Christ call to evangelize

Unveiled Artist · Sep 10, 2020

If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

Twilight Hue · Sep 10, 2020

Only if the job pays well. Ask Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyers, or Peter Popoff.

Nakosis · Sep 10, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

What is the good news?

Windwalker · Sep 10, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

As I recall from my early evangelizing efforts the church pushed us to do, they would say that after a couple of times or something, you can basically shake the dust off your feet at them, citing Mt. 10:14. But I think they only reserved that for those who were too smart for them. The rest they'd keep trying to convince, if they thought they had a chance. Never was it really about the other person in actually. It was about making converts, and stacking up a "soul-winner's crown" for themselves in heaven. Some narcissistic thing like that.

Unveiled Artist · Sep 10, 2020

Windwalker said:
As I recall from my early evangelizing efforts the church pushed us to do, they would say that after a couple of times or something, you can basically shake the dust off your feet at them, citing Mt. 10:14. But I think they only reserved that for those who were too smart for them. The rest they'd keep trying to convince, if they thought they had a chance. Never was it really about the other person in actually. It was about making converts, and stacking up a "soul-winner's crown" for themselves in heaven. Some narcissistic thing like that.

That's sad. Sounds counter productive on their part. Pushing people away by trying to bring them to christ.

Windwalker · Sep 10, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
That's sad. Sounds counter productive on their part. Pushing people away by trying to bring them to christ.

As long as you can please your base of fans, it doesn't matter who you drive away. Big Trump supporters, I'm sure. Like appreciates like. It really was narcissistic. Rack up notches in your bible belt. It was an odds game, like selling door to door vacuum cleaners. Gotta knock on enough doors. Irritate enough people, eventually you'll get that sinner to come to church with you.

Wow, I feel some personal remorse here. What an *** I was. But that was the gig. That was what we were supposed to do as part of being saved; read the bible every day, pray every day, fast, witnessing, church attendance, etc. Family loved me anyway, despite the **** from church I deposited in their laps. Their grace with me, played a big part in my walking away from that church.

Deeje · Sep 10, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

It was not merely a call to do this work, but a command. It has a two fold purpose....

1) It is a message of salvation to those who respond to it positively. Like those in the first century, when they heard it from Jesus, they just knew in their hearts that it was the truth and they became his disciples. Those disciples were then instructed to make more disciples by offering that message to others. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:11-14) So it was never designed to convert the world, but rather to gather the "sheep" into one pen. Like Noah was instructed to gather righteous ones into the ark. He offered salvation to the people but they didn't listen. The only righteous people on earth at that time were Noah and his family.

2) The message itself acts as a warning to those who refuse it. Jesus said that his return would see the same kind of circumstances that were seen in Noah's day....a world filled with satanically influenced violence and immorality.

Noah had an assignment from God to save himself and his family when God determined to destroy that world of ungodly people. (Matthew 24:37-39) During all the time that Noah and his family worked to construct the ark (many decades) Noah preached to the people, only to be ridiculed and ignored. But no one could say that God did not warn them about what he was going to do.....this 'kook' had been rattling on about this 'end of the world' for decades and nothing had happened. No one was taking him seriously, so they did not feel as if anything would eventuate......until it did. But because it was God who closed the door of the ark, no one was able to gain access to the only place of safety.
The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah also felt like their lives would go on without an accounting for their gross immorality, but according to the apostle Peter, these two events "set a pattern" for "ungodly people" of "things to come". (2 Peter 2:5-6)

This is why I believe we need to study the Bible carefully.

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

When all the positive responders are gathered, it will be like the time God told Noah to enter the ark. The door of opportunity closed back then and it will also today, according to what JW's believe.
We are instructed to keep preaching until the end, giving as many as possible time to 'get on board' so to speak.

Because the message is two fold....it is accomplishing two things.....it is separating the "sheep from the goats" so that when Christ is manifest, both will know that the time has come.

One group will be rejoicing because they have waited so long for the wickedness in this world to end...and now it is coming to pass.

