The 144,000 and the "Rapture" (Christians only)

Faithofchristian said:

Those that has abortion in destroying a life will answer to The Lord Jesus Christ on Judgement day..

Only the body of flesh and blood dies..
The Spirit is eternal that can not dies..
Only God has the power to destroy the spirit...
As The Lord Jesus Christ said in
Matthew 10:28--"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

Therefore only God holds the power to destroy the Spirit..
Therefore the spirit is eternal which can not die.....only God holds the power to destroy the spirit..

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nPeace said:

(Revelation 12:9-14) 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” 13 Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.

Thoughts and pictures come to my mind, . . . thoughts from before the year 1914 when there was real peace, quiet and security on this earth - a time when we didn’t know fear. . . . Security and quiet have disappeared from the lives of men since 1914.
Konrad Adenauer, Cleveland West Parker, January 20, 1966, p. 1

I should like to begin this essay with a fable. Once upon a time, there was a great war that involved the slaughter of millions upon millions of people. When, after years of fighting, one side finally prevailed over the other and the war ended, every-one said that it must go down in history as the last great war ever fought. To that end, the victorious nations sent all of their wisest men to a great peace conference, where they were given the task of drawing up a settlement that would be so carefully designed, so unquestionably fair to all concerned, that it would eliminate war as a phenomenon of human existence. Unfortunately, that settlement lasted only twenty years. There followed yet another great war involving the slaughter of millions upon millions of people. When, after years of fighting, one side finally prevailed over the other and the war ended, everyone said that it must go down in history as the last great war ever fought. To everyone's horror, though, the victors in that conflict immediately fell to quarreling among themselves, with the result that no peace conference ever took place. Within a few years each of the major victors had come to regard each other, and not a few years each of the major victors had come to regard each other, and not their former enemies, as the principal threat to their survival; each sought to ensure that survival by developing weapons capable, at least in theory, of ending the survival of everyone on earth. Paradoxically, that arrangement lasted twice as long as the first one, and as the fable ended showed no signs of coming apart anytime soon. It is, of course, just a fable, and as a general rule one ought not to take fables too seriously. There are times, though, when fables can illuminate reality more sharply than conventional forms of explanation are able to do, and this may well be one of them. For it is the case that the post-World War II system of international relations, which nobody designed or even thought could last for very long, which was based not upon the dictates of morality and justice but rather upon an arbitrary and strikingly artificial division of the world into spheres of influence, and which incorporated within it some of the most bitter and persistent antagonisms short of war in modern history, has now survived twice as long as the far more carefully designed World War I settlement, has approximately equaled in longevity the great 19th century international systems of Metternich and Bismarck, and unlike those earlier systems after four decades of existence shows no perceptible signs of disintegration. It is, or ought to be, enough to make one think. To be sure, the term "peace" is not the first one that comes to mind when one recalls the history of the past forty years. That period, after all, has seen the greatest accumulation of armaments the world has ever known, a whole series of protracted and devastating limited wars, an abundance of revolutionary, ethnic, religious, and civil violence, as well as some of the deepest and most intractable ideological rivalries in human experience. Nor have those more ancient scourges - famine, disease, poverty, injustice - by any means disappeared from the face of the earth. Is it not stretching things a bit, one might well ask, to take the moral and spiritual desert in which the nations of the world conduct their affairs, and call it "peace"? - "The Long Peace"

If that's not enough, there is a lot more I can get for you.
Then there is 2 Timothy 3:1-5, which confirms that what we see today, in the attitudes of people is proof that we are living during the last days of Satan's system.

I can get some more quotes, but I think we have there all the evidence we need.
What's your proof that Satan has not been cast down to the earth?

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Faithofchristian said:

Maybe if you had put things in Revelation in their proper order of events.
Then maybe you may have something..

But seeing you have not put things in Revelation in their proper order events.

Therefore Revelation 12:7-12.
Is still yet to happen and is still future from us..
Nice try though..

