1. This is about the ones who believe while on earth.
Yet, doesn't Jesus' prayer he taught us say, "Thy will be done on earth as in heaven"? How is them being on earth mean it doesn't apply to heaven?
2. This is about the children of light only.
Yes. The point is, that if you are in heaven, if you are doing God's will, then darkness cannot exist. My argument stated, "Where there is Light, darkness cannot exist. The light of a single flame dispels darkness". Therefore, you will not, nor cannot have darkness and sin if you are in heaven. You won't have ocean polluters in heaven. They will be former ocean polluters, once they have been redeemed. Your argument was that if they are let in, they will do sin.
4. doesn't prove that noone is or will be in darkness.
To repeat my conclusion to that verse, and the others, I stated, "If they have been reconciled with God through accepting Grace, then they are no longer in darkness. They aren't "sinners" anymore. They do the will of God. No one in heaven, will be in darkness anymore."
That does prove it. It cannot exist in heaven. All those verses are saying the same thing. If you have the Light, you are not in darkness. This negates your objection that their will be "ocean polluters" in heaven, if "God let's them in", or however you put it.
So I stay with my opinion: Universal Reconciliation and the hypothesis that people suddenly stop sinning once they see God, ... is a guess.
You are changing the goal posts. Adding words and meaning to things that do not reflect what was said, or what UR generally teaches.
We were talking about those who eventually, at some point even beyond this lifetime, will find God and be fully reconciled with God. Those who are "in heaven" according to how you imagine that to be as some "place" somewhere. If you are now talking about those on earth who "find God", not instantly stopping sin, you won't get an argument from me that is what I believe. Of course not. There is an inertia, the momentum of habit that has to be overcome through dedication and devotion to Truth.
What I was referring to was not someone finding a ray of Light in some revival tent meeting somewhere, who them falls back to the "weak and wicked ways". I was referring to a direct, curtain pulled back exposure to the Divine Reality, seen unobstructed, liberated from the clouds of sin and darkness. As in you are now dead and standing naked before God sort of thing. That sort of experience can and does happen here on earth as well, of course. But rather than waiting to die to see God "face to face", you do it here while you're alive. "On earth, as in heaven", in other words.
Nothing imperfect can survive that. It's burned away like dross. Scripture teaches that as well. "
I will turn my hand against you and will burn away your dross completely; I will remove all your impurities," Isa, 1:25. So if scripture teaches God can and will do this, then why do you imagine this is God forcing them against their wills, or that in heaven sinners and sinning will persist? You fail to understand how it cannot, because of God's Presence. It burns away imperfections, such as ocean polluting, as you gave as example.
you said that God would exchange the hearts of evildoers. However, this would mean that God would correct himself, in my opinion. That was my point. He created mankind already.
Metaphorically speaking, of course he does, yes. I just quoted that verse from Isaiah, "
I will turn my hand against you and will burn away your dross completely; I will remove all your impurities." Are you going to say that God created imperfections, and needed to correct himself, as you accused me of saying? Surely, you are familiar with the story of the "Fall" of humankind from the Genesis story?
God doesn't create illusion and darkness. That's what happens when we lose sight of God. That what the story of Adam and Eve is intended to convey. It's an allegory of the human condition, and pretty well written one at that to endure for so long in our human culture as it has.
that's guesswork (the passage highlighted in red).
this is guesswork. That's your philosophy, I think. There is no link to scripture.
And now we come to you doing to me, what you later objected to when the other poster said what you were saying was your hypothesis. You objected to that, yet you did that to me multiple time previously. That's something to look at.
Now as far as it being "guesswork" on my part, that's not entirely true. It is a fairly well informed opinion of mine based upon a fair deal of study, as well as years of personal experience. You can try to dismiss what another person says by saying, "That's your opinion", suggesting that that makes it no better than other opinion, but that is an error. Some opinions are in fact better and more well-informed than others. Some people's "guesswork", is light years better guesses, than the totally ignorant.
And yes, there is link to scripture. I have been offering scripture to you, and your objections to those verses being applicable, is being addressed, such as in the post. I always like to support my "guesswork", from multiple perspectives. That's what makes it more informative and substantial, as opposed to
baseless speculations (which is what I think you are trying to infer using that term "guesswork").
... that this verse does not show that God will replace the hearts of evildoers who don't want to have their hearts changed while on earth.
Please kindly note that this verse does not mean that those who committed crimes on earth won't do so after this reconciliation this verse is talking about.
After everything will be reconciled... those folks might easily pick up their old ways again, I'm afraid.
The verse says, "
to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven". If they are "reconciled", they are not sinning. Add to this, it says he reconciles them "in heaven". So, as I said, "you were saying?". You said there is no verse that saying people are reconciled in heaven, and yet I just showed it to you.
However it's presumption to say that this means everyone will be in heaven.
It's presumption to say they won't be. I'd say based up what the nature of God is, and add to this what scripture says about "all things" being reconciled to God, as it clearly states, I think that's something for you do try to reconcile in how you are thinking about God, which affects how your read and interpret scripture. You see a God that casts people into hell out of vindictiveness and spite. I see a God whose Love "
reconciles to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven"
Appeals to plausibility cannot replace scripture.
What we read in scripture, reflects who we are. This is a fantastic comic someone did which to me perfectly captures this truth about God and scripture and ourselves:
I think I'll leave it at that.