But the other group will be feeling much the same as those who ignored and ridiculed Noah all those thousands of years ago. They saw that everything Noah had told them was the truth, but they did not listen. There were no survivors except the ones on board the ark.

Peter again tells us what the "ark" is for us today....it isn't a vessel made to keep the water out, but a containment within that keeps the world out. It involves water, but in a different way.....it is our baptism, or rather what our baptism symbolizes.....it is our close and personal relationship with God, which like the ark, can take a long time to build. But once it is completed, it becomes the only place of safety.

1 Peter 3:18-21...
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

It is not the act of baptism that saves a person, but what the baptism symbolizes, (a death and resurrection) going under the water as one person and being raised up another.....fully dedicated to God to do his will first in all aspects of life. Jesus set the pattern in his own baptism.

That is how I would explain the situation....

Mitty · Sep 10, 2020

Deeje said:
It was not merely a call to do this work, but a command. It has a two fold purpose....

1) It is a message of salvation to those who respond to it positively. Like those in the first century, when they heard it from Jesus, they just knew in their hearts that it was the truth and they became his disciples. Those disciples were then instructed to make more disciples by offering that message to others. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:11-14) So it was never designed to convert the world, but rather to gather the "sheep" into one pen. Like Noah was instructed to gather righteous ones into the ark. He offered salvation to the people but they didn't listen. The only righteous people on earth at that time were Noah and his family.

2) The message itself acts as a warning to those who refuse it. Jesus said that his return would see the same kind of circumstances that were seen in Noah's day....a world filled with satanically influenced violence and immorality.

Noah had an assignment from God to save himself and his family when God determined to destroy that world of ungodly people. (Matthew 24:37-39) During all the time that Noah and his family worked to construct the ark (many decades) Noah preached to the people, only to be ridiculed and ignored. But no one could say that God did not warn them about what he was going to do.....this 'kook' had been rattling on about this 'end of the world' for decades and nothing had happened. No one was taking him seriously, so they did not feel as if anything would eventuate......until it did. But because it was God who closed the door of the ark, no one was able to gain access to the only place of safety.

So why weren't most of Noah's family righteous, given that they all drowned since they were the only people alive then, including his grandparents and widowed mother and his aunts & uncles & cousins and his siblings and his other children & grandchildren born before and after Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 "years" old (Gen 5:26-32)?

The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah also felt like their lives would go on without an accounting for their gross immorality, but according to the apostle Peter, these two events "set a pattern" for "ungodly people" of "things to come". (2 Peter 2:5-6). This is why I believe we need to study the Bible carefully.

And why were Lot's son-in-law outside Lot's house, and is that why Lot mocked them and sexually assaulted their future wives after trying to pimp them (Gen 19)?

Unveiled Artist · Sep 10, 2020

Deeje said:
It was not merely a call to do this work, but a command. It has a two fold purpose....

1) It is a message of salvation to those who respond to it positively. Like those in the first century, when they heard it from Jesus, they just knew in their hearts that it was the truth and they became his disciples. Those disciples were then instructed to make more disciples by offering that message to others. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:11-14) So it was never designed to convert the world, but rather to gather the "sheep" into one pen. Like Noah was instructed to gather righteous ones into the ark. He offered salvation to the people but they didn't listen. The only righteous people on earth at that time were Noah and his family.

2) The message itself acts as a warning to those who refuse it. Jesus said that his return would see the same kind of circumstances that were seen in Noah's day....a world filled with satanically influenced violence and immorality.

Noah had an assignment from God to save himself and his family when God determined to destroy that world of ungodly people. (Matthew 24:37-39) During all the time that Noah and his family worked to construct the ark (many decades) Noah preached to the people, only to be ridiculed and ignored. But no one could say that God did not warn them about what he was going to do.....this 'kook' had been rattling on about this 'end of the world' for decades and nothing had happened. No one was taking him seriously, so they did not feel as if anything would eventuate......until it did. But because it was God who closed the door of the ark, no one was able to gain access to the only place of safety.
The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah also felt like their lives would go on without an accounting for their gross immorality, but according to the apostle Peter, these two events "set a pattern" for "ungodly people" of "things to come". (2 Peter 2:5-6)

This is why I believe we need to study the Bible carefully.