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nPeace said:

Earlier, you said God creates spirits in heaven. Not souls.
So I have to ask... Are you now saying God creates souls in heaven? Are you saying the spirit is the same as the soul?
Please provide the Biblical texts to show this.
Perhaps you can start with Genesis 2:7.

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nPeace said:

Help me out then. Please put them in proper order, and could you please explain how you arrive at that order.

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nPeace said:

Hebrews 12:18-24

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Faithofchristian said:

So how does that all line up to what The Lord Jesus Christ given in Mark 13:28.
About the Parable of the fig tree..

Because Revelation 12:7-12 is still future from us..
Therefore Satan and his angels have not been cast out of heaven totally Yet..

Maybe if you put the things in The Lord Jesus Christ book of Revelation in their proper order or events..
Then maybe you may learn that
Revelation 12:7-12 has not happened Yet.

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Faithofchristian said:

Look The Lord Jesus Christ given in his book of Revelation
7 seals 7 trumpets 7 vials..okay

Now study out each seal
Let's say the first seal now put everything that goes with the first seal in its proper order.
The same with the second seal
The third seal
The forth seal
The fifth seal
The six seal
The seventh seal.

Then line up everything that goes with each trumpet
Then line up everything that goes with each vial.
Then you'll have everything in their proper order of events that are to take place..

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nPeace said:

You lost me here. How does Mark 13:28 not line up with Revelation 12:7-12 being future from John writing it, and not frtom Faithofchristian living?

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LightofTruth said:

The new Jerusalem is what comes down from heaven to the earth when Christ is to rule in his kingdom along with all his resurrected and translated saints who were involved in executing God's judgments upon His people and the nations. The first resurrection spoken of in revelation is of those who died during those judgments. They also will reign with Christ. It is after those judgments that the kingdom will be established on earth.
Christ's rule with the immortal ones is an invisible rule. But there is also going to be a visible kingdom with a visible king in the line of David. The firstfruits of that mortal kingdom are the 144,000.
And since David's throne (of old) was called the throne of YAHWEH, so to will the mortal king's throne be called.
And since the immortal saints are to reign with Christ in the kingdom on earth, the earth is going to be subject to the laws of Christ as Lord of all the earth
Christ's throne will be in the Temple on Mount Zion

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Faithofchristian said:

Because the mark 13:28 is the parable of the fig tree that The Lord Jesus Christ given..
The parable of the fig tree came to it's fulfilment back in 1948 when Israel became a Nation and at this time started the tribulation....as time pass by things gradually gotten worse and worse and worse to where we're at to day...
But still things will even far worse than they are now..
The tribulation isn't something that happens over night..
It takes time for the tribulation to get worse than it is now..
It's a woman that's about to have a baby..the birth pains start little.but keeps getting worse and worse and worse until the baby is to be born..
The tribulation is in like manner..
It starts gradually that is unnoticeable until.it gets worse and worse and worse to where it becomes noticeable..

Therefore we have been in the tribulation since 1948 what the Lord Jesus Christ given the parable of the fig tree came to it's fulfilment in 1948. When Israel became a Nation and that started the tribulation.

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nPeace said:

Ah. I see. You have set your own date.
What Israel are you speaking of? The Israel of God, which Paul spoke of, of are you speaking of the fleshly nation of Israel Paul said God has cast off?
Tell me more, please, about this 1948, and how you came up with that date.

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Faithofchristian said:

Look The Lord Jesus Christ given in his book of Revelation
7 seals 7 trumpets 7 vials..okay

Now study out each seal
Let's say the first seal now put everything that goes with the first seal in its proper order.
The same with the second seal
The third seal
The forth seal
The fifth seal
The six seal
The seventh seal.

Then line up everything that goes with each trumpet
Then line up everything that goes with each vial.
Then you'll have everything in their proper order of events that are to take place..

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nPeace said:

The Bible says
(Hebrews 12:22-24) 22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

This is said to the saints, who will rule with the Christ.
(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

(2 Timothy 2:12) . . . if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings. . .

Is that not so?
Then, Revelation 14:1 applies to them. Is that not correct?

