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The Theology of Semen.

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
In an earlier thread I noted that ha-adam and Eve are originally, identical twins; Eve is a clone of ha-adam. The novelty of the penis/phallus is that it's the first incarnation of the beguiling serpent who has his way with human history after the rise of the phallus and the fall of the identical nature of nature’s original human twins (ha-adam and Eve). The factuality of this statement, where the Hebrew text of the scripture is concerned, leads to a theological pearl of immeasurable value when we realize it demands that, having come so far as to understand that ha-adam and Eve are female clones, we think about the perceived nature of the original firstborn of creation as he would exist in profound contradistinction to the usurper Cain who’s conceived not by the breath, or blood, of God (the masculine source of ha-adam and Eve's genesis), but by the novel flesh (and the newfangled seed that testifies to its violent, degenerate, genesis), which (the novel flesh), proposes to pose as a new truth created wholesale in Genesis 2:21.

In Genesis 2:21, two novel entities enter into the Garden of Eden, the phallus, manufactured by closing up the petals on ha-adam's tulip (the Hebrew says the two lips of ha-adam's femininity are sutured סגר together to form the first phallus, Midrash Rabbah, Bere****h, XVII, 6), and secondarily, but of equal importance, the testimony come through the novel new flesh: the semen.

This theological semen, i.e., the first instance of semen in the Torah, is so little remarked on in Jewish or Christian theology as to almost defy belief. It's hidden throughout the Tanakh, but in plain sight, so that it almost appears Jews and Christians together, to a man, have made a pact not to notice or think about the most fertile source for unlocking innumerable and fundamental secrets lurking beneath the petals and pages of the Torah text. It's almost as though Jews and Christians share one fundamental theological premonition: fear of the theological semen that might show them to be more symbiotically related than either theology can bear, precisely because it proves that though they may indeed be brothers from another mother, they in truth, and fact, share the same father, and thus the same seminally flawed testemony.



John
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
In an earlier thread I noted that ha-adam and Eve are originally, identical twins; Eve is a clone of ha-adam.

That is an assumption....no one knows how God used the rib of Adam to create his wife. To state that they were clones is to create a premise....an unfounded one, IMO.

The novelty of the penis/phallus is that it's the first incarnation of the beguiling serpent who has his way with human history after the rise of the phallus and the fall of the identical nature of nature’s original human twins (ha-adam and Eve).

Again you are assuming things that are not written in scripture.
Just because Adam and his wife were genetically related, does not make them identical twins. They might be likened to fraternal twins at best, but being told to “be fruitful and fill the earth” with their kind is hardly suggestive of them both being female. Jesus restated what God had originally said....”male and female he created them”. (Genesis 1:27; Matthew 19:4) So you have a union of male and female from the beginning who were to use their natural God-given powers of reproduction to fill the planet with their “kind”.

In Genesis 2:21, two novel entities enter into the Garden of Eden, the phallus, manufactured by closing up the petals on ha-adam's tulip (the Hebrew says the two lips of ha-adam's femininity are sutured סגר together to form the first phallus, Midrash Rabbah, Bere****h, XVII, 6), and secondarily, but of equal importance, the testimony come through the novel new flesh: the semen.

The “novel new flesh” was designed and created to produce new life. The suggestion stated here is way beyond anything mentioned in scripture....more a product of warped human imagination, I believe.

This theological semen, i.e., the first instance of semen in the Torah, is so little remarked on in Jewish or Christian theology as to almost defy belief. It's hidden throughout the Tanakh, but in plain sight, so that it almost appears Jews and Christians together, to a man, have made a pact not to notice or think about the most fertile source for unlocking innumerable and fundamental secrets lurking beneath the petals and pages of the Torah text. It's almost as though Jews and Christians share one fundamental theological premonition: fear of the theological semen that might show them to be more symbiotically related than either theology can bear, precisely because it proves that though they may indeed be brothers from another mother, they in truth, and fact, share the same father, and thus the same seminally flawed testemony.

Absolute nonsense. We are all genetically related in order to be identified as humans in the first place. If God created “male and female” of every “kind” that he placed here on planet Earth, then logically, humans would also reproduce according to their “kind” in the same manner, using the same basic ‘method’....the release of an egg and the fertilisation of it with male sperm. That is the ‘recipe’ for life in the majority of living beings here, whether internal or external to the female’s body, that egg will produce life....replicas of their parents, fully programmed to be what they were created to be.

