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Is Police racism being mischaracterized?

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics. This is different from math and science, which is about reality. If you look at the police data, from the POV of a scientist, and not from the POV of a liberal artist writing a story, it appears that the racist claim against the police is not consistent with the data.

If the police were driven by pure racism, then black women would be attacked as much as black men. To be fully racist, skin color alone, according to the Democrats, regardless of sex and age would be the trigger. However, this is not the case. There appears to be no large police data set connected to police assault on black women of any age. On the other hand, there are way more white and latino men shot and beat up by police, than black women being shot or beat up. This is not racist, rather the data says sexist. Democrats are running a scam to hide the police sexism they have instituted.

If you recall, not too long ago, the Progressive tried to portray men as brutes, rapists and Neanderthals. This characterization appears to have permeated the leftist cities and created parallel police policies. Now after screwing things up, there is the cover up and distraction.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics. This is different from math and science, which is about reality. If you look at the police data, from the POV of a scientist, and not from the POV of a liberal artist writing a story, it appears that the racist claim against the police is not consistent with the data.

If the police were driven by pure racism, then black women would be attacked as much as black men. To be fully racist, skin color alone, according to the Democrats, regardless of sex and age would be the trigger. However, this is not the case. There appears to be no large police data set connected to police assault on black women of any age. On the other hand, there are way more white and latino men shot and beat up by police, than black women being shot or beat up. This is not racist, rather the data says sexist. Democrats are running a scam to hide the police sexism they have instituted.

If you recall, not too long ago, the Progressive tried to portray men as brutes, rapists and Neanderthals. This characterization appears to have permeated the leftist cities and created parallel police policies. Now after screwing things up, there is the cover up and distraction.
This whole BLM thing is mis-directed. Last time I searched
for statistics, 95% of the victims were men. And the movement
entirely ignores the greater number of white men murdered by
cops.
For example....

It's a much bigger problem than racism.
Note that Freddie Gray's killers included black cops.
The whole system is rotten through & through....
Recruitment, training, job conduct, departmental corruption, criminal
court corruption, civil court corruption, & media treatment of cops.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
This whole BLM thing is mis-directed. Last time I searched
for statistics, 95% of the victims were men. And the movement
entirely ignores the greater number of white men murdered by
cops.
For example....

It's a much bigger problem than racism.
Note that Freddie Gray's killers included black cops.
The whole system is rotten through & through....
Recruitment, training, job conduct, departmental corruption, criminal
court corruption, civil court corruption, & media treatment of cops.

Oh dear. My friend, I take it you’re white...? (And male)

Apologies ...not sure why I’m commenting here. I’ll work on my frustration.

Humbly
Hermit
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics. This is different from math and science, which is about reality. If you look at the police data, from the POV of a scientist, and not from the POV of a liberal artist writing a story, it appears that the racist claim against the police is not consistent with the data.

If the police were driven by pure racism, then black women would be attacked as much as black men. To be fully racist, skin color alone, according to the Democrats, regardless of sex and age would be the trigger. However, this is not the case. There appears to be no large police data set connected to police assault on black women of any age. On the other hand, there are way more white and latino men shot and beat up by police, than black women being shot or beat up. This is not racist, rather the data says sexist. Democrats are running a scam to hide the police sexism they have instituted.

If you recall, not too long ago, the Progressive tried to portray men as brutes, rapists and Neanderthals. This characterization appears to have permeated the leftist cities and created parallel police policies. Now after screwing things up, there is the cover up and distraction.

This whole BLM thing is mis-directed. Last time I searched
for statistics, 95% of the victims were men. And the movement
entirely ignores the greater number of white men murdered by
cops.
For example....

It's a much bigger problem than racism.
Note that Freddie Gray's killers included black cops.
The whole system is rotten through & through....
Recruitment, training, job conduct, departmental corruption, criminal
court corruption, civil court corruption, & media treatment of cops.
What both of you have missed is fear.

The OP is, to me, trying to talk around the truth. Racism is about ignorance and fear. We fear what we don’t understand, and for most, when we don’t understand something and fear that thing.....we destroy that thing.
Cops are not afraid of black (or any race) women. They are afraid of black men. Many white people admit to fearing a black man who gets on the elevator with them alone. Or when passing on the street, etc.... To be fair, many blacks report the same feeling when near whites.

As to @Revoltingest post. Truly, when I watched that video, I knew that man would be shot. The cop was acquitted and all experts in the field who reviewed the video agreed with the officer. All of them.
Even this recent shooting of a black man (still alive at the hospital) will likely be declared justified, even though it has already resulted in rioting with 2 more people shot. :(

In both situations the person is ordered by an armed officer with gun drawn, to not move. Do not reach anywhere I cannot see your hand. Yet both “victims” went out of their way to do exactly the opposite. The man in the hall reached to his right back hip, while the man outside, ignored the officer, walked away, opened the car door and reached in. *bang* bang*bang*.

The officers are trained (rightly so) to expect the other person to be reaching for a gun. Period.
So. Should they just let the person reach back and see if they produce a *BANG*.
Too late. The officer is dead and his 3 children will never see their father again, because some doped up ****head couldn’t follow a few simple commands and figured (correctly) that he could kill an officer before getting shot.
That’s what you’d like to see?
Both of these seem justifiable.

That said. Yes, much of police training needs to be overhauled. The weapons that they have available should be reviewed and much taken away. Yes, there are many examples on tape of excess police brutality and racism that is in no way justifiable.
But please never forget that these men and women in blue are faced with wartime combat situations wherein a split second means they die there and then. If they give you an order, like they did to the man in the hallway of @Revoltingest video, then they are fearing for their own life, and taking whatever actions are needed to be alive to see their own families at the end of that day.
Most of the officers who die each year are not ambushed, or in a SWAT situation. Many are just in the process of cuffing a suspect, more are pulling people over for drunk driving, or responding to a domestic violence call.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics. This is different from math and science, which is about reality.
Clearly, you do not have a liberal arts education. If you did, