Really can you eat meat?

jewscout · Dec 22, 2004

since someone posted a similar question in an LDS-only thread i thought i'd open it up to everyone. Does your religion allow you to eat meat? Are there other dietary stipulations?

pensive · Dec 22, 2004

jewscout said:
since someone posted a similar question in an LDS-only thread i thought i'd open it up to everyone. Does your religion allow you to eat meat? Are there other dietary stipulations?

Eating meat? No problem. The God of Wicca has been described as both the Hunter and the Hunted. That's not to say, however, that there aren't serious ethical issues where the meat industry is concerned these days, mind you.

The only dietary stipulations -- and these are not universal -- is that prior to certain rituals, certain observances might be called for. (These observances can range anywhere from a complete fast to eating light, low fat foods.) But when it comes to day-to-day dietary considerations, the sky is the limit. (Though healthy eating is always recommended.)

true blood · Dec 22, 2004

John 4: 31-34: In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of...

pensive · Dec 22, 2004

true blood said:
John 4: 31-34: In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of...

Having read those verses in context, I really don't see how they answer the question.

huajiro · Dec 22, 2004

My diet doesnt revolve around my religion (or lack of), my religion revolves around my diet. I don't believe in eating meat, I don't believe in a "God" who allows this

Druidus · Dec 22, 2004

I don't, not because of religion, but because I can't justify needless mass execution for purely selfish reasons (taste).

Here are religious quotes against it, should anyone care to read them:

All are under heaven. Regard heaven as your father, earth as your mother, and all things as your brothers and sisters.

Shinto. Oracle of the Kami of Atsuta
The mode of living which is founded upon a total harmlessness towards all living creatures is of the highest morality.

Hinduism. Mahabharata, Shantiparva
One should not injure, subjugate, enslave, torture, or kill any animal, living being, organism, or sentient being. This doctrine of nonviolence is immaculate, immutable, and eternal. Just as suffering is painful to you, in the same way it is painful, disquieting, and terrifying to all animals, living beings, organisms, and sentient beings.

Jainism. Acarangasutra

A horse or a cow has four feet. That is Nature. Put a halter around
the horse's head and put a ring through the cow's nose, that is man.
Let man not destroy Nature. Let not
cleverness destroy the destiny of the natural order."

Taoism. Chuang Tzu
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, they who partake of benefits which are gotten by wronging one of God's creatures cannot be righteous: nor can they touch holy things, or teach the mysteries of the kingdom, whose hands are stained with blood, or whose mouths are defiled with flesh.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

According to Abu Hurairah, the Messenger of God said, "A man traveling along a road felt extremely thirsty and went down a well and drank. When he came up he saw a dog panting with thirst and licking the moist earth around the well. "This animal," the man said, "is suffering from thirst just as much as I was." So he went down the well again, filled his shoe with water, and taking it in his teeth climbed out of the well and gave the water to the dog. God was pleased with his act and granted him pardon for his sins."

Islam. Hadith of Bukhari
If one is trying to practice meditation and is still eating meat, he would be like a man closing his ears and shouting loudly and then asserting that he heard nothing... Pure and earnest bhikshus, when walking a narrow path, will never so much as tread on the growing grass beside the path. How can a bhikshu, who hopes to become a deliverer of others, himself be living on the flesh of other sentient beings? Pure and earnest bhikshus will never wear clothing made of silk, nor wear boots made of leather for it involves the taking of life. Neither will they partake from milk or cheese for these are not intended for man.

Buddhism. Surangama Sutra

This is the quintessence of wisdom: not to kill anything. Know this to be the legitimate conclusion from the principle of reciprocity with regard to non-killing. He should cease to injure living beings whether they move or not, on high, below, and on earth. For this has been called the Nirvana, which consists in peace....

A true monk should not accept such food and drink as has been especially prepared for him involving the slaughter of living beings. He should not partake of a meal which contains but a particle of forbidden food: this is the Law of him who is rich in control. Whatever he suspects, he may not eat. A man who guards his soul and subdues his senses, should never assent to anybody killing living beings.

