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Christ call to evangelize

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
IF..... !!! You ask, 'IF'........


Again, you ask, .... 'IF'.........


Some Christian groups and sects are closed, but even these can sometimes be seen to be going through the motions of evangelising. One group occasionally stands in a semi circle, each holding what looks like a bible, near Canterbury City Centre (England) and stares skywards as their leader/preacher mumbles communications which I can never hear. But they won't respond to anyone who speaks or asks questions. That's it........... they evangelised.

:)

Well, if I didn't say IF I'd probably be cited for facts. If I said in my opinion, people may cite me for not believing in their truth (and try to "educate me" in order to do so). So, hypothetical are cool. Not many people can answer as if it were an IF. It doesn't change their views. Why so?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Thanks. I was wondering, though if it were a hypothetical chance how would a christian fulfill his or her responsibility to evangelize without overstepping another person's right to believe as he or she will in a faith most appropriate for him.

I guess if this is so, showing love (would be?) the closest without necessarily needing to spread the word to those who will not benefit from it?


It really is a matter of presentation. There are those who are pushy when the Christian needs to know when the person they are speaking to is just plain turned off.

I remember when I shared Jesus with a stranger who said, "For me to want Jesus, I would have to have a need for him. I'm happy just the way I am". I simply said, "OK" and moved on. I knew that it wasn't the right time for him.

If you just love a person, with the love that only God can give and God's presence is there, the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

A 16 year old came to our service - pregnant, having another child and with an drug seller abusive person. She had already had a moment where she had the young man's gun that had two bullets. As she shared, "If this is life, I can kill my child with one bullet and use the other on myself and won't have to worry about the other child in my womb". It really was a moment where she could have just walked over the edge, so to speak. She was ready.

She gave her life to Jesus, went to our Bible University, is ended up with a job at Harris Corporation and exceeding all their expectations. She is now married.

Another young lady came in as a youth. For some reason, I welcomed her with a hug (I believe it was God ordained). She had experienced hugs before (with the intent of sexual advances) - but somehow she knew that this hug was without strings, without intent... a hug that expressed a God-like love. She used to go to high-school with a box-cutter in her braw just in case she had to have it out with a person. No one messed with her.

She gave her life to Jesus and now is my daughter-in-law.

So true love of God opens the door of peoples hearts. When the heart is open, they usually want to know what the difference is.

But preaching has its place. A man, Joaquin Caro, came in on Sunday morning with his family... drunk. He had determined to punch the preacher (me) because he had brain-washed his wife and children. As they dropped of the children, he said, "Well, my children are safe enough".

Never punched the preacher because love reached his heart and he gave his life to Jesus and experienced the power of a washed brain (just like I had my brain washed of stinking thinking )



Every moment is an opportunity. Every salesman knows that their efforts will sometimes be wasted. A "no" is not a "no", in their minds. It is just "You haven't got enough information to make a quality decision". But someone will say yes.

So words are still given (until some says "no" and turns away). But when words aren't received... love is the step of action.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?
jesus wasn't christian. every reference to his religion was as a jew. so if jesus was sending out missionaries, it wasn't to create a new religion.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Well, if I didn't say IF I'd probably be cited for facts. If I said in my opinion, people may cite me for not believing in their truth (and try to "educate me" in order to do so). So, hypothetical are cool. Not many people can answer as if it were an IF. It doesn't change their views. Why so?
Ha ha! If you would be 7' 6'' tall would you have more difficulty getting in and out of vehicles?

If the Earth had been bigger, would we have coped with gravity, or even been?

If I was rich, would I have a bigger home?

:D
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
jesus wasn't christian. every reference to his religion was as a jew. so if jesus was sending out missionaries, it wasn't to create a new religion.

Is there a barrier to evangelization to where there is no consequence if there was no one left to convert? How would one fulfill his duty as an evangelize if there were no one left to convert?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Ha ha! If you would be 7' 6'' tall would you have more difficulty getting in and out of vehicles?

If the Earth had been bigger, would we have coped with gravity, or even been?

If I was rich, would I have a bigger home?

:D

I'm pretty slow with jokes. Blame it on the brain. But you get my point?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Is there a barrier to evangelization to where there is no consequence if there was no one left to convert? How would one fulfill his duty as an evangelize if there were no one left to convert?
conversion to truth is not necessarily a conversion to christianity.

i don't think the question is practical in the sense that souls keep coming into existence.


however there is a point where no service to self souls will be allowed into this earth. the door will be closed but I would still think that the gospel would continued to be taught. to evangelize doesn't necessarily equate to converting to christianity but a conversion, or transformation, turning to the truth
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I'm pretty slow with jokes. Blame it on the brain. But you get my point?
Sadly, No.
The world's people have not all made up their minds nor ever will, and they will change their minds in any case.
So devoted evangelists will probably ignore your 'if'.
I wonder if you got my point?

I'm not an evangelist, other than for freedom. :)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It was not merely a call to do this work, but a command. It has a two fold purpose....