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nPeace said:

First Seal
The rider of the white horse is King Jesus - who began to rule
(Revelation 6:2) And I saw, and look! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest.

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nPeace said:

First Seal
The rider of the white horse is King Jesus - who began to rule
(Revelation 6:2) And I saw, and look! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest.

Second Seal
Following the start of King Jesus' rule...
1) peace is taken away from the earth.
(Revelation 6:4) Another came out, a fiery-colored horse, and it was granted to the one seated on it to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another, and he was given a great sword.

Third & Fourth Seal
2) increased poverty, and pestilences throughout the earth.
(Revelation 6:5, 6) And I saw, and look! a black horse, and the one seated on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 I heard what sounded like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.”
(Revelation 6:8) And I saw, and look! a pale horse, and the one seated on it had the name Death. And the Grave was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.

This is in harmony with Matthew 24:3-15

Fifth Seal
Following King Jesus' rule, those faithful saints who died are rewarded, and told to wait until the remaining ones alive on the earth, receive their reward (which does not occur until during the great tribulation - Matthew 24:21, 22)
(Revelation 6:9-11) . . .I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.

Sixth Seal
Since this seal is broken, between the time the saints that died receive their reward, and before the four winds of destruction, this occurs during the great tribulation. So this is the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21), when men will be in some serious pains... including those shaken from the fall of Babylon the Great - the world empire of false religion.
(Revelation 6:12-17) 12 . . . I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Seventh and Final Seal
The seventh seal is a seal all by itself, which includes a lot.
So I will get back to you on this, when I have the time.

So far, I don't see how the order of the seals affect the timing of Satan's ousting.
What problem do you see?

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Faithofchristian said:

Nice try though..

But just so you know..that Satan and his angels have not been cast out of heaven totally Yet..
Which is still future from us yet..
But Nice try though..

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Faithofchristian said:

Those that has abortion in destroying a life will answer to The Lord Jesus Christ on Judgement day..

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Only the body of flesh and blood dies..
The Spirit is eternal that can not dies..

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Faithofchristian said:

Only God has the power to destroy the spirit...
As The Lord Jesus Christ said in
Matthew 10:28--"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

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Faithofchristian said:

The Hebrew translation for
( soul ) and ( spirit) are one and the same..
They are interchangeable meaning the
Soul also means Spirit.
and Spirit also means Soul..

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Faithofchristian said:

Well if you study the parable of the fig tree as The Lord Jesus Christ given in the book of Mark 13:28..
Why do you think Jesus Christ said
( Now learn a Parable of the fig tree)

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Faithofchristian said:

Because the parable of the fig tree is about Israel when Israel became a Nation back in 1948..which at that time started the tribulation also..
Do you ever learn anything the Lord Jesus Christ gives in his word.
Evidently you do not listen to The Lord Jesus Christ in his word..
Because if you did then you know what the parable of the fig tree stands for and who the parable of the fig tree is about..

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Faithofchristian said:

Well it's evidence that you do not listen to The Lord Jesus Christ..
But you will listen to Pastors, Preachers..

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Faithofchristian said:

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke many Parables..
But one certain Parable concerns people of to day in our world..
What Parable is that?
That even to day people still don't understand...
As The Lord Jesus Christ said in
Matthew chapter 13.
11--"He answered and said unto them.. Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given"
12--"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath"
( For Whosoever has God given, to him shall God give more and he shall have more abundance, But Whosoever has nothing, from him shall God take away, even him that he has.,
Only to those that has understanding of the parables which The Lord Jesus Christ.
The Lord Jesus Christ has given to those to understand the parables eyes to see and ears to hear what the parables will say..
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand"
The Lord Jesus Christ given in Mark 13:28 the Parable of the fig tree..
Notice the Lord Jesus Christ said----( Now learn )
a parable of the fig tree.
What is the urgency to learn the parable of the fig tree?
What is significance of the parable of the fig tree?
And at what point in time did the Parable of the fig tree come to its fulfilment..
And from that moment the parable of the fig tree came to it's fulfilment started the tribulation..

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