Jainism. Sutrakritanga

And all the creatures, which are under heaven, each according to its nature, serve, know and obey their Creator better than you. · And even the demons did not crucify Chris, but you together with them have crucified Him and even now you crucify (Him) by delighting in vices and sins.

Saint Francis of Assisi

A man should not breed a savage dog, nor place a shaking ladder in his house.

Judaism. Talmud, Ketubot
And none shall hurt or destroy in my holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Holy One even as the waters cover the bed of the sea. And in that day I will make again a covenant with the beasts of the earth and the fowls of the air, and the fishes of the sea and with all created things. And will break the bow and the sword and all the instruments of warfare will I banish from the earth, and will make them to lie down in safety, and to live without fear.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof,
the world and those who dwell therein.

Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Psalm 24.1

Without doing injury to living beings, meat cannot be had anywhere; and the killing of living beings is not conducive to heaven; hence eating of meat should be avoided.

Hinduism. Laws of Manu 5.48

May no living creatures, not even insects,
Be bound unto samsaric life; nay, not one of them;
But may I be empowered to save them all.

Buddhism. Milarepa

Enoch looked upon the earth; and he heard a voice from the bowels thereof, saying, "Woe, woe is me, the mother of men; I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children. When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me? When will my Creator sanctify me, that I may rest, and righteousness for a season abide upon my face?" And when Enoch heard the earth mourn, he wept, and cried unto the Lord, saying, "O Lord, wilt Thou not have compassion upon the earth?"

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Pearl of Great Price, Moses

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
and the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
and a little child shall lead them.

Druidus · Dec 22, 2004

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Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Isaiah 11.6-9

Buy captive animals and give them freedom.
How commendable is abstinence that dispenses with the butcher!
While walking be mindful of worms and ants.
Be cautious with fire and do not set mountain woods or forests ablaze.

Do not go into the mountain to catch birds in nets, nor to the water to
poison fishes and minnows.
Do not butcher the ox that plows your field.

Taoism. Tract of the Quiet Way

God's hand has touched even every small blade of grass which grows in the field.... All creatures we see contain God's deep heart and tell the story of God's deep love.

Unification Church. Sun Myung Moon

This earth is a garden, The Lord its gardener,
Cherishing all, none neglected.

Sikhism. Adi Granth, Mahj Ashtpadi

They in every nation who defile not themselves with cruelty, who do righteousness, love mercy, and reverence all the works of God, who give succour to all that are weak and oppressedthe same are the Israel of God.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

Even in a single leaf of a tree, or a tender blade of grass, the awe-inspiring Deity manifests Itself.

Shinto. Urabe-no-Kanekuni

The stream crosses the path, the path crosses the stream:
Which of them is the elder?
Did we not cut the path to go and meet this stream?
The stream had its origin long, long ago.
It had its origin in the Creator.
He created things pure, pure, tano.

African Traditional Religions. Ashanti Verse

Have you considered the soil you till?
Do you yourselves sow it, or are We the Sowers?
Did We will, We would make it broken orts, and you will remain bitterly
jesting--
"We are debt-loaded;
nay, we have been robbed."

Have you considered the water you drink?
Did you send it down from the clouds, or did We send it?
Did We will, We would make it bitter; so why are you not thankful?

Have you considered the fire you kindle?
Did you make its timber to grow, or did We make it?
We Ourselves made it for a reminder,
and a boon to the desert-dwellers.

Islam. Qur'an

Not by shedding innocent blood, therefore, but by living a righteous life, shall ye find the peace of God.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

No creature is there crawling on the earth,
no bird flying with its wings,
but they are nations like yourselves.
We have neglected nothing in the Book;
then to their Lord they shall be mustered.

Islam. Qur'an

I say, "Just as the consciousness of a man born without any sense organs [i.e., one who is blind, deaf, dumb, crippled, etc. from birth] is not manifest, likewise the consciousness of beings of earth-body [e.g., atoms, minerals] is also not manifest. Nevertheless such a man experiences pain when struck or cut by a weapon, and so also do the beings of earth-body. Likewise for water-beings... fire-beings... plants... animals... air beings: their consciousness and experiences of pain are [actual though] not manifest."