When all the positive responders are gathered, it will be like the time God told Noah to enter the ark. The door of opportunity closed back then and it will also today, according to what JW's believe.
We are instructed to keep preaching until the end, giving as many as possible time to 'get on board' so to speak.

Because the message is two fold....it is accomplishing two things.....it is separating the "sheep from the goats" so that when Christ is manifest, both will know that the time has come.

One group will be rejoicing because they have waited so long for the wickedness in this world to end...and now it is coming to pass.

But the other group will be feeling much the same as those who ignored and ridiculed Noah all those thousands of years ago. They saw that everything Noah had told them was the truth, but they did not listen. There were no survivors except the ones on board the ark.

Peter again tells us what the "ark" is for us today....it isn't a vessel made to keep the water out, but a containment within that keeps the world out. It involves water, but in a different way.....it is our baptism, or rather what our baptism symbolizes.....it is our close and personal relationship with God, which like the ark, can take a long time to build. But once it is completed, it becomes the only place of safety.

1 Peter 3:18-21...
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

It is not the act of baptism that saves a person, but what the baptism symbolizes, (a death and resurrection) going under the water as one person and being raised up another.....fully dedicated to God to do his will first in all aspects of life. Jesus set the pattern in his own baptism.

That is how I would explain the situation....

Hm.

Deeje said:
We are instructed to keep preaching until the end, giving as many as possible time to 'get on board' so to speak.

If not by force, then what do you do to those who find their spiritual path that's best for them?

How do you fulfill christ command if not by force (assuming the only people that are left are those who will not be christian)?

Brickjectivity · Sep 10, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

That is far from correct in my opinion. Christians aren't generally required to evangelize (or capable of it), and also the first commission (to preach everywhere) was fulfilled. (End of Mark 16 says so). Mark 16 indicated that the gospel was preached to all of the Jews throughout the diaspora, hence the commission (to preach the good news to them) was fulfilled. Then it was in their ballpark. After that some of them (such as Paul, Barnabas, Timothy etc) helped along those gentiles who wanted to join, because it became their business to do so. They went around explaining things to people who had no Jewish background, but they weren't just talking. They were living with the people. They were showing people their own lives. This idea of exhorting or proclaiming over the radio or droppings leaflets or speaking on a stage? Its not preaching. Its some kind of propaganda but isn't preaching.

As for those who will "Never be Christian." Its hard to explain coming from that statement. It is a backwards statement. Jesus makes a parable about the seeds falling onto different kinds of ground, and the ground represents various kinds of people. This is in opposition to (I suppose the prevailing view of his day) the view that only people reared in good families and with training are the right kind of ground, have the right stuff. What you're saying is that the sower can only throw the seeds in one place, and that is opposite of the teaching of Jesus. He grabs his twelve apostles from all of the least acceptable groups, and only one fails. In another parable he says people are like a wheat field sown both with wheat and a weed which imitates it, called a tare. He points out that nobody can tell the tares apart from the wheat until harvest. Therefore its incorrect to say "This group is Christian," and it is incorrect to say "This group has no Christians in it."

Kenny · Sep 10, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

I don't think there will ever be a place where are people who will never be Christians. The more sin abounds, the more people are looking for answers.

If we were at a place where it was either "shut up or die" - there would be those who simply die showing love and in doing so, another Saul would become a Paul.

Deeje · Sep 11, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If not by force, then what do you do to those who find their spiritual path that's best for them?

Finding a spiritual path is pointless unless that path leads to God....without God, there is no life.

According to Jesus there are just two paths to choose from....one leads to everlasting life...the other leads to everlasting death. (Matthew 7:13-14) The ones on the road to life will find it cramped and narrow because there are rules to follow.....the ones on the road to death find the going easy, because they can pretty much make up their own rules, but find out that the road is a dead end.