The factuality of this statement, where the Hebrew text of the scripture is concerned, leads to a theological pearl of immeasurable value when we realize it demands that, having come so far as to understand that ha-adam and Eve are female clones, we think about the perceived nature of the original firstborn of creation as he would exist in profound contradistinction to the usurper Cain who’s conceived not by the breath, or blood, of God (the masculine source of ha-adam and Eve's genesis), but by the novel flesh (and the newfangled seed that testifies to its violent, degenerate, genesis), which (the novel flesh), proposes to pose as a new truth created wholesale in Genesis 2:21.

It appears as if you are running away with an idea that finds no support in God’s word.
It was after Adam and Eve’s defection that they conceived their firstborn, evicted from their paradise home, in less than optimal circumstances, as their children were now subject to the sinful nature of their disobedient parents. Sin invaded their very nature and this in turn created the violence and often demonstrated departure from the perfection with which God created the original humans. A cold blooded murderer was produced in just one generation......such is the power of sin. This is why God warned them not to touch that one tree in the garden that was God’s rightful property. A “knowledge of good and evil” would only bring disaster.....as we can see in every part of human history since then.

Your interpretation of Genesis 2:21 is flawed IMO. I cannot see any truth in what you have suggested here.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
In an earlier thread I noted that ha-adam and Eve are originally, identical twins; Eve is a clone of ha-adam. The novelty of the penis/phallus is that it's the first incarnation of the beguiling serpent who has his way with human history after the rise of the phallus and the fall of the identical nature of nature’s original human twins (ha-adam and Eve). The factuality of this statement, where the Hebrew text of the scripture is concerned, leads to a theological pearl of immeasurable value when we realize it demands that, having come so far as to understand that ha-adam and Eve are female clones, we think about the perceived nature of the original firstborn of creation as he would exist in profound contradistinction to the usurper Cain who’s conceived not by the breath, or blood, of God (the masculine source of ha-adam and Eve's genesis), but by the novel flesh (and the newfangled seed that testifies to its violent, degenerate, genesis), which (the novel flesh), proposes to pose as a new truth created wholesale in Genesis 2:21.

In Genesis 2:21, two novel entities enter into the Garden of Eden, the phallus, manufactured by closing up the petals on ha-adam's tulip (the Hebrew says the two lips of ha-adam's femininity are sutured סגר together to form the first phallus, Midrash Rabbah, Bere****h, XVII, 6), and secondarily, but of equal importance, the testimony come through the novel new flesh: the semen.

This theological semen, i.e., the first instance of semen in the Torah, is so little remarked on in Jewish or Christian theology as to almost defy belief. It's hidden throughout the Tanakh, but in plain sight, so that it almost appears Jews and Christians together, to a man, have made a pact not to notice or think about the most fertile source for unlocking innumerable and fundamental secrets lurking beneath the petals and pages of the Torah text. It's almost as though Jews and Christians share one fundamental theological premonition: fear of the theological semen that might show them to be more symbiotically related than either theology can bear, precisely because it proves that though they may indeed be brothers from another mother, they in truth, and fact, share the same father, and thus the same seminally flawed testemony.



John
reminded me of this poster
creation is a fecundating place
1Griffin.jpg
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Jdb said:
In an earlier thread I noted that ha-adam and Eve are originally, identical twins; Eve is a clone of ha-adam.

That is an assumption....no one knows how God used the rib of Adam to create his wife. To state that they were clones is to create a premise....an unfounded one, IMO.

. . . The Hebrew text of the scripture says far more than you might suspect when freed from the Masoretic straight-jacket that constrains the interpretations to the one transposed over the letters by the Masoretic points.

It's another thread, and another argument (different exegesis), but it can be proven scientifically, logically, and theologically, that ha-adam had a female body. Since this is the case, the true gender novelty in Genesis 2:21 isn't Eve, who's indeed created from ha-adam's DNA, and is thus a biological facsimile of ha-adam, but the transformation of ha-adam associated with the suturing of the labial flesh to make a newfangled monstrosity come down to us as the phallus.

No wonder then that Dante made it the mezuzah at the gates of hell. There could be no more fitting symbolism for what it is and represents.



John
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
. . . The Hebrew text of the scripture says far more than you might suspect when freed from the Masoretic straight-jacket that constrains the interpretations to the one transposed over the letters by the Masoretic points.

Nothing in scripture supports such a thing and I have to ask.......why should it?
Surely making all things "male and female" with a view to reproduction, makes perfect sense.....biologically, scripturally and logically.....?
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Nothing in scripture supports such a thing and I have to ask.......why should it?
Surely making all things "male and female" with a view to reproduction, makes perfect sense.....biologically, scripturally and logically.....?

Jesus was conceived without it the first time. And I was born again, in Christ, the second time, without it. A time is coming, very soon, when it will go the way of the dinosaur.

Unfortunately there are so many people who will stand aghast crying and mourning that their primary reason for living has been destroyed by the return of the Lord. . . Truth be known, many will chose it, have actually, over the Lord.

If loving it is wrong, they don't wanna be right. <s>



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Again you are assuming things that are not written in scripture.
Just because Adam and his wife were genetically related, does not make them identical twins. They might be likened to fraternal twins at best, but being told to “be fruitful and fill the earth” with their kind is hardly suggestive of them both being female. Jesus restated what God had originally said....”male and female he created them”. (Genesis 1:27; Matthew 19:4) So you have a union of male and female from the beginning who were to use their natural God-given powers of reproduction to fill the planet with their “kind”.

. . . Scripture is a living thing. It's not really like The Cat in the Hat unless that's how a person chooses to read it. It has depth beyond most people's wildest dreams. And I'm not talking about imaginative impositions onto the text. I'm talking about what the literal text is capable of saying to a person who treats it with the respect and care it requires.

For instance, there are contradiction between Genesis chapter one and two that make it clear to a serious student of the word of God that they (Genesis one and two) are speaking of two different events and not the same narrative. In truth, the second is the first, and the first is filled with serious concerns for serious students of the word of God.

The first human was created already pregnant with her firstborn son who was slated to be her husband. That pregnancy was part and parcel of the abortion that takes place in Genesis 2:21.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The “novel new flesh” was designed and created to produce new life. The suggestion stated here is way beyond anything mentioned in scripture....more a product of warped human imagination, I believe..

. . . For too many students of the scripture, if Shakespearean English was good enough for Moses, Jesus, and Paul, it's good enough for them. The King James canon is the lowest common denominator for their spiritual development.

The truth contained in the original languages have been aborted in the translations. And their interpretive violence (the interpreters) against the original text is often akin to the crucifixion of the living word.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
It appears as if you are running away with an idea that finds no support in God’s word.
It was after Adam and Eve’s defection that they conceived their firstborn, evicted from their paradise home, in less than optimal circumstances, as their children were now subject to the sinful nature of their disobedient parents. Sin invaded their very nature and this in turn created the violence and often demonstrated departure from the perfection with which God created the original humans. A cold blooded murderer was produced in just one generation......such is the power of sin. This is why God warned them not to touch that one tree in the garden that was God’s rightful property. A “knowledge of good and evil” would only bring disaster.....as we can see in every part of human history since then.

Your interpretation of Genesis 2:21 is flawed IMO. I cannot see any truth in what you have suggested here.

Cain and Abel are both conceived in the Garden. Cain's conception is the original sin. Abel was conceived by the Lord, though the Masoretic text tells you otherwise.

Abel is virgin conceived. He was in Eve when she was cloned from Adam. Abel was the true firstborn of Eve. Cain is a usurper. He's the first phallically conceived human. His twin brother, Abel, was already in the womb when Cain was being conceived through the original sin of phallic sex.

They don't teach this in Sunday school, or at synagogue. Rome and Jerusalem are still conspiring to keep simple truths hidden even if that requires some violence be done to the living word of God.



John
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Jesus was conceived without it the first time. And I was born again, in Christ, the second time, without it. A time is coming, very soon, when it will go the way of the dinosaur.

I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here....Jesus was not "conceived", he was created, just like all the other spirit sons who dwell in the spirit realm. God's firstborn (monogenes) had the unique privilege of being the only direct creation of his father....all the rest of creation came through the agency of the son. (Colossians 1:15-17)

Unfortunately there are so many people who will stand aghast crying and mourning that their primary reason for living has been destroyed by the return of the Lord.