Jainism. Acarangasutra

Tao gave them birth; The power of Tao reared them,
Shaped them according to their kinds,
Perfected them, giving to each its strength.
Therefore of the ten thousand things there is not one that does not
worship Tao and do homage to its power. Yet no mandate ever went forth
that accorded to Tao the right to be worshipped, nor to its power the
right to receive homage. It was always and of itself so.

Therefore as Tao bore them and the power of Tao reared them, made them
grow, fostered them, harbored them, brewed for them, so you must
Rear them, but do not lay claim to them;
Control them, but never lean upon them,
Be their steward, but do not manage them.
This is called the Mysterious Power.

Taoism. Tao Te Ching

Yea, I am in all creatures and all creatures are in me. In all their joys I rejoice, in all their afflictions I am afflicted. Wherefore I say unto you: Be ye kind one to another, and to all the creatures of God.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

Come back, O Tigers!, to the woods again,
and let it not be leveled with the plain,
For without you, the axe will lay it low.
You, without it, forever homeless go.

Buddhism. Khuddaka Patha

And whosoever careth for one of the least of these, and giveth it to eat and drink in its need, the same doeth it unto me, and whoso willingly suffereth one of these to be in want, and defendeth it not when evilly entreated, suffereth the evil as done unto me; for as ye have done in this life, so shall it be done unto you in the life to come.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

They gave the sacrifice to the East,
the East said, "Give it to the West,"
the West said, "Give it to God,"
God said, "Give it to Earth, for Earth is senior."

African Traditional Religions. Idoma Prayer

The solid sky, the cloudy sky, the good sky, the straight sky.
The earth produces herbs. The herbs cause us to live. They cause long
life. They cause us to be happy.
The good life, may it prevail with the air. May it increase. May it be
straight to the end.
Sweet Medicine's earth is good. Sweet Medicine's earth is completed.
Sweet Medicine's earth follows the eternal ways. Sweet
Medicine's earth is washed and flows.

Native American Religions. Cheyenne Song
Blessed are they who keep this law, for God is manifested in all creatures. All creatures live in God, and God is hid in them.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

The cow and the bear shall feed;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The sucking child shall play over the hole of the asp,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
They shall not hurt or destroy
in all My holy mountain;
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.

I have to put five characters, at least, so here it is.

Druidus · Dec 22, 2004

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Judaism and Christianity. Bible

As a mother with her own life guards the life of her own child, let all- embracing thoughts for all that lives be thine.

Buddhism. Khuddaka Patha, Metta Sutta

Have benevolence towards all living beings.

Jainism. Tattvarthasutra
The Exalted One was entering Savatthi when he saw some youths ill-treating a snake with a stick. Then he uttered these verses of uplift,

Whoso wreaks injury with a rod
On creatures fain for happiness,
When the self hereafter he seeks happiness,
Not his, it may be, happiness to win.

Buddhism. Udana

At the openings of ant hills
Please have trustworthy men
Always put food and water,
Sugar and piles of grain.

Before and after taking food
Offer appropriate fare
To hungry ghosts, dogs,
Ants, birds, and so forth.

Buddhism. Nagarjuna, Precious Garland

"He that is wise, wins souls" (Proverbs 11.30). The rabbis said, "This refers to Noah, for in the Ark he fed and sustained the animals with much care. He gave to each animal its special food, and fed each at its proper period, some in the daytime and some at night. Thus he gave chopped straw to the camel, barley to the ***, vine tendrils to the elephant, and glass to the ostrich. So for twelve months he did not sleep by night or day, because all the time he was busy feeding the animals."

Judaism. Midrash, Tanhuma, Noah 15a
The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it.

Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Genesis

Never does a Muslim plant trees or cultivate land, and birds or men or beasts eat out of them, but that is a charity on his behalf.

Islam. Hadith of Muslim

For six years you shall sow your land and gather in its yield; but in the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave the wild beasts may eat. You shall do likewise with your vineyard, and with your olive orchard.

Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Exodus

A certain priest had been killed by the bite of a snake, and when they announced the matter to the Blessed One, he said, "Surely now, O priests, that priest never suffused the four royal families of snakes with his friendliness. For if that priest had suffused the four royal families of the snakes with his friendliness, that priest would not have been killed by the bite of a snake....

Creatures without feet have my love,
And likewise those that have two feet,
And those that have four feet I love,
And those, too, that have many feet.

May those without feet harm me not,
And those with two feet cause no hurt;
May those with four feet harm me not,
Nor those who many feet possess.

Let creatures all, all things that live,
All beings of whatever kind,
See nothing that will bode them ill!
May naught of evil come to them!"

Buddhism. Vinaya Pitaka
I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood, and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

The cows have come and brought us good fortune,
may they stay in the stall and be pleased with us;
may they live here, mothers of calves, many-colored,
and yield milk for Indra on many dawns....

They are not lost, nor do robbers injure them, nor
the unfriendly frighten, nor wish to assail them;
the master of cattle lives together long
with these, and worships the gods and offers gifts.

The charger, whirling up dust, does not reach them,
they never take their way to the slaughtering stool,
the cows of the worshipping man roam about
over the widespread pastures, free from all danger.

To me the cows are Bhaga, they are Indra,
they [their milk] are a portion of the first-poured Soma.
These that are cows are Indra, O people!
the Indra I long for with heart and spirit.

Ye cows, you fatten the emaciated,
and you make the unlovely look beautiful,
make our house happy, you with pleasant lowings,
your power is glorified in our assemblies.

Hinduism. Rig Veda

When you besiege a city for a long time, making war against it in order to take it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an axe against them; for you may eat of them, but you shall not cut them down. Are the trees in the field men that they should be besieged by you?

Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Deuteronomy

The destruction of vegetable growth is an offense requiring expiation.

Buddhism. Pacittiya

There is a type of man whose... aim everywhere is to spread mischief through the earth and destroy crops and cattle. But God loves not mischief.

Islam. Qur'an

Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai used to say, "If there be a plant in your hand when they say to you, 'Behold the Messiah!', go and plant the plant, and afterwards go out and greet him."

Judaism. Talmud

Rajah Koravya had a king banyan tree called Steadfast, and the shade of its widespread branches was cool and lovely. Its shelter broadened to twelve leagues.... None guarded its fruit, and none hurt another for its fruit. Now there came a man who ate his fill of fruit, broke down a branch, and went his way. Thought the spirit dwelling in that tree, "How amazing, how astonishing it is, that a man should be so evil as to break off a branch of the tree, after eating his fill. Suppose the tree were to bear no more fruit." And the tree bore no more fruit.

Buddhism. Anguttara Nikaya
A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.

Jainism. Sutrakritanga
Verily I say unto you, for this end have I come into the world, that I may put away all blood offerings and the eating of the flesh of the beasts and the birds that are slain by men.

Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve

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Again, my five characters...

No*s · Dec 22, 2004

Yes, though it may be restricted during a fast (which may vary if the priest decides so).

Linus · Dec 22, 2004

One Christian's answer:
Yes. I believe that is one of the points of Acts 10: 9-15:

9The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." 15And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."

God has allowed us to excersize our dominion over the animals in that we may eat them. I think it's clear.

Druidus · Dec 22, 2004

Oh, Linus?

Romans 14:21
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.

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Daniel 1:11-16
Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over him: "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their meat and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

Click to expand...

