
That makes no sense, but okay if it makes you happy to believe that.

I believe I base it upon the fact that genetically I am only 1% Adamic and 99% Caucasian although I am sure I have some Atlantean as well. The Norse Myths say that they came from the stars and the Atlanteans the same. The DNA suggests that the Adamic race is related to Sino-Indian races which is one of the longest existing races as well as Africans on the earth.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Well Adam is human anything else is of the wicked one. Not God. Some people do have nephilim descent but they can still be saved because God died for all humans even if their DNA is corrupted by satan.

I believe there is no such thing as satanic blood or DNA. Maybe one could consider the lizard people satanic but I am not sure the DNA would be different because Hel may well have shapeshifted into something human before having sex with Odin and producing a child.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I believe there is no such thing as satanic blood or DNA. Maybe one could consider the lizard people satanic but I am not sure the DNA would be different because Hel may well have shapeshifted into something human before having sex with Odin and producing a child.
I think you're not looking at things properly. Consider that Adam was not going to die unless...
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I believe there is no such thing as satanic blood or DNA. Maybe one could consider the lizard people satanic but I am not sure the DNA would be different because Hel may well have shapeshifted into something human before having sex with Odin and producing a child.
Satan did not impregnate Eve. Neither she not Adam had to die unless...
 
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