Question about someone who are or become a muslim

Spirit of Light · Sep 27, 2020

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Okay.

IMO, you're responsible for the belief system you promote. If they're not acting in line with the beliefs you promote and uphold, then their actions don't have anything to do with you.

... but you're still responsible for the implications of what you promote even if you disagree with those implications. For instance, if you go around telling people that the Qur'an is the word of God, people who take the parts of the Qur'an praising the killing of non-believers and apostates really seriously are still acting in accordance with what you promote, even if you're personally opposed to violence.

Agree, I am responsible for what i say, and how i present the teaching i follow and believe in. So my goal is to present islam the way i understand it and accordance with the teaching.

This is why you often will see me say " in my understanding " as long i do not have a direct qoute from the Quran to show.

icehorse · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
That was my answer , Yes

So, a clear, parsimonious reading of the Quran tells us that the Quran supports misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocracy, and totalitarianism (among other things).

So do you support these things?

Spirit of Light · Sep 27, 2020

icehorse said:
So, a clear, parsimonious reading of the Quran tells us that the Quran supports misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocracy, and totalitarianism (among other things).

So do you support these things?

I believe the word of Allah is the Quran, so as you know i believe in Allah.

Do i treat woman badly, no
Do i treat gay people bad, no but i used to have bad thoughts about them BEFORE i become a muslim, islam taught me that my own thinking was wrong, i was judging them, when i should judge my own behavior.
Do i dislike or hate Jewish people, no i dont
Do i support totalitarian regimes that are evil? No

Quintessence · Sep 27, 2020

1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?

It takes a hell of a lot for me to "look down on" someone. This doesn't even remotely qualify. You basically have to be a psychopath for me to look down on you, and often not even then.

2: Is a Muslim worth less than other people because of their faith in Allah and Muhammad?

Worth less for what purpose or function? In my view, everything has equal intrinsic worth. However, when it comes to worth for specific purposes or functions, some tools are better for certain jobs than others. So what's the job?

3: Should a Muslim of today stand responsible for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?

Responsible how? I tend to find notions of responsibility odd and confusing as it is typically understood in my surrounding culture, honestly. Probably because I'm a determinist and don't find the judgmental nature of this blame game useful or important.

4: Should Muslims stand corrected for what Muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Not sure precisely what you mean. Questions like this, though, remind me of why I find my surrounding culture's notion of responsibility very odd and confusing. Or straight up illogical.

Do you see that many Muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

Never is too strong a word, but I see humans that way just in general. It's not really specific to Muslims. That humans are not psychopaths kind of goes without saying.

ecco · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
but my question is this.

1: 2: 3: 4:
Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

Why are you asking? Will the answers of some posters in a forum change your views/beliefs?

Amanaki said:
Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

Yes.

I also see many Muslims who do want to harm others (including Muslims of differing sects).
I also see many Muslims who are OK with destroying the historical artifacts of people of other heritages.

Unless I'm wrong, these things are being done by people who firmly believe in the Koran and its teachings.

Spirit of Light · Sep 27, 2020

ecco said:
Why are you asking? Will the answers of some posters in a forum change your views/beliefs?

Yes.

I also see many Muslims who do want to harm others (including Muslims of differing sects).
I also see many Muslims who are OK with destroying the historical artifacts of people of other heritages.

Unless I'm wrong, these things are being done by people who firmly believe in the Koran and its teachings.

The OP is not going to change my belief, nor is the answers you guys give. But why i ask is because i realized the views some holds toward Islam and its teachings. You are of course free to have any view you like.
I just wanted to hear more in details so i could understand why some more or less hate Islam and others do not. ( Hate is a bit to strong word i know, i just did notvfind the right word to you, so no ill will from my side toward you guys)

icehorse · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
I believe the word of Allah is the Quran, so as you know i believe in Allah.

Do i treat woman badly, no
Do i treat gay people bad, no but i used to have bad thoughts about them BEFORE i become a muslim, islam taught me that my own thinking was wrong, i was judging them, when i should judge my own behavior.
Do i dislike or hate Jewish people, no i dont
Do i support totalitarian regimes that are evil? No

So then you're not following the word of the Quran? I'm confused?

Spirit of Light · Sep 27, 2020

icehorse said:
So then you're not following the word of the Quran? I'm confused?

Yes i do follow the word of the Qur'an

The difference is, you see it at a extreme negative way, whereas i see it and follow it on a much less hatefull way. I see love and care in the Islamic teaching, whereas you only focus on the most negative aspect.
aspect.
Example as you said about Gay people, yes in Islam it is seen as a sin, if you going to practice Islam. But that does not mean i have to be hatefull toward gay people

Many places in the Quran it say you should be kind, forgiving and so on.

shivsomashekhar · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
I have during the last days seen many comments about muslims or Islam ( some good comments some not so good) and i started to think.
Maybe i only notice it more clearly this days since i become a muslim my self, but my question is this.

1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?
3: Should a muslim of today stand responsable for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?
4: Should muslims stand corrected for what muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Do you see that many Muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

@Amanaki, the answer is No to #2, #3 and #4.

However, on #1, the answer is neither yes nor no. But I am very skeptical about new converts. You will need to pass the time test - that is, you have to stick to the religion for a few years before you can be taken seriously. Because converts gave up a previous religion and they may soon find something more interesting and may want to give up the current religion.

Speaking of giving up Islam, are you familiar with Islam apostasy? You can only enter Islam. Exiting is a big sin - a capital offense in some countries.

lewisnotmiller · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
I have during the last days seen many comments about muslims or Islam ( some good comments some not so good) and i started to think.
Maybe i only notice it more clearly this days since i become a muslim my self, but my question is this.