1. AND some of his disciples came and told him of a certain Egyptian, a son of Belial, who taught that it was lawful to torment animals, if their sufferings brought any profit to men.
2. And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, they who partake of benefits which are gotten by wronging one of God's creatures, cannot be righteous: nor can they touch holy things, or teach the mysteries of the kingdom, whose hands are stained With blood, or whose mouths are defiled with flesh.
3. God giveth the grains and the fruits of the earth for food: and for righteous man truly there is no other lawful sustenance for the body.
4. The robber who breaketh into the house made by man is guilty, but they who break into the house made by God, even of the least of these are the greater sinners. Wherefore I say unto all who desire to be my disciples, keep your hands from bloodshed and let no flesh meat enter your mouths, for God is just and bountiful, who ordaineth that man shall live by the fruits and seeds of the earth alone.
5. But if any animal suffer greatly, and if its life be a misery unto it. or if it be dangerous to you, release it from its life quickly, and with as little pain as you can, Send it forth in love and mercy, but torment it not, and God the Father-Mother will shew mercy unto you, as ye have shown mercy unto those given into your hands.
6. And whatsoever ye do unto the Cast of these my children, ye do it unto me. For I am in them and they are in me, Yea, I am in all creatures and all creatures are in me. In all their joys I rejoice, in all their afflictions I am afflicted. Wherefore I say unto you: Be ye kind one to another, and to all the creatures of God.
7. AND it came to pass the day after, that he came into a city called Nain; and many of his disciples went with him, and much people.
8. Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold there was a dead man carried out the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
9. And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not, thy son sleepeth. And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
10. And he that was esteemed dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother. And there came an awe upon all: and they glorified God, saying, A great prophet is risen up among us; and God hath visited his people.

Gospel of the Holy Twelve; Lection 38

The gospel of the Holy Twelve is the earliest writings of the Christian Chruch, written during and just after Jesus' life. This was before it could be warped by men.

Linus · Dec 22, 2004

Druidus,

I appreciate your imput, but I am struggling to see your point. I agree that it is better to eat fruit and vegetables rather than meet. This is a scientific fact. But nowhere does the New Testament outright condemn the eating of meat. It does not command us to eat meat, but it does recognize the fact that we are allowed to do so.

Romans 14:21
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.

This verse indeed does not outright condemn the eating of meat. It only says that one must not eat it if it causes another christian to stuble in his or her faith. At least that is the way I read it.

Daniel 1:11-16
Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over him: "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their meat and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

Again I think your interpretation is a bit off. Daniel is not condemning the eating of meat. As I said above, I agree that meat (and who knows what kind of meat was included in the "royal food" of a non-jewish king) is not as good for you as vegetables are, but this is not a condemnation of meat eating. This merely shows some of the the advantages of vegetarianism.

And as for this passage from the Gospel of the Holy Twelve, seeing as how I have never heard of it before, I will have to investigate it further. But even so, I find it hard to believe that God would condemn the eating of ALL meats just for the sake of avoiding harming the animal.

Jesus ate fish, the Israelites ate quale during the wandering s in the wilderness, and John the baptist ate locust. I think it's a little ridiculous to say that God condemned the eating of all meats. You have to cause harm to an animal in order to eat it. After all, Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the LORD.

Hope this helps clarify my position

fromthe heart · Dec 22, 2004

jewscout said:
since someone posted a similar question in an LDS-only thread i thought i'd open it up to everyone. Does your religion allow you to eat meat? Are there other dietary stipulations?

Just frubaled you for this post...I resoponded to the first post and was told 'just for LDS' I apologized which was removed from the same post because I guess I wasn't LDS...just wanted to say thanks!:woohoo:

Druidus · Dec 22, 2004

Here, Linus, is the text of the Gospel of the Holy Twelve. It contains mainly the life of Jesus, and not mainly his death, as in most of the bible.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/ght_table_of_contents.htm

Written in Aramaic, the text includes the complete life and teachings of Jesus. (Apparently)

"Fish" is another frequently mistranslated word in the Bible. Its reference is often not to the form of swimming life, but to the symbol by which early Christians could identify each other. It was a secret sign, needed in times of persecution, prior to official acceptance of Christianity as a state religion.

The sign of the fish was a mystical symbol and conversational password. Its name deriving from the Greek word for fish, "ichthus" Much later it was represented an acrostic, composed of leading letters of the Greek phrase, "Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter"-"Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour."

Frequent references to fish are intended as symbolic of The Christ and have nothing to do with the act of eating a dead fish. But the symbol of the fish did not meet with Roman approval. They preferred the sign of the cross, choosing to concentrate more on the death of Christ than on His brilliant life. Perhaps this is one reason only ten percent of His life record appears in the canonical scriptures. Most of His first thirty years has been omitted.