That is indeed true.....but even "many" of those who claim Jesus as their "Lord" will be in for the shock of complete rejection. (Matthew 7:21-23)

It has depth beyond most people's wildest dreams. And I'm not talking about imaginative impositions onto the text. I'm talking about what the literal text is capable of saying to a person who treats it with the respect and care it requires.

I guess where you lost me is in the expression "capable of saying"...that is where an overactive imagination enters and leaves for me. God's word is HIS, and I do not believe that he has concealed anything from those who love him and genuinely seek to know him. (John 17:3)

There are no hidden messages in there....because God does not discriminate against people like that. The truth is simple enough for a child to comprehend...and that is where a lot of people fall in the hole of thinking that knowledge must be the result of much study and revealed secrets. Knowledge is a wonderful thing as long as its does not connect with the ego.

As Paul said...."We know we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know it as he should know it. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him."
So what is more important? Knowledge or love? We need both in the right measure.
John explains why love is the identifier of Chris's disciples....
John 13:34-35...
"I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

It is love, not just knowledge that identifies Christ's true disciples. What form would that love take if it is to be clearly seen among the brotherhood? May I ask if you have such a brotherhood? I know I do.

For instance, there are contradiction between Genesis chapter one and two that make it clear to a serious student of the word of God that they (Genesis one and two) are speaking of two different events and not the same narrative. In truth, the second is the first, and the first is filled with serious concerns for serious students of the word of God.

I completely disagree. I see Genesis ch 2 as a "history" or "genealogy" relating to what God did with the people rather than the broad stroke of creation in Ch 1.
Ch 2 fills in details missing in Ch 1. You appear to want to rewrite God's word to suit your own ideas.....that is never a wise thing to do IMO.

The first human was created already pregnant with her firstborn son who was slated to be her husband. That pregnancy was part and parcel of the abortion that takes place in Genesis 2:21.

Whoah! Now you have really run away with the pixies! Where will I find anything even close to that in Genesis? :facepalm:
Sounds like a bad sci-fi movie....:eek: Where is your back up? You can't make such wild statement without some evidence of their authenticity.

The truth contained in the original languages have been aborted in the translations. And their interpretive violence (the interpreters) against the original text is often akin to the crucifixion of the living word.

Or perhaps your own interpretation of things is murdering the plot...? o_O Who else shares these beliefs of yours?

If you believe that God created the Universe, then the inspiration and preservation of his word would not be beyond his capabilities....would it?

Cain and Abel are both conceived in the Garden. Cain's conception is the original sin. Abel was conceived by the Lord, though the Masoretic text tells you otherwise.

Cain and Abel were both conceived by natural means outside the garden....born in sin, which explains Cain murdering his younger brother in a fit of jealousy.

Abel is virgin conceived. He was in Eve when she was cloned from Adam. Abel was the true firstborn of Eve. Cain is a usurper. He is the first phallically conceived human. His twin brother, Abel, was already in the womb when Cain was being conceived through the original sin of phallic sex.

What???? Are you serious? There is nothing like this in my Bible...I don't know what you are using for your Biblical references, but I have never even heard of anything like this? Surely if this was the truth, God would have it broadcast to his servants in all the world? He doesn't hide the truth from anyone. Why would he?
Did you make this up?

They don't teach this in Sunday school, or at synagogue. Rome and Jerusalem are still conspiring to keep simple truths hidden even if that requires some violence be done to the living word of God.

God will never allow man to tamper with his word......he has preserved it down through time despite many attempts to destroy it. They may mess with the interpretation, but no one will alter its message about the Kingdom of God....and the place of Jesus Christ as Messiah and King. Genesis to Revelation is one story around that central theme.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here....Jesus was not "conceived", he was created, just like all the other spirit sons who dwell in the spirit realm. God's firstborn (monogenes) had the unique privilege of being the only direct creation of his father....all the rest of creation came through the agency of the son. (Colossians 1:15-17)

. . . I think we might have merely a semantic distinction. I agree Jesus is God's firstborn and the agency of creation. And yet he gestated in the womb of Mary. The word "conceived" can speak of a "thought" (a "conception") so that Jesus was a "thought" a "word" a "conception" in God from the get-go.


