The Gap Theory

DKH said:

The key word in your comment is "speculation." It was also speculated that the earth was younger or about 4.6 billion years old. This modern day readjustment is a clear indication that many in the scientific community just don't know how old the earth is, but refuse to admit this

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I see you are one of those people who try to denigrate science by pointing out that advances in knowledge are an indication of the uselessness of science.

Years ago most thought the earth was the center of the universe. Then science thought the sun was the center of the universe. Now we have learned neither is true. But if one believes the Bible, one must still believe the earth is the center of the universe.

DKH said:

However, there are bible verses that suggest the earth was created, became without form and void and was repopulated with form and life.

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Wonderful. There are Bible verses that say the wood in a fence can affect the spots on goats. There are Bible verses that show God commanding victorious soldiers to take the young virgin daughters of their fallen foe for themselves. So, the Bible fails on knowledge and morality.

DKH said:

No, it is proper research…

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So you say, but have not demonstrated.

DKH said:

I know, because I support and believe-in Jeremiah 31:31-33…

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If I understand this correctly...

• God made a covenant with the old guys in Israel to help get them out of Egypt.
• The old guys didn't stand by the deal.
• So, now (at the time of this verse's writing) God makes another deal with some guys from Israel and from Judah.
• Or is it just the guys from Israel?

It's confusing. See Red highlights.

In any case, God implants the details into their hearts and souls. That will make them my new chosen people.


All in all, it once again shows God as being vain and fickle.



ETA: Weren't you the guy who said readjustments were a problem?

DKH said:

Patience, please…The Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:2 is {H1961)—hayah (haw'-yaw) which is defined as to exist i.e. be or become and come to pass. This same word is used in Genesis 47:26 (became), Exodus 9:24 (became) and 1Kings 2:15 (become). Since, this Hebrew word has been translated to express the English words: became or become, we need to consider if using the English word "was" is correct. So, context is very important…Thus, I have supplied additional support for my position:

Jeremiah 4:23-26, Deuteronomy 32:4 (He is the Rock, His work is perfect), Ecclesiastes 3:11, Psalms 111:2-3, Jeremiah 10:12.

And, Isaiah 45:18: For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it; He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

Thus, there is no way that God would create something that is "without form" {H8414—tohuw (to'-hoo) or worthless thing and in vain} or "void" {H922—bohum (bo'-hoo) an undistinguishable ruin}



I know, because I support and believe-in Jeremiah 31:31-33…

Note: KJV through-out

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Before I respond to this, please tell answer the following: Which bible translation do you consider most accurate, and which translation do you typically use?

Jayhawker Soule said:

Before I respond to this, please tell answer the following: Which bible translation do you consider most accurate, and which translation do you typically use?

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When it comes to bible translations, I use the one that seems to have the most prevalence and references to the topic being discussed. This includes the Jewish bible. But, let me make it clear: I do not worship a book, I worship God…So, it's my connection to God and His Son that helps me surmise a reasonable solution to the issues that may occur, not a book. Hence, I take to heart the record in Jeremiah 8:8-10 in the Jewish bible.

DKH said:

Between verses Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there appears to be a "gap of time" that is not initially explained…Which, could be millions or even billions of years in length!

So, does the bible or any other religious book give us "hints" of what could have been going on during this time period? As well as, do these "hints" point to why humankind was created?

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I can't answer concerning the other religious books, but in the Bible "day" is a flexible term that can describe different lengths of time. It can be anything from the 24 hours we're familiar with, to an undefined amount of time. Based on that, the creative periods described in Genesis could have lasted God knows how long (pun intended!).
Genesis 1:1 simply says that "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". My understanding is that the heavens were created first an then the earth, but there are no clues to how long it took or how exactly it was done.
The verses that follow don't give many details about the amount of time that passed between each creative "day", so yes, it could have been millions of years and no one really knows in scientific detail, what happened in each of those periods of time. Please keep in mind that the Bible is not a science book. The goal of the Bible is not to teach people about science. There are some scientific facts here and there, and they are accurate, but they are few and not at all the central theme of the Bible.

DKH said:

When it comes to bible translations, I use the one that seems to have the most prevalence and references to the topic being discussed. This includes the Jewish bible. But, let me make it clear: I do not worship a book, I worship God…So, it's my connection to God and His Son that helps me surmise a reasonable solution to the issues that may occur, not a book. Hence, I take to heart the record in Jeremiah 8:8-10 in the Jewish bible.