Jesus was a vegetarian
Now this is a touchy subject. Across the globe, there is a small handful of vegetarian Christians who assert that Jesus was a vegetarian. The bible, and other sources, seems to support this belief. Vegetarianism is not without precedent in the Christian, or even Catholic faiths: Many early church fathers were vegetarian, including St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Francis of Assisi.

Many Biblical scholars believe Jesus was a member of the Nazarene Essenes, a Jewish religious sect that followed a vegetarian diet and rejected animal sacrifices. This is possible when one looks at the Shroud of Turin, a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man, whom many believe to be Jesus. If Jesus was indeed a member of the Nazarene Essenes, he would also have taken the vow of a Nazarene, thus not cut his hair (Numbers 6:5). In the imprint found in the shroud of turin, there is a man with west-asian features (Nazareth is in west Asia), who has long hair, further supporting the claim Jesus was a member of the Nazarene Essenes.

Of course, there is no definite proof the Shroud of Turin is legitimate, so in order to prove Jesus was a Nazarene Essene, or a vegetarian, we need to look into the bible. Now Jesus was loved by some, and hated by others, and accused of blasphemy by the priests of his time. This was because he claimed to be the Jewish Messiah that was prophesized about in the TaNaKh (Jewish bible, or "old testament"). Lets take a look at the Old Testament description of the Messiah to come...
Note: For these scriptures, I will use the King James Translation, which I feel is more accurate.

Isaiah 7:14-15 (KJV)
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, so that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

First of all, it says God's sign of the Messiah will be a virgin giving birth to a son. Jesus was born of a virgin mother. It says his name shall be Immanuel, which means "God is with us". Jesus' real name was Yeshua, which means "God is salvation". The name "Immanuel" is meant to signify that this will be the Messiah, regardless of what his name is. At any rate, in verse 15, the pre-messianic prophesy of Jesus, it says he will eat butter and honey, so that he can know the difference between good and evil.

Now the question is, what does eating butter and honey have to do with knowing how to choose between good and evil. To answer this question, we must have an understanding of Jewish beliefs about dietary laws, and vegetarianism. Throughout history there has been many vegetarian jews. Even today, only India has more faith-based vegetarians than Israel. These vegetarian jews believed meat corrupted your soul. Eating meat was permitted by God, but so was drinking alcohol. Infact, just like alcohol, the bible teaches, meat makes you "stumble", or corrupts your heart. That is why Jesus, the Messiah, would eat butter and honey, instead of meat, so that his heart would not be corrupted. Before, during, and after Jesus' time Jews argued wether or not meat was good for people. Consider the 14th chapter of Romans...

Romans 14:21
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.

There were many vegetarian jews, so why not Jesus? Especially considering he was from Nazareth. Jesus is even called a Nazarene in Matthew 2:23. Want an example of another vegetarian Jew from the bible? How about the prophet Daniel.

The name Daniel means "God is my judge", showing how confident he was that his actions were righteous in the eyes of God. Well, Daniel also was a vegetarian. In the first chapter of the book of Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon has imprisoned Daniel. In verse 8, Daniel refused to defile himself by eating the meat being served to him in the prison. Some have said that this is because the meat was offered to Babylonian gods, but this is incorrect, as vegetables were also offered in the name of these same Gods. Daniel abstained from the meat offered because he was a vegetarian. He knew the benefits of such a diet. Consider the following verses...

Daniel 1:11-16
Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over him: "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their meat and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

It's pretty clear Daniel was a vegetarian. So why not Jesus? The prophesy in Isaiah 7:15 said he would eat butter and honey (rather than meat) to be able to know the difference between good and evil. If Jesus ate meat, then he does not fit the Messianic prophesy of the Jews. Nowhere in the bible does it ever mention Jesus eating meat. In the King James translation, there are a few verses that mention Jesus eating meat, but in those cases, meat is translated from the Greek word "Broma" which literally means "food". All other translations of those same exact verses do not use the word "meat", rather they say Jesus sat down and ate "food".