John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
I guess where you lost me is in the expression "capable of saying"...that is where an overactive imagination enters and leaves for me. God's word is HIS, and I do not believe that he has concealed anything from those who love him and genuinely seek to know him. (John 17:3)

There are no hidden messages in there....because God does not discriminate against people like that. The truth is simple enough for a child to comprehend...and that is where a lot of people fall in the hole of thinking that knowledge must be the result of much study and revealed secrets. Knowledge is a wonderful thing as long as its does not connect with the ego.

As Paul said...."We know we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know it as he should know it. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him."
So what is more important? Knowledge or love? We need both in the right measure.
John explains why love is the identifier of Chris's disciples....
John 13:34-35...
"I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

It is love, not just knowledge that identifies Christ's true disciples. What form would that love take if it is to be clearly seen among the brotherhood? May I ask if you have such a brotherhood? I know I do.

Study to show yourself approved unto God as a workman that needn't be ashamed, correctly exegeting the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15.​

I agree that knowledge puffeth up and is a dangerous thing at times. But lack of knowledge can puff up too.

The same sword that in unskilled hands has been known to lob of the head of the untrained swordsman when he draws it back to strike his opponent can serve the king admirably in the hands of one who has studied swordsmanship.


John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
There are no hidden messages in there....because God does not discriminate against people like that. The truth is simple enough for a child to comprehend...

. . . And yet we read in 2 Peter 3:15:

Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation just as our dear brother Paul wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are difficult to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction.​

Much, if not most, of today's interpretation of scripture is the product of unstable and ignorant men who have done a grave disservice to the living word of God.

True enough the truths in the scripture are as simple as all other truth, so that the key is not to try and make them complicated.

Nevertheless, it's sometimes a complicated thing to uncomplicate what man has made complicated. . . That can sometimes require a person whose thought processes are as complex as the charlatans who've complicated God's simple truths.



John
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
God will never allow man to tamper with his word......he has preserved it down through time despite many attempts to destroy it. They may mess with the interpretation, but no one will alter its message about the Kingdom of God....and the place of Jesus Christ as Messiah and King. Genesis to Revelation is one story around that central theme.

God allowed the living word to be crucified. And he allowed the dead-letter (the Tanakh) to be nailed down by the Masoretes so that ignorant Christians to this very day think their "Old Testament" (which is a profane product of the Masoretic text) is the god-given version of the Hebrew text of the Torah.

Are you aware that your "Old Testament" is a translation made from the Masoretic text, which is the Jewish interpretation of the text that legitimized the crucifixion of Jesus?

When Jesus said to his audience that they have heard it written that such and such is the case, but that he is about to give them the truth, he is setting his own interpretation, or foreknowledge really, of what the Hebrew text is really saying against the Jewish massorah that became the Masoretic text.

The Masoretic text is a Jewish interpretation of the Tanahk. But it's not the only way the Hebrew can be interpreted. To believe it is, and to take it as authoritative concerning the Gospel and Apostolic writing, proves that God's word can be distorted and abused by wicked men, and that even well-interventioned men and women can be bamboozled by bad translations and religious falsifications.


John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
What???? Are you serious? There is nothing like this in my Bible...I don't know what you are using for your Biblical references, but I have never even heard of anything like this? Surely if this was the truth, God would have it broadcast to his servants in all the world? He doesn't hide the truth from anyone. Why would he?
Did you make this up?

Truly you are a God who hides himself, O God and Savior of Israel.

Isaiah 45:15.

He said, "Go and tell this people: be ever hearing, but never understanding . . . make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."​

Isaiah 6:9-10.​

The dull-hearted Jews of Isaiah's day will rise up in righteous indignation against this generation since their (Isaiah's Jew's) stubborn heart is pure in measure to the fake-faith of today's hard-hearted harlots.



John
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
. . . I think we might have merely a semantic distinction. I agree Jesus is God's firstborn and the agency of creation. And yet he gestated in the womb of Mary. The word "conceived" can speak of a "thought" (a "conception") so that Jesus was a "thought" a "word" a "conception" in God from the get-go.

This is how I see the situation from my own deep study of the scriptures.....

Since Jesus had to become the “redeemer” of the whole human race, we have to go back to Genesis to understand that he was the one, from man’s fall in Eden, who would rectify the damage done by three original rebels. (Genesis 3:15; 1 John 3:8)

This first Bible prophesy was shrouded in mystery for centuries until the coming of that promised “seed”...who became Jesus the Christ. He was sent by God from heaven to pay a “ransom” for mankind. (Matthew 20:28) Perfect sinless human life was lost for all of Adam’s children, and only a perfect sinless life could be offered in exchange for them.

Prior to the fall, there was no need for a redeemer or a kingdom or any kind of rescue mission for Adam’s children, but Adam abused his free will and incurred a debt, selling his future children into slavery to sin and death, with no way to redeem themselves.

The pre-human Jesus had acted as “the Word” (one who spoke and acted for God as his ‘right hand man’) all through human history. But the time came for the Redeemer to arrive, and because he had to be fully human to pay the ransom price, his life force was “gestated in the womb of Mary” and he was born, fully human, but without sin. His divine origins did not make him God, however. So his death had to be as a mortal human. But his resurrection was not the same as resurrections that he and his apostles performed in those days.....but that is another subject.

This unique child was raised by faithful Jewish parents (specially selected) and showed no sign of any miraculous abilities until his anointing with God’s spirit at his baptism.

So from that point on, (as God’s anointed) he revealed many things about God’s purpose in connection with the role of the Messiah, and gave “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” a way out of the corrupted system that was treating them as unworthy of God’s love and attention. He started something that even his sacrificial death, would not end.

So that is the how I see Messiah’s role from the beginning of his spirit existence, to the end of his earthly life.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Study to show yourself approved unto God as a workman that needn't be ashamed, correctly exegeting the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15.​
Can I ask what translation you use?

That rendering does not seem to match the Greek Interlinear.

Be diligent to present yourself before God as one tried and true, an unashamed worker , correctly handling the word of truth” . (MOUNCE Interlinear)

I agree that knowledge puffeth up and is a dangerous thing at times. But lack of knowledge can puff up too.

Twisted knowledge is even worse IMO.

The same sword that in unskilled hands has been known to lob of the head of the untrained swordsman when he draws it back to strike his opponent can serve the king admirably in the hands of one who has studied swordsmanship.

We can use the truth to dispel falsehood, and that is exactly what Jesus did when the Jewish religious leaders twisted scripture in order to feather their own nests and elevate their own status. Jesus exposed them as the hypocrites they were, and showed the lost sheep that their leaders were not the ones approved by God, but that they could be, if they simply conducted themselves as God directed. He was their model as well as their teacher.

Jesus showed them the correct application of their scripture and the correct attitude to have in service to their God. So knowledge is important but it has to be properly understood and applied. God gives his blessing in ways that show his approval.

Jesus never once recommended the rabbinical schools for his disciples for the simple reason that these were not teaching the right application of scripture. This was used by the Jews to ridicule Jesus’ disciples as “uneducated”.....but in fact they had been taught by the greatest teacher who ever lived on earth.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
. . . And yet we read in 2 Peter 3:15:

Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation just as our dear brother Paul wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are difficult to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction.​

Much, if not most, of today's interpretation of scripture is the product of unstable and ignorant men who have done a grave disservice to the living word of God.

I have to agree with you here....history repeats as Jesus and his apostles foretold. The apostasy that overtook the Jews had them accusing Jesus and his apostles of apostasy, when it was they who had apostatized from the law and the prophets, substituting their own traditions for the word of God.

“Christianity” has suffered the same experience. The traditions of men have again replaced the teachings of the scriptures as Christ said......the “weeds” of fake Christianity were sown by the devil “while men were sleeping”......What we see presented as the Christian Faith, bears little resemblance to what Jesus and his apostles began. It was to be expected though...just not by the ones who accepted the fake form of Christianity and assumed it was the truth.

True enough the truths in the scripture are as simple as all other truth, so that the key is not to try and make them complicated.

Nevertheless, it's sometimes a complicated thing to uncomplicate what man has made complicated. . . That can sometimes require a person whose thought processes are as complex as the charlatans who've complicated God's simple truths.

