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about the new testament
- Thread starter syo
- Start date
I've read the new testament. My opinion is that it's fake. Jesus is fake. He never existed. Why? Because the books don't make sense at all!
The books are about miracles that go against nature. Please!
How a God can tell He's God? He shows that He's not a human by doing something humans cannot do. We humans cannot conveniently do two thing, 1) to tell a future, and 2) to break our physics laws. God did that in front of His chosen eyewitnesses such that.... they are thus called the prophets anyway.
Truth don't need to make sense when they go out of the scope of the time and space we are living in. Quantum physics made no sense to even Einstein.
Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I agree. It is to clear this confusion that Jesus' Second Coming is about.
Regards
Careful, we do not have the original writings of Josephus, and they were likely corrupted and third hand references and not witnesses of the life of Jesus. No writings of the text of the gospels are known to exist before 50 AD, and the oldest known scrape of text date from the second century AD is the gospel of John, The gospels were compiled, edited and redacted much later. There are absolutely no known records for the existence of Jesus by philosophers, historians nor Roman records living orvisting Palestine during the life of Jesus.
The passage by Tacitus in ~64 AD only referred to the existence of believers in Jesus Christ.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The Jews were looking for the Messiah. And many are today also looking for the Messiah.
Dropship
Member
First the Christians need to tell them what exactly he did that they think qualifies him to be the mashiach, since he fulfilled none of the prophecies in the Tanakh pertaining to what mashiach is actually meant to do.Somebody should tell them he's been and gone 2000 years ago..
So it's a pretty good reason to reject him....
Dropship
Member
Wait a minute, Jesus's arrival was foretold many times in the Old T, so why don't the Jews believe their own prophets?
I'll just cut to the chase here.
Here are the messianic prophecies, you can tell me which Jesus fulfilled:
2 Shmuel 7:10-13 (Samuel)
And I will appoint a place for My people, for Israel, and I will plant them, and they will dwell in their own place, and be disturbed no more; and the wicked people shall not continue to afflict them as formerly.
And even from the day that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. And the Lord has told you that the Lord will make for you a house.
When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
This has not happened. Wicked people have been murdering Jewish people all throughout history. The Temple is not built. There is no King.
Yeshayahu 2-4 (Isaiah)
And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and all the nations shall stream to it.
And many peoples shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount, to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge between the nations and reprove many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.
People still go to war and the Temple has not been re-established.
Yeshayahu 11-12-13
And He shall raise a banner to the nations, and He shall gather the lost of Israel, and the scattered ones of Judah He shall gather from the four corners of the earth.
And the envy of Ephraim shall cease, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, nor shall Judah vex Ephraim.
The lost tribes have not been gathered back to Israel.
Yeshahyahu 27-12-13
And it shall come to pass on that day, that the Lord shall gather from the flood of the river to the stream of Egypt, and you shall be gathered one by one, O children of Israel.
And it shall come to pass on that day, that a great shofar shall be sounded, and those lost in the land of Assyria and those exiled in the land of Egypt shall come and they shall prostrate themselves before the Lord on the holy mount in Jerusalem.
Not happened yet.
Yirmiyahu 31:33 (Jeremiah)
And no longer shall one teach his neighbour or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.
Nothing about needing a middle-man and we don't live in an age where everyone knows G-d is G-d.
Yechezkel 37:26-28 (Ezekiel)
And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever.
And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people.
And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever.
Temple still not built and the Nations don't all recognise G-d as G-d.
Micah 4:1-3
And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and peoples shall stream upon it.
And many nations shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount and to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.
People still go to war. L-rd's House not established.
Tzefanaiah 3:9-13 (Zefanaiah)
For then I will convert the peoples to a pure language that all of them call in the name of the Lord, to worship Him of one accord.
From the other side of the rivers of Cush, My supplicants, the community of My scattered ones-they shall bring Me an offering.
On that day you shall not be ashamed of all your deeds [with] which you rebelled against Me, for then I will remove from your midst those who rejoice in your pride, and you shall no longer continue to be haughty on My holy mount.