Nowhere does it say Jesus ate meat. Now, knowing that the bible never mentions him eating meat, and taking into account the fact that Jesus taught love and kindness, how hard is it to assume he might have been a vegetarian? Also, Jesus was against animal sacrifice. He quoted Hosea 6:6, saying "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." He quoted Hosea in Matthew 9:13, and Matthew 12:6-7. He did this in a challenge to the Pharisees. Could this have been a hint into him being a vegetarian?

Druidus · Dec 22, 2004

What about Fish?

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In the 14th chapter of Matthew (verses 13-21) Jesus takes his boat to a remote island. Thousands follow him there. Jesus tells his disciples to feed these people, but the tell him that they only have five loaves of bread and two fish (verse 17). Jesus gave thanks for the food, and it multiplied into enough to feed five thousand people. Now the question is, if Jesus was a vegetarian, why was he giving fish to his followers?

It should be noted that some scholars contend that the Greek word for "fish weed" (a dried seaweed) has been mistranslated in this story as "fish". It is certainly true that dried fishweed would be more likely in a basket with bread, and fishweed remains a popular food among Palestinian peasants like the people to whom Jesus was speaking. Also, in the beginning of the story (Matthew 14:13) it says Jesus got to this place by boat. These people were right by the sea. If they were out of fish, why not just go on a quick fishing expedition? Surely with 5,000 men present it would not be that hard to go fishing. With this in mind, it further supports the thought that fishweed was being used, not actual fish.

Also, when one considers that the disciples did not even think about trying to catch some fish, this helps explain Matthew 4:18-20, where Jesus gets his first disciples by telling some fishermen to give up their profession and follow him. Jesus even says to them "I will make you a fisher of men". Could this be Jesus was having them give up their barbaric line of work to do something more righteous? It may sound absurd, but it starts to make a little more sense when you take it in the same context as the story of feeding five thousand, where the disciples never even considered trying to catch some fish, despite being beside the sea. Why didn't they go fishing? Did Jesus teach it was wrong to eat fish?

Finally, there is the story of after the resurrection, in Luke 24:42-43, where Jesus eats some fish. This is an interesting story. Some scholars however, have stated that in this verse, the Greek word for fish is "ixous", which happens to be an acronym for the phrase "Jesus Christ Son of God Savior." Indeed, the fish is still a symbol of Christianity today. This argument could go on and on. I would not totally dismiss the concept of Jesus eating fish. Maybe it was possible. There are vegetarians who eat fish, they are called "pesco-vegetarians". Also, it should be noted that in the Catholic church you are not allowed to eat meat on Fridays, but you are still allowed to eat fish. Could this be the result of Jesus' pesco-vegetarian life-style?

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Five Characters.

fromthe heart · Dec 22, 2004

I eat meat...not a lot of it but I really like a good steak on the grill...I don't see any harm in eating meat if one choses to do so...anything in excess can be a sin so I don't overeat anything.

hugs jewscout

pensive · Dec 23, 2004

Druidus said:
Oh, Linus?
Quote:

Romans 14:21
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.

Can we try to keep these things in context? After all, I could go up towards the beginning of that chapter and quote another phrase:

Romans 14:2
One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

In the end, to truly understand what is being said, you need to read the entire passage. According to most, to get the full context, you need to read Romans 14:1-21 as a single train of thought.

One of the unfortunate side effects of adding chapter and verse numbers to the Bible was that it began to encourage people to read things without regard for context.

jewscout · Dec 23, 2004

Having eaten a non-kosher diet most of my life and now being kosher i think the two things i miss the most are pepperoni pizzas and southern BBQ **drools**

painted wolf · Dec 23, 2004

yup, but the key is to respect the animals and plants that give you life. No respect and bad things happin. Disease for instance. Whole tribes life and culture revolved around the animals that they depended on for food, tools, cloths, shelter and other things. (too many to list here)

wa:do

Druidus · Dec 23, 2004

yup, but the key is to respect the animals and plants that give you life. No respect and bad things happin. Disease for instance. Whole tribes life and culture revolved around the animals that they depended on for food, tools, cloths, shelter and other things. (too many to list here)

They did respect life. They were thousands of times more respectful then what is normal today though.

Really can you eat meat?

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