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I prefer the RSV, which is the one most used by theologians the last time I read because of its more direct translations, and it can be found on-line here and used as a search engine: Bible: Revised Standard Version

DKH said:

When it comes to bible translations, I use the one that seems to have the most prevalence and references to the topic being discussed. This includes the Jewish bible. But, let me make it clear: I do not worship a book, I worship God…So, it's my connection to God and His Son that helps me surmise a reasonable solution to the issues that may occur, not a book. Hence, I take to heart the record in Jeremiah 8:8-10 in the Jewish bible.

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You seem committed to avoiding the question, so let's try a somewhat different approach ...

Can you show us either:

1. a peer reviewed Bible translation using "the earth became' rather than something akin to "the earth was," or
2. any evidence suggesting that you are a Biblical Hebrew scholar?

Feel free to start here.

metis said:

I prefer the RSV, ...

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I suspect that @DKH simply doesn't know what he doesn't know.

ecco said:

ETA: Weren't you the guy who said readjustments were a problem?

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No, I'm not! This was my comment: This modern day readjustment is a clear indication that many in the scientific community just don't know how old the earth is, but refuse to admit this. The problem is that many in scientific community refuse to admit that they just don't know, how old the earth is. Because, the bible doesn't tell us…So, the readjustments wasn't the issue.

Also, there is no readjustments in the red highlights…The first one include separately the house of Israel and the house of Judah, which was their status when Jeremiah wrote this prophesy. The house of Israel became lost…The second is when they are united. So, the reality that some would be receiving this blessing before the uniting of the 12 tribes of Israel is quite clear.

@DKH, please answer the questions posed in post #28.

DKH said:

Between verses Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there appears to be a "gap of time" that is not initially explained…Which, could be millions or even billions of years in length!

So, does the bible or any other religious book give us "hints" of what could have been going on during this time period? As well as, do these "hints" point to why humankind was created?

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Ancient Soul said:

NO and NO!

ALL religions are made up by spiritually clueless MAN.

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DKH said:

I may agree with your comment, up to a certain point. But, for one who believes in an Intelligent Creator, I disagree with your No and No statement.

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Ancient Soul said:

Ok,so I would like to see the quotes from other religious books that gives ""hints" of what could have been going on during this time period" and why humankind was created.

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DKH said:

The statement that you are referring to was not a statement of fact, related to other religious books. It was a question to those who support their religious books and asking if these books include such material or not.

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I re-posted the entire conversation for everyone to follow.

Now you disagreed with my statements.

So if you claim I'm wrong, it's only fair to ask for something to back up your claim.

metis said:

I prefer the RSV, which is the one most used by theologians the last time I read because of its more direct translations, and it can be found on-line here and used as a search engine: Bible: Revised Standard Version

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Does this mean that you trust the translation completely to be without errors, mistranslations or added words used to support a belief? I ask this because in the RSV the word "was" is used 20 times in Genesis 1. Yet the Hebrew word eithe (H1961) is used only twice...Once for Genesis 1:2 (was) and Genesis 1:3 for (be).

Note: Even though I have used bible verses for support, this posting is my personal opinion and should only be understood in that context.

DKH said:

Between verses Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there appears to be a "gap of time" that is not initially explained…Which, could be millions or even billions of years in length!

So, does the bible or any other religious book give us "hints" of what could have been going on during this time period? As well as, do these "hints" point to why humankind was created?

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So that's the time gap between creation of heavens and the earth and the spirit of god hovering? I doubt there anything concrete.

I just like the Rig Veda's take on this. It basically says "Only God knows". But I like the way its written and presented. I am not an expert on Hinduism, in the version I have this is in the Sookta 129 from the 10th mandala which is named the creation hymn. Interesting.

DKH said:

Between verses Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there appears to be a "gap of time" that is not initially explained…Which, could be millions or even billions of years in length!

So, does the bible or any other religious book give us "hints" of what could have been going on during this time period? As well as, do these "hints" point to why humankind was created?

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Yes Baha'u'llah has said humanity is very ancient and many civilisations have preceded our known history.

As to what was going on, the purpose then is the same a s God's Will now.

Regards Tony

ecco said:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
​

If I understand this correctly...

• God made a covenant with the old guys in Israel to help get them out of Egypt.
• The old guys didn't stand by the deal.
• So, now (at the time of this verse's writing) God makes another deal with some guys from Israel and from Judah.
• Or is it just the guys from Israel?