And I will leave over in your midst a humble and poor people, and they shall take shelter in the name of the Lord.
The remnant of Israel shall neither commit injustice nor speak lies; neither shall deceitful speech be found in their mouth, for they shall graze and lie down, with no one to cause them to shudder.
This hasn't happened either. None of it.
Zach 14:9-11
And the Lord shall become King over all the earth; on that day shall the Lord be one, and His name one.
The whole earth shall be changed to be like a plain, from the hill of Rimmon in the south of Jerusalem; but it [Jerusalem] will be elevated high and remain in its old place; from the gate of Benjamin to the place of the first gate, until the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananel until the king's wine-cellars.
And they shall dwell therein, and there shall be no more destruction; but Jerusalem shall dwell in safety.
Jerusalem is hardly dwelling in safety and polytheism is still a thing.
Dropship
Member
Check this little lot..
The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem - fulfilled
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." (Micah 5:2)
The Messiah would enter Jerusalem on a donkey - fulfilled
"Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey" (Zech 9:9)
The Messiah would be silent before His accusers - fulfilled
"He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth" (Isaiah 53:7).
The Messiah would be flogged and spit on - fulfilled
"I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard, I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting" (Isaiah 50:6)
The Messiah would suffer nails and spearthrust - fulfilled
".. he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5)
The Messiah would be crucified with thieves - fulfilled
"..he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12)
The betrayal money would be thrown in the temple for a potters field - fulfilled
"Throw it to the potter- the handsome price at which they priced me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter" (Zech 11:13)
And of course when Jesus came he himself confirmed he was the Messiah -
"The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." (John 4:25/26)
The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem - fulfilled
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." (Micah 5:2)
The Messiah would enter Jerusalem on a donkey - fulfilled
"Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey" (Zech 9:9)
The Messiah would be silent before His accusers - fulfilled
"He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth" (Isaiah 53:7).
The Messiah would be flogged and spit on - fulfilled
"I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard, I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting" (Isaiah 50:6)
The Messiah would suffer nails and spearthrust - fulfilled
".. he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5)
The Messiah would be crucified with thieves - fulfilled
"..he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12)
The betrayal money would be thrown in the temple for a potters field - fulfilled
"Throw it to the potter- the handsome price at which they priced me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter" (Zech 11:13)
And of course when Jesus came he himself confirmed he was the Messiah -
"The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." (John 4:25/26)
This is about David being born there and the Mashiach being his descendant. See here Micah 5:1
Matthew has Jesus riding two donkeys. It's also very easy to make this up.
Isaiah 53 is a Servant Song about Israel.
This is about the prophet Yeshayahu himself.
This is part of the Servant Song about Israel.
Servant Song about Israel.
This isn't anything to do with Mashiach at all. See Rashi's commentary here, for example, https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16215/showrashi/true
The Christian Testament means nothing to me.
Now will you address the points in my above post?
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Dropship
Member
What's there to address? Jesus was not only a healer like your Heka, but he also said he was the Messiah and that's good enough for me..
So you can't address my points. I was hoping for some kind of debate. Your scripture says:What's there to address? Jesus was not only a healer like your Heka, but he also said he was the Messiah and that's good enough for me..
[...]but honour the messiah as lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.
Jesus is the messiah because he said so isn't a good defence. I've given you a list of prophecies about Mashiach he never fulfilled, so what is your answer?
Dropship
Member
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Are some still waiting for Rabbi Schneerson to arise from the grave?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You do know he was put to death, don't you? By that I mean killed.
Some Chabadniks are. So I guess like, 0.01% of Jews? I don't really know what their deal is. They're a very visible group but not by any means the biggest.
Yes, and so he couldn't be the Mashiach because before he died he didn't fulfil any of the messianic prophecies.
Except you still haven't addressed any of the verses I gave. I addressed yours.I've given you a list of fulfilled prophecies, so we're at a stalemate..