I see in prophesy a reason for hope....a way to undo the damage.
Daniel’s book of prophesy was to be “sealed up” until “the time of the end”.....only then would the meaning of it’s contents be revealed. In that prophesy Daniel foretold that a “cleansing, whitening and refining” of God’s worshippers would take place at this time. Only those who accepted the cleansing would be granted “insight” into the truth, whereas the “wicked” would see no need for the cleansing (like pigs in mud) they would not recognize the filth, but continue to wallow in it. (Daniel 124; 9-10)

Breaking down the spiritual “filth” that has crept in over many centuries, needed the aid of God’s spirit, but our common enemy has had thousands of years to perfect his deceptions, so only God’s spirit could combat the influence of his empire of false religion. It looks like the real deal to those immersed in it, but God will choose the ones in whom he sees an honest heart, and he will re-educate them. Just as Paul was reeducated and became what he at first despised.

It is the same process that Jesus used to separate 'the lost sheep' out of Judaism. Only a relative “few” responded back then, and according to Jesus, only a relative “few” will respond at this “time of the end”. (Matthew 7:13-14)

But, as it was in the first century, individuals will be drawn into one cohesive brotherhood, all believing the same truth. (1 Corinthians 1:10) "Love among themselves" was to be the identifying mark (John 10:35) not division.....so no isolated individuals will be part of this ingathering, struggling to become a lone voice in a world with their collective fingers in their ears.

Jesus said he would appoint a “faithful and discreet slave” at this time who would “feed” his entire household their “food at the proper time”. (Matthew 24:45) When we find that "slave" we need to pull up a chair at his table and enjoy the feast along with our entire brotherhood.

That is how I see the situation.
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
This is how I see the situation from my own deep study of the scriptures.....

Since Jesus had to become the “redeemer” of the whole human race, we have to go back to Genesis to understand that he was the one, from man’s fall in Eden, who would rectify the damage done by three original rebels. (Genesis 3:15; 1 John 3:8)

This first Bible prophesy was shrouded in mystery for centuries until the coming of that promised “seed”...who became Jesus the Christ. He was sent by God from heaven to pay a “ransom” for mankind. (Matthew 20:28) Perfect sinless human life was lost for all of Adam’s children, and only a perfect sinless life could be offered in exchange for them.

Prior to the fall, there was no need for a redeemer or a kingdom or any kind of rescue mission for Adam’s children, but Adam abused his free will and incurred a debt, selling his future children into slavery to sin and death, with no way to redeem themselves.

The pre-human Jesus had acted as “the Word” (one who spoke and acted for God as his ‘right hand man’) all through human history. But the time came for the Redeemer to arrive, and because he had to be fully human to pay the ransom price, his life force was “gestated in the womb of Mary” and he was born, fully human, but without sin. His divine origins did not make him God, however. So his death had to be as a mortal human. But his resurrection was not the same as resurrections that he and his apostles performed in those days.....but that is another subject.

This unique child was raised by faithful Jewish parents (specially selected) and showed no sign of any miraculous abilities until his anointing with God’s spirit at his baptism.

So from that point on, (as God’s anointed) he revealed many things about God’s purpose in connection with the role of the Messiah, and gave “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” a way out of the corrupted system that was treating them as unworthy of God’s love and attention. He started something that even his sacrificial death, would not end.

So that is the how I see Messiah’s role from the beginning of his spirit existence, to the end of his earthly life.

. . . I don't think I disagree with anything you said. It's just using everything you said to exegete every jot and tittle of the scripture (bringing it all into focus and consistency) that takes some time, study, and effort.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Breaking down the spiritual “filth” that has crept in over many centuries, needed the aid of God’s spirit, but our common enemy has has thousands of years to perfect his deceptions, so only God’s spirit could combat the influence of his empire of false religion. It looks like the real deal to those immersed in it, but God will choose the ones in whom he sees an honest heart, and he will re-educate them. Just as Paul was reeducated and became what he at first despised.

Amen.

We agree about the simplicity of the truth of scripture. But there are enemies of the simplicity. And they have so distorted things that even well-meaning servants of the Lord are caught up in the shenanigans of the charlatans.

What is particularly important concerning this particular thread, is that the charlatans have literally made asinine falsehoods to be accepted as orthodox truth in both Judaism and Christianity. For instance, Adam absolutely had a female body, not a male body. And yet Judaism and Christianity both teach that adam was originally, rather than only after his body was desecrated in Genesis 2:21, a male body.

This makes the female and afterthought. God allegedly forgot to make the woman from the get-go. Which is asinine and pathetic. The female is not an after-thought. Or even secondary, so far as physical reality is concerned. In physical reality, in truth, the female comes before the ******* flesh of the male.



John
 
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