It's confusing. See Red highlights.

In any case, God implants the details into their hearts and souls. That will make them my new chosen people.

All in all, it once again shows God as being vain and fickle.

ETA: Weren't you the guy who said readjustments were a problem?

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I see the new Covernant has been given to Israel.

Regards Tony

Jayhawker Soule said:

You seem committed to avoiding the question

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Yes, I am…Because, you seem committed to avoiding the actual understanding of the Hebrew word eithe (H1961). Yet, to be clear I am not a Hebrew scholar, nor a Greek or English one. However, there are scholars that support my position or if you prefer I support their position, related to Genesis 1:2: Scofield reference bible, E.W. Bullinger's companion reference bible, Newberry reference bible, Dake's Annotated reference bible and Nelson study bible.

Also a review of Genesis 1:2 in the Hebrew Old Testament Interlinear is more support.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Yes Baha'u'llah has said humanity is very ancient and many civilisations have preceded our known history.

As to what was going on, the purpose then is the same a s God's Will now.

Regards Tony

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Thank you for your input.

firedragon said:

So that's the time gap between creation of heavens and the earth and the spirit of god hovering? I doubt there anything concrete.

I just like the Rig Veda's take on this. It basically says "Only God knows". But I like the way its written and presented. I am not an expert on Hinduism, in the version I have this is in the Sookta 129 from the 10th mandala which is named the creation hymn. Interesting.

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Thank you for your input.

DKH said:

Between verses Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there appears to be a "gap of time" that is not initially explained…Which, could be millions or even billions of years in length!

So, does the bible or any other religious book give us "hints" of what could have been going on during this time period? As well as, do these "hints" point to why humankind was created?

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Yes, the Bible is quite clear when you know what you are reading in context with the whole of scripture.

From the Tanakh....Genesis 1:1-2...

"In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth. אבְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ:

2 Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water. בוְהָאָ֗רֶץ הָֽיְתָ֥ה תֹ֨הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְח֖שֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַמָּֽיִם:"

This says to me that the earth was created at the same time as the rest of the universe. That would also mean in the same unprepared state as all the other planets in our solar system, which remain "void" and lifeless to this day.

There is no time reference between verse 1 and verse 2, so yes, it suggests a gap of time before the "formless" "empty" lifeless void that Earth once was, was prepared to receive the life that God planned to put here. That time gap could well have been millions or even billions of Earth years long. The whole planet was initially covered in water.

The first thing God commanded to appear on the surface, was "light"....the one essential ingredient for all all life above ground and even for marine creatures....and that includes the vegetation which appeared first. I believe it goes without saying that bacterial life was created before the vegetation or created in sync with it as those bacteria were needed to break down dead vegetation and turn it into soil. These microscopic organisms perform a vital function for the growth of all plants and trees.

If you are suggesting that there was life before the earth was prepared in verse 2, and you are concentrating on one word to suggest that......I'm sorry but how does that fit with what the rest of scripture teaches? The very reason why we are here....?

DKH said:

Between verses Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there appears to be a "gap of time" that is not initially explained…Which, could be millions or even billions of years in length!

So, does the bible or any other religious book give us "hints" of what could have been going on during this time period? As well as, do these "hints" point to why humankind was created?

Click to expand...

Everyone seems to assume that Genesis is talking about matter and the material universe that is the subject of science. Another interpretation is Genesis is talking about the formation of the human spirit; modern human consciousness.

Science has shown that the invention of writing coordinates with the biblical age of the universe. Both were about 6000 years ago. In the beginning was the word and word was God. God was the first word created by the invention.

Somehow the invention of writing had an profound impact on the natural human nature, and made human consciousness into something different; formative of the earth.

Modern psychology ca show that the human brain has two centers of consciousness. The inner self; heavens, is older and is connected to DNA and instinct. The second is the ego, which is relatively new and is our source of will and choice apart from the inner self. Will and choice is what causes the paradise of instinct and inner self to become contaminated, with poor willful choices; you shall surely die.

Before the invention of writing the natural man would forget as their brains forward integrated. With writing things now have a way to become socially refreshed. This blocked the natural forward integration and the past reinforced over and over. This unnatural situation dammed up the psychic energy of the mind until light appears; new center. Genesis is partially about an upgrade in the operating system of the human brain. The other half give observational data during the upgrade. Will and choice become perverted.