How do you fulfill christ command if not by force (assuming the only people that are left are those who will not be christian)?

No one is forced to do what God wants them to do, or to live where God wants them to live. We have to want what God is offering. Then we have to bring our lives into harmony with his will, and qualify for citizenship in his new world.
There are no other options. If we do not want to live that life, then we can choose the alternative, which is no life at all....there will be no other place to live......so God lets us choose.

If God were to allow dissenters and unbelievers to live in his new world, how would it be better than this one? :shrug:

Hockeycowboy · Sep 11, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
How do you fulfill christ command if not by force (assuming the only people that are left are those who will not be christian)?

That’s a big assumption!

oldbadger · Sep 11, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
If those who are not christian will never be christian, would you still evangelize as Christ said until they do or would there be a point you can no longer evangelize more cause no one will be christian?

IF..... !!! You ask, 'IF'........

How do you fulfill Christ's word if you found out no one else will be christian and ideally you would not push them to be such?

Again, you ask, .... 'IF'.........

According to Christ, is there a barrier or?

Some Christian groups and sects are closed, but even these can sometimes be seen to be going through the motions of evangelising. One group occasionally stands in a semi circle, each holding what looks like a bible, near Canterbury City Centre (England) and stares skywards as their leader/preacher mumbles communications which I can never hear. But they won't respond to anyone who speaks or asks questions. That's it........... they evangelised.

Deeje · Sep 11, 2020

Mitty said:
So why weren't most of Noah's family righteous, given that they all drowned since they were the only people alive then, including his grandparents and widowed mother and his aunts & uncles & cousins and his siblings and his other children & grandchildren born before and after Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 "years" old (Gen 5:26-32)?
And why were Lot's son-in-law outside Lot's house, and is that why Lot mocked them and sexually assaulted their future wives after trying to pimp them (Gen 19)?

I have no idea where you get these weird ideas but they have nothing to do with what the Bible says....it is just your warped interpretation. It says nothing about triplets, nor does it say that Noah's wife was 500 years old. It was Noah who had reached that age.....closer to the perfection of the original humans, their lifespan was much longer than it is now. God removed the water canopy to flood the earth so now that more radiation was reaching the earth's surface, the human lifespan dropped markedly after the flood. Humans would have aged more rapidly.
As for Lot's daughters.....who knows where you got that one. :facepalm:

If you are going to comment, at least have some idea of the accuracy concerning the topic under discussion.

The last time you tried this on, it was just as wrong as it is now.

Deeje · Sep 11, 2020

oldbadger said:
Some Christian groups and sects are closed, but even these can sometimes be seen to be going through the motions of evangelising. One group occasionally stands in a semi circle, each holding what looks like a bible, near Canterbury City Centre (England) and stares skywards as their leader/preacher mumbles communications which I can never hear. But they won't respond to anyone who speaks or asks questions. That's it........... they evangelised.

Oh dear...how far they have strayed from what Jesus told them to do....(Matthew 10:11-14)

"Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I help you unless I speak to you with a revelation or with knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 It is similar for lifeless things that make a sound, like a flute or harp. Unless they make a distinction in the notes, how can what is played on the flute or harp be understood? 8 If, for example, the trumpet makes an unclear sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are probably many kinds of languages in the world, and none is without meaning. 11 If then I do not know the meaning of a language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me."(1 Corinthians 14:6-11)

Mitty · Sep 11, 2020

Deeje said:
I have no idea where you get these weird ideas but they have nothing to do with what the Bible says....it is just your warped interpretation. It says nothing about triplets, nor does it say that Noah's wife was 500 years old.

So how old was Mrs Noah when she gave birth to triplets, given that Gen 5:32 says that Noah was 500 "years" old when his three surviving sons were born?
And where does Gen 5:32 say Noah's three surviving sons weren't all born when he was 500 "years" old if you claim that they weren't triplets?
And who were Noah's three surviving daughters-in-law? Were they his daughters or his nieces or his grand daughters?