1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?
3: Should a muslim of today stand responsable for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?
4: Should muslims stand corrected for what muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

1. No
2. No
3. If they follow it without question, yes.
4. No, but it's more complex than that. There have been both good and bad things done in the past under the umbrella of Islam. It's worth understanding why each happened. That's no different to any other understanding of history. It helps inform our future decisions.

icehorse · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
Yes i do follow the word of the Qur'an
The difference is, you see it at a extreme negative way, whereas i see it and follow it on a much less hatefull way. I see love and care in the Islamic teaching, whereas you only focus on the most negative aspect.
aspect.
Example as you said about Gay people, yes in Islam it is seen as a sin, if you going to practice Islam. But that does not mean i have to be hatefull toward gay people

Many places in the Quran it say you should be kind, forgiving and so on.

Ok, so tell me how to be misogynistic and anti-semitic in a non-hateful way?

hollochris · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
I have during the last days seen many comments about muslims or Islam ( some good comments some not so good) and i started to think.
Maybe i only notice it more clearly this days since i become a muslim my self, but my question is this.

1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?
3: Should a muslim of today stand responsable for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?
4: Should muslims stand corrected for what muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

The fact is, Muslims now are being taught the same doctrines as 1000 years ago. Some Muslims will take it more seriously, and are still considered better Muslims, because they are more obedient, and some Muslims take it less seriously, at risk of being disobedient. Many people are more inclined to avoid conflict and confrontation, hence are perceived to be more peaceful, but the authority and teaching still comes from the same source, which has not changed.

stvdv · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?
3: Should a muslim of today stand responsable for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?
4: Should muslims stand corrected for what muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

1) No
2) No
3) Yes, if a Muslim follows blindly the Quran and values Quran higher than his own conscience
4. Yes, IF they whitewash these horrors or do not acknowledge it is wrong

I see many Muslims who all have a problem to admit that Koran verses are prone to violent interpretation
I see many Muslims who do not openly and loudly scream "non-Muslims are free to draw Muhammad; Muslims killing/threatening them are wrong"
I see many Muslims who conceal their real thoughts on errors done in name of Koran
I see many, many Muslims judging gay, apostate, the West, and who impose Muslim rules on the West

Proof the 2 fresh stories below:
Pakistan PM condemns 'Islamophobic' Charlie Hebdo cartoons - France 24
Hindu Temple demolished by cops on the objection of Muslims in TN

firedragon · Sep 27, 2020

Aupmanyav said:
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?: It is the other way around in Islam. Testimony of a Muslim is equal to two from the 'people of the book' and four times an unbeliever. Similarly the testimony of Women in each category is half that of a man in the same category.

Untrue. In fact, they are lies. Shallow-Internet scholarship has its aftermath.

firedragon · Sep 27, 2020

icehorse said:
So, a clear, parsimonious reading of the Quran tells us that the Quran supports misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocracy, and totalitarianism (among other things).

So do you support these things?

Lies. Now please go to your google search, find a website where you can cut and paste lists, and do some shallow surfing, and pretend that its "clear reading".

MonkeyFire · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
I have during the last days seen many comments about muslims or Islam ( some good comments some not so good) and i started to think.
Maybe i only notice it more clearly this days since i become a muslim my self, but my question is this.

1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?
3: Should a muslim of today stand responsable for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?
4: Should muslims stand corrected for what muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

1. I don't look down on others. I pity suffering. I feel for those who feel, but those who suffer are in hell, but I dare not slander. The lord doth rebuke suffering.
2. No
3. Yes
4. as long as they repent and have the wisdom of God I can forgive them. So either way on this one.

firedragon · Sep 27, 2020

Amanaki said:
I have during the last days seen many comments about muslims or Islam ( some good comments some not so good) and i started to think.
Maybe i only notice it more clearly this days since i become a muslim my self, but my question is this.

1: Do you look down on someone who converted to Islam because of your view of Islam?
2: Is a muslim less worth then other people because of the faith in Allah and Muhammad?
3: Should a muslim of today stand responsable for what the Qur'an say even it was written a long time ago?
4: Should muslims stand corrected for what muslims 500-1000 years ago did in sin?

Do you see that many muslims are very peaceful people who never want to harm others?

Brother. With all due respect, your question number 3 should be answered with a "yes" typically. Its only fair that anyone does say "yes" unless you denounce the Quran.

Nevertheless, there is a very big chance that this thread will turn into a hate spewing thread of pseudo scholars. Watch.

Spirit of Light · Sep 28, 2020

shivsomashekhar said:
@Amanaki, the answer is No to #2, #3 and #4.

However, on #1, the answer is neither yes nor no. But I am very skeptical about new converts. You will need to pass the time test - that is, you have to stick to the religion for a few years before you can be taken seriously. Because converts gave up a previous religion and they may soon find something more interesting and may want to give up the current religion.

Speaking of giving up Islam, are you familiar with Islam apostasy? You can only enter Islam. Exiting is a big sin - a capital offense in some countries.

I have no reason to leave Islam, i found what i been looking for

Spirit of Light · Sep 28, 2020

icehorse said:
Ok, so tell me how to be misogynistic and anti-semitic in a non-hateful way?

As i said i am not harmful to 9thers, i do not follow harmful teaching. The way i see Islam is a peaceful practice.

Why do you keep picking a tiny verse and think it represent Islam?

Spirit of Light · Sep 28, 2020

firedragon said:
Brother. With all due respect, your question number 3 should be answered with a "yes" typically. Its only fair that anyone does say "yes" unless you denounce the Quran.

Nevertheless, there is a very big chance that this thread will turn into a hate spewing thread of pseudo scholars. Watch.

Let them reveal them self as haters, then my goal with this tread had been successful

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