1) It is a message of salvation to those who respond to it positively. Like those in the first century, when they heard it from Jesus, they just knew in their hearts that it was the truth and they became his disciples. Those disciples were then instructed to make more disciples by offering that message to others. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:11-14) So it was never designed to convert the world, but rather to gather the "sheep" into one pen. Like Noah was instructed to gather righteous ones into the ark. He offered salvation to the people but they didn't listen. The only righteous people on earth at that time were Noah and his family.

2) The message itself acts as a warning to those who refuse it. Jesus said that his return would see the same kind of circumstances that were seen in Noah's day....a world filled with satanically influenced violence and immorality.

Noah had an assignment from God to save himself and his family when God determined to destroy that world of ungodly people. (Matthew 24:37-39) During all the time that Noah and his family worked to construct the ark (many decades) Noah preached to the people, only to be ridiculed and ignored. But no one could say that God did not warn them about what he was going to do.....this 'kook' had been rattling on about this 'end of the world' for decades and nothing had happened. No one was taking him seriously, so they did not feel as if anything would eventuate......until it did. But because it was God who closed the door of the ark, no one was able to gain access to the only place of safety.
The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah also felt like their lives would go on without an accounting for their gross immorality, but according to the apostle Peter, these two events "set a pattern" for "ungodly people" of "things to come". (2 Peter 2:5-6)

This is why I believe we need to study the Bible carefully.



When all the positive responders are gathered, it will be like the time God told Noah to enter the ark. The door of opportunity closed back then and it will also today, according to what JW's believe.
We are instructed to keep preaching until the end, giving as many as possible time to 'get on board' so to speak.

Because the message is two fold....it is accomplishing two things.....it is separating the "sheep from the goats" so that when Christ is manifest, both will know that the time has come.

One group will be rejoicing because they have waited so long for the wickedness in this world to end...and now it is coming to pass.

But the other group will be feeling much the same as those who ignored and ridiculed Noah all those thousands of years ago. They saw that everything Noah had told them was the truth, but they did not listen. There were no survivors except the ones on board the ark.

Peter again tells us what the "ark" is for us today....it isn't a vessel made to keep the water out, but a containment within that keeps the world out. It involves water, but in a different way.....it is our baptism, or rather what our baptism symbolizes.....it is our close and personal relationship with God, which like the ark, can take a long time to build. But once it is completed, it becomes the only place of safety.

1 Peter 3:18-21...
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."


It is not the act of baptism that saves a person, but what the baptism symbolizes, (a death and resurrection) going under the water as one person and being raised up another.....fully dedicated to God to do his will first in all aspects of life. Jesus set the pattern in his own baptism.

That is how I would explain the situation....

I guess a shorter question Deejee, as I'm thinking of it, how would you fulfill christ's command if there were no one left to evangelize to?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If you're able to see other people do find a new world without god, it would be hard to evangelize without some sort of force involved. Respecting other people is the key, but in this scenario, how far can you respect someone without defaulting to the need to evangelize them to salvation in your faith?

I think you completely misunderstand what it means to evangelize. It has nothing to do with forcing people to believe....no one can do that. It is someone who brings good news, according to the Bible....like Jesus who brought knowledge of God's Kingdom to those Jews who actually didn't reject him, just because their leaders did.

It's why the Christians took their message out to the people.....it was offered on a 'take it or leave it' basis because no one can come to Christ unless God invites them. (John 6:65) If God sees no response in the heart of the hearer, then no invitation will be offered. Its really that simple. You have to be the kind of person that God is looking for....He doesn't have to be the kind of God that you're looking for. See the difference? He sets the criteria.......we don't.

I know this is what you believe. My question is if this belief cannot be carried out, what do you do?

Because it is a command from Christ to offer the message...this is what we do. If people don't want to hear it, then that is up to them, but they can't ever say we didn't try......can they?

I guess a shorter question Deejee, as I'm thinking of it, how would you fulfill christ's command if there were no one left to evangelize to?

If there is 'no one left to evangelize to', then "the end" will come just as Jesus said it must. (Matthew 24:14) The "sheep" will have been "separated from the goats" and each will get what is coming to them. (Matthew 25:45-46)

This is not our planet, we are only the tenants here, and we have fouled up the owners property to the point where all life is now under threat from multiple directions......if you were the landlord, would you not evict the bad tenants, and carry out the necessary repairs for those who have already proven that they will take good care of your property?

All we have to do is prove to God what kind of tenants we are......are we happy to accept our tenancy under his terms....or do we only want it under our own terms?

That is how I view it.
 

Mitty

Active Member
It's why the Christians took their message out to the people.....it was offered on a 'take it or leave it' basis because no one can come to Christ unless God invites them. (John 6:65) If God sees no response in the heart of the hearer, then no invitation will be offered. Its really that simple. You have to be the kind of person that God is looking for....He doesn't have to be the kind of God that you're looking for. See the difference? He sets the criteria.......we don't.
But why do you need to evangelize if your god makes up it's mind anyway and picks and chooses who it is looking for?

Did anyone evangelize to Moses or Noah or Abraham or David, or did their gods just deal with them directly?
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If you're able to see other people do find a new world without god, it would be hard to evangelize without some sort of force involved. Respecting other people is the key, but in this scenario, how far can you respect someone without defaulting to the need to evangelize them to salvation in your faith?

