Btw his question is interesting and makes reflect.OOOHhhhhh....
Wouldn't it be the same way as someone of Jewish decent believes in the Exodus and says it is true even though they didn't witness it either?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
... and if you're wrong?
- Thread starter Tumah
- Start date
Speaking of the III century...by the time of Diocletian, you can comprehend how those ancient Romans were tired of the pagan morals and decided to convert to the Religion of Love.
With a God promising them Heaven made of Love.
Conquered, of course, through Christ's merits.
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
True prophets of God had to meet three basic qualifications. They had to (1) speak in the name of God—which a false prophet who knew the Hebrew name of God would improperly presume to do; (2) the things they foretold would have to come true—which in the case of false prophets might happen either by coincidence or demonic manipulation; and (3) their prophesying had to be in harmony with God’s revealed Word and commandments put in writing up to their time.—Deut. 13:1-4; 18:20-22.
Everything Jesus spoke of us from Jehovah's mouth. Why do people today still follow the belief he did not come from God?
Jesus said to the Jewish religious leaders:
"You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”-John 8:44-47.
How aptly he told those religious hypocrites:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Ge·henʹna twice as much so as yourselves."-Matthew 23:15.
Naturally I disagree, but I don't want to derail the thread. Quoting the CT won't help here since the thrust of the thread is exactly that - how can you trust them?
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
I will tell you that not even Jesus could help a lot of those Jews. Let me share something with you. Jesus raised Lazarus, a friend of his who had been dead for 3 days, back to life.
Do you know what the religious leaders of the Jews did when they saw it?
They became enraged, and not only plotted to kill Jesus, but then turned around and plotted to murder Lazarus to put him to death again out of envy and jealousy.
Are you really sure that is what you want to be a part of?
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
so by all that one could say this implies the species of man has those who will have this kind of aptitude, "dreamer' or prophet....basically a soothsayer of shaman, pop up demographically, and this is an office for which those so picked by whatever fates decide such things, must be tested with a simple ping to assay veracity of their message they are "picked" to channel or manifest.
?
exchemist
Veteran Member
Ordinary people have lives to live and put their trust in the relevant experts, as we all, every day, on a multitude of things. If those experts turn out to be wrong, it is hardly the fault of those who rely on them for not spotting the flaw.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Look Ken, your definitely adding your own interpretation to this passage because while the passage does differentiate between the current covenant and the new one, it doesn't anywhere state the the difference will be in the content of the covenant, but in the way the covenant is to be accessed. That's the only difference the passage here described.
So if the NT was describing how children magically know that on the 15th of Tishri it's the festival of Tabernacles without being taught by anyone, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. If adults who grew up lacking any religious education would know to attach fringes to their clothing, I'd probably be on your side. But that's not the case.
And even more than that, your NT proof texts are making claims that are verifiably not true. Non-Christian people do need someone to teach them Christian theology in order to know what it's about. Remember missionaries? That's what they do. So this passage in Jeremiah does nothing for Christianity.
The thesis of the "blind men and the elephant" is that all views are partially correct and partially false. Behind that is the unspoken statement that God's reality is beyond religion.
I was reprimanded on RF for posting in the Judaism DIR because being a "Jewish person" is different than being someone who identifies with and practices Judaism.
Your "Jewish person" comment triggered this post.
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
as I recall there is a passage in the bible that goes something like ...when everybody dies and is shut of this world, they will see what God was up to and everyman will see they had it wrong [my bastardized version of it].
PureX
Veteran Member
I am not religious. I don't see the Christian ideal as being 'mystical', or the people presenting them to me as being 'sacred' in any way. I am basically a philosophical Christian/taoist. For me, the ideals these two ideologies present are logical, and applicable, and they 'work'. So that's the experience I'm speaking to.
That is my belief as well. And that applies to true "miracles" as well as the common fake miracles.
Tumah
Veteran Member
No, I'm actually asking something slightly different. When G-d wanted to reveal the Torah to the Jewish people through Moses, He made it that the entire nation experienced His revelation in accordance with what Moses said. No one at the time would have questioned whether Moses was truly a prophet of G-d. They might not want to listen to him, but they couldn't question his authority as a prophet of G-d. In fact, when Korah questioned whether everything Moses did really was from G-d, he was promptly dropped into the ground in front of everyone, establishing again Moses' authority.If I have understood correctly, @Tumah wants to know how those who didn't witness Jesus' resurrection and miracles (mostly Gentiles) believed those who did witness them.
How do we know that they were not liars... he asks.
So not compare that national Divine revelation to the revelation that brought you the NT. A handful or maybe even a few handfuls of people claim that they saw a guy buried in a cave and a few days later he wasn't there. And on the basis of that event, there's an expectation that the descendants of the people who received Divine revelation of G-d would drop everything and move to this new form of religion.
The way the first Law was established more strongly proved itself to its intended audience than the second one. And rationally, it should be the opposite: it should take a stronger proof to annul an established point than the one used to establish it in the first place.
That is not enough. If I nuke Africans, and love Austrians, I will have fulfilled the commandments, since Austrians are my neighbors, while Africans are not.Exactly. That is what Jesus said. To love the neighbor.
So how can something Good be the product of Satan?
So, love your neighbor, is amenable of being treated as a racist command.
You assume that what Jesus says is Good, and what Satan does is Bad. How do you base your assumption, before knowing what good is, and bad is?
for example, how do you know that what Satan proposes, is bad?
ciao
- viole
Last edited:
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
brought to mind this thought process>
placebo's work despite the defiance by such a principle of all that is reasonable to the materialist perspective
should be impossible, but mind over matter, apparently.
if you don't mind, then it doesn't matter, but if you do mind, then it takes on substance.[to turn a phrase]
the observer does affect the outcome, albeit in the weirdest of ways.
Neighbor = everyone, even ETs
No, to the extent that Satan tells you that it is bad.My heart tells me
Does your heart tell you that what Satan says, is good...by chance?
how do you know that is is bad?
suppose I tell you that what god wants is evil, and that what satan wants is good, how would you defeat me?
ciao
- viole