For the first time in years....

Windwalker · Sep 17, 2020

Amanaki said:
I do agree that its much up to me to become a good muslim its a lot of thinking and watching my own thoughts speech and action, those 3 things are the same in every religion or spiritual path

Yes, minding one's thoughts, speech, and actions is foundational to any spiritual path. Even if that is all the further one goes into discovery of the spiritual practices, that alone has benefit to everyone.

Amanaki said:
I might have misunderstood his intention with his answer, but i personally do not see physically objecrs or useage of them, as something that bring salvation or enlightenment to humans. Only spiritual practcan do that. I might be strickt on that but its how i been thinking for a long time.

It really depends on what you mean here by physical objects. The human body is a physical object, but the habitation of that physical object with the mind, spirit, and emotions, is very, very much a path to spiritual awakening. It is your own spiritual house, to put in simple terms. You live in it and experience everything in it.

But if you mean the use of external objects as aides to spiritual practices, such as a murti? Or perhaps you mean using drums in spiritual practice? Dancing? Again, with any of those, as well as the physical act of bowing down and praying to God in any form of ritualized behaviors (5 times a day to Mecca, for instance), those are also physical object, through which our spiritual self connects to God, or the inner Self.

So I'm not sure if you think using any physical forms at all, does not, nor cannot lead to Enlightenment? Can you clarify?

Spirit of Light · Sep 17, 2020

Windwalker said:
Yes, minding one's thoughts, speech, and actions is foundational to any spiritual path. Even if that is all the further one goes into discovery of the spiritual practices, that alone has benefit to everyone.

It really depends on what you mean here by physical objects. The human body is a physical object, but the habitation of that physical object with the mind, spirit, and emotions, is very, very much a path to spiritual awakening. It is your own spiritual house, to put in simple terms. You live in it and experience everything in it.

But if you mean the use of external objects as aides to spiritual practices, such as a murti? Or perhaps you mean using drums in spiritual practice? Dancing? Again, with any of those, as well as the physical act of bowing down and praying to God in any form of ritualized behaviors (5 times a day to Mecca, for instance), those are also physical object, through which our spiritual self connects to God, or the inner Self.

So I'm not sure if you think using any physical forms at all, does not, nor cannot lead to Enlightenment? Can you clarify?

Enlightenment happens from within the persons mind, not from physical objects in my understanding

Windwalker · Sep 17, 2020

Amanaki said:
Enlightenment happens from within the persons mind, not from physical objects in my understanding

While Enlightenment does not come from objects outside of yourself, that does not mean that someone cannot make use of physical forms on their path to inner Enlightenment. You bow down 5 times a day in ritual prayer. That very much is using physical objects as part of a spiritual practice: prayer rug, facing Mecca, Mecca itself, using body to bow, physical gestures of the hands, the tongue itself in prayer, holy objects, such a the Quran, etc.

Would you agree with that, or did you have something else in mind? It seems you were saying that drumming, or practicing taijiquan cannot lead to Enlightenment because it's using physical forms and objects. Can't those be considered forms of prayer, using physical objects such as you utilize yourself too?

Spirit of Light · Sep 17, 2020

Windwalker said:
While Enlightenment does not come from objects outside of yourself, that does not mean that someone cannot make use of physical forms on their path to inner Enlightenment. You bow down 5 times a day in ritual prayer. That very much is using physical objects as part of a spiritual practice: prayer rug, facing Mecca, Mecca itself, using body to bow, physical gestures of the hands, the tongue itself in prayer, holy objects, such a the Quran, etc.

Would you agree with that, or did you have something else in mind? It seems you were saying that drumming, or practicing taijiquan cannot lead to Enlightenment because it's using physical forms and objects. Can't those be considered forms of prayer, using physical objects such as you utilize yourself too?

The holy Qur'an, praying rug or even the direction to Mecca is a tool in the practice of Islam yes, but except for the Qur'an and prayer it would be possible to practice Islam,
It is said from Muhammad that we are obligated to pray 5 times a day. So prayer is a technique to get closer to Allah, just like meditation is a technique for Buddhists

A full drumset is not a spiritual tool, but rythem can be used to enter trance that is true

Windwalker · Sep 17, 2020

Amanaki said:
The holy Qur'an, praying rug or even the direction to Mecca is a tool in the practice of Islam yes, but except for the Qur'an and prayer it would be possible to practice Islam,
It is said from Muhammad that we are obligated to pray 5 times a day. So prayer is a technique to get closer to Allah, just like meditation is a technique for Buddhists

Prayer itself, is a form of guided meditation. Praying is focusing the mind with intention towards the divine, or the higher truth or power. Chanting the same prayer when you bow, is a form of mantra meditation. These are all beneficial mediation practices.

Amanaki said:
A full drumset is not a spiritual tool, but rythem can be used to enter trance that is true

It really depends on how someone treats their drum set. If they used in as part of worshipping the divine, or for creating states of higher awareness (what uninformed and presuming Westerns back in the past mistook calling them inappropriately as "trances", when they first encountered them in India), then it is a spiritual tool for them.

Anything can be made sacred, simply by the intention of the user. You could make a simple pop bottle sacred, if held spiritual significance to you and you used it to worship God with.

stvdv · Sep 17, 2020

viole said:
Like me believing women should wear what they want, vs. you believing they should look like Batman.

I think Americans would like them to look like "Bat-man"
I never could understand this Halloween masked thing
Americans have something in common with Islam

Although, now with corona, it's Halloween everywhere

stvdv · Sep 17, 2020

Amanaki said:
Its a long time since i have laughed this much from my own faults, my keyboard is funny today.

This can be a Leela of God. So many times crazy things happens with my computer, which is impossible. I see that as a wink of God; what better way to get a computer geek to believe in God than making the scientific impossible possible, with his computers and other electrical equipment?

God really seems to like it to show of that He is in control, and not I. Took me many years to realize this was more than just coincidence.

Workman · Sep 17, 2020

Amanaki said:
Sitting in the livingroom reading the Quran in silence, wondering about something i was reading. So i deside to ask.

Allah, i dont understand, what can i do to gain your wisdom. And the warmest feeling spread in my body, so calm and relaxed, so i gain the feeling of reading the chapter again. And now i see the meaning behind the words. I suddenly understood the message.

For the first time in years i feel i have progress as a religioues person. And i see that i was missing the messages previously, i was focusing on the wrong things. My listening skills was not there before.

Have you had similar experience in your spiritual journey? Or am i only to excited about the new teaching?

Become more than You.(like a by-passer)

bless you brother.

Spirit of Light · Sep 17, 2020

Workman said:
Become more than You.(like a by-passer)

bless you brother.

Thank you sister

stvdv · Sep 17, 2020

Amanaki said:
Its a long time since i have laughed this much from my own faults, my keyboard is funny today.

IF a Religion change makes you laugh like never before THEN you have proof it's the right Religion for you (remember 3 laughing monks

)

Spirit of Light · Sep 17, 2020

stvdv said:
IF a Religion change makes you laugh like never before THEN you have proof it's the right Religion for you (remember 3 laughing monks)

Yes

i feel at home

BSM1 · Sep 17, 2020

viole said:
Oh yes, you have a point here. Diversity is so enriching

where would the world be if we did not having contrasting opinions?

Like me believing women should wear what they want, vs. you believing they should look like Batman.

ciao

- viole

..or Bat Girl...

For the first time in years....

Windwalker

Veteran Member

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want

Windwalker

Veteran Member

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want

Windwalker

Veteran Member

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Workman

UNIQUE

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want

BSM1

What? Me worry?