I know this is what you believe. My question is if this belief cannot be carried out, what do you do?
In what sense do you mean if the belief cannot be carried out? At that point if I understand you correctly, God is the One to carry things out. Whatever His will is, that's what will happen. Which reminds me of Jesus prayer. "Let your will take place." A question might be, what are you looking forward to?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
But why do you need to evangelize if your god makes up it's mind anyway and picks and chooses who it is looking for?

Christ sent out his disciples to preach so no one would have an excuse not to respond...one way or the other. The preaching was to separate people into the believers and the unbelievers....the sheep and the goats.

Matthew 24:14....
"And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.".......ready or not.

Romans 10:11-15...
"For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

Did anyone evangelize to Moses or Noah or Abraham or David, or did their gods just deal with them directly?

Noah, Abraham, Moses and David were all worshippers of Jehovah.....They did not need anyone to tell them about God because they knew him personally.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In what sense do you mean if the belief cannot be carried out? At that point if I understand you correctly, God is the One to carry things out. Whatever His will is, that's what will happen. Which reminds me of Jesus prayer. "Let your will take place." A question might be, what are you looking forward to?

Yes. Was just wondering if there were no one to convert, would there be an action of some sort to continue evangalization. Letting god do it doesn't hurt anyone who will never believe in christ. It's not relevant to the non-christian of course, but it doesn't hurt either. Better sentiment than force.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes. Was just wondering if there were no one to convert, would there be an action of some sort to continue evangalization. Letting god do it doesn't hurt anyone who will never believe in christ. It's not relevant to the non-christian of course, but it doesn't hurt either. Better sentiment than force.
After the thousand year reign of Christ, opinions will be settled. I believe in a resurrection of the dead. That means that when a person who God decides to resurrect comes back to life, there will be the real decision from that person towards God. And God toward that person.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Christ sent out his disciples to preach so no one would have an excuse not to respond...one way or the other. The preaching was to separate people into the believers and the unbelievers....the sheep and the goats.

Matthew 24:14....
"And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.".......ready or not.

Romans 10:11-15...
"For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”



Noah, Abraham, Moses and David were all worshippers of Jehovah.....They did not need anyone to tell them about God because they knew him personally.

Does this benefit believers (scripture verse?) in the long run to those who you say choose not to follow a god they should ideally know exist or believe in?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
jesus wasn't christian. every reference to his religion was as a jew. so if jesus was sending out missionaries, it wasn't to create a new religion.
Things changed dramatically after Jesus died and was resurrected. Also, he said he gave them (his followers) a new commandment.
John 13:34 - “I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another."
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Things changed dramatically after Jesus died and was resurrected. Also, he said he gave them (his followers) a new commandment.
John 13:34 - “I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another."
It wasn't new. It was always the Law. It was known as the Law of One. You know it as the Golden Rule. Notice that is singular. Those opposed to it were called the sons of belial.

To those who were lost it would seem new but to those who were not, it was always the Law.

There is nothing new under the sun.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Does this benefit believers (scripture verse?) in the long run to those who you say choose not to follow a god they should ideally know exist or believe in?

Not exactly sure what you mean....but let me put it this way.....

John 17:3...
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."
This is Jesus speaking to his Father in heaven......the only way to gain everlasting life (the opposite to the finite life we have now) is to get to know God and to understand why he sent his son to this earth as our Redeemer. Without this knowledge and understanding, life is totally meaningless. Devoting ourselves to other gods or to other religious systems leads us nowhere.

There are only two roads......one leads to life, the other leads to death. The one leading to life is difficult...the other one is easy. (Matthew 7:13-14) Do you know when you're on the wrong road?...only when you hit the dead end.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9....
"This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength".

If we don't want to know this God or his son, then why should this God want to know us?
If we know about him, but fail to obey him, the outcome is the same. If we have no time or interest in him...why would he have time or interest in us?

The only thing God has ever asked of his human creation is to obey him.....its that simple, often not difficult at all....unless you want to disobey him and make up your own rules. But even when he tells us to do something difficult, like building an ark....he supplies us with everything we need to complete the task.

The "good news" concerns God's Kingdom, which will soon come and take over earth's rulership. (Daniel 2:44)
We either qualify to becomes citizens there because we want to...or we don't. For those who don't...there is no plan B. Life is conditional...and always has been.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
It wasn't new. It was always the Law. It was known as the Law of One. You know it as the Golden Rule. Notice that is singular. Those opposed to it were called the sons of belial.

To those who were lost it would seem new but to those who were not, it was always the Law.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Actually, it was a new commandment.....there was no law that required anyone to sacrifice their lives for someone else. This law of love went that far.

John 15:12-13...
"This is my commandment, that you love one another just as I have loved you. 13 No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends."

In our day, it would be like stepping in front of your friend to take a bullet for them.

As Jesus said in John 10:14-18....
"I am the fine shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my life in behalf of the sheep. . . . .
18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.”


Its an amazing rescue mission.....we are to love our brothers as Christ loved his.
 
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