It was Noah who had reached that age.....closer to the perfection of the original humans, their lifespan was much longer than it is now.

Nonsense. Obviously the "years" listed in Gen 5 were more easily observed lunar cycles of ~29 days and not solar cycles of 365 days and why a week is the approximate length of a Lunar quarter. Thus Adam and his genetically-identical partner also named Adam first became pregnant at ~12 years old and not a silly 130 years old (Gen 5:1-3), and Methusael was drowned at aged ~80 years old and not an absurd 969 years old (Gen 5:27), and Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged ~40 years old and not a ridiculous 500 years old (Gen 5:32).

If you actually believe otherwise, where does Gen 5 define how many days are in a Gen 5 "year"?

God removed the water canopy to flood the earth so now that more radiation was reaching the earth's surface, the human lifespan dropped markedly after the flood. Humans would have aged more rapidly.

Do you have any actual evidence to support your hypothesis that solar radiation caused genetic mutations and humans to dramatically evolve within the last 3,700 years or so, given that the bible says that the particular flood which drowned most of Noah's family and their animals was only 15 cubits high and drained away like every other similar flood before and since, and that the flood didn't affect a nearby olive tree growing outside the flooded area?

If you believe otherwise, can you explain why there are seven distinct bio-geographical zones, and why kangaroos and sloths are not native to the middle east as hypothesized from your fantasy flood story?

As for Lot's daughters.....who knows where you got that one.
If you are going to comment, at least have some idea of the accuracy concerning the topic under discussion.
The last time you tried this on, it was just as wrong as it is now.

Have you ever actually read that story, and are you familiar with male sexual physiology? If so, can you tell us how the future wives of Lot's sons-in-law managed to maintain the erection of their fully-drunken old father, and how did they make him ejaculate with brewer's droop on two occasions which coincided with their ovulations, and did they use electro-ejaculators and turkey basters to inseminate themselves, and how did they determine when they were ovulating?

Or did Lot tell lies to cover up his immorality from frequently sexually assaulting them and why they both consequently became pregnant?

Unveiled Artist · Sep 11, 2020

KenS said:
I don't think there will ever be a place where are people who will never be Christians. The more sin abounds, the more people are looking for answers.

If we were at a place where it was either "shut up or die" - there would be those who simply die showing love and in doing so, another Saul would become a Paul.

Thanks. I was wondering, though if it were a hypothetical chance how would a christian fulfill his or her responsibility to evangelize without overstepping another person's right to believe as he or she will in a faith most appropriate for him.

I guess if this is so, showing love (would be?) the closest without necessarily needing to spread the word to those who will not benefit from it?

Unveiled Artist · Sep 11, 2020

Deeje said:
Finding a spiritual path is pointless unless that path leads to God....without God, there is no life.

According to Jesus there are just two paths to choose from....one leads to everlasting life...the other leads to everlasting death. (Matthew 7:13-14) The ones on the road to life will find it cramped and narrow because there are rules to follow.....the ones on the road to death find the going easy, because they can pretty much make up their own rules, but find out that the road is a dead end.

No one is forced to do what God wants them to do, or to live where God wants them to live. We have to want what God is offering. Then we have to bring our lives into harmony with his will, and qualify for citizenship in his new world.
There are no other options. If we do not want to live that life, then we can choose the alternative, which is no life at all....there will be no other place to live......so God lets us choose.

If God were to allow dissenters and unbelievers to live in his new world, how would it be better than this one?

If you're able to see other people do find a new world without god, it would be hard to evangelize without some sort of force involved. Respecting other people is the key, but in this scenario, how far can you respect someone without defaulting to the need to evangelize them to salvation in your faith?

I know this is what you believe. My question is if this belief cannot be carried out, what do you do?

Unveiled Artist · Sep 11, 2020

Hockeycowboy said:
That’s a big assumption!

Yeah. It is. Doesn't invalidate the question, no?

Christ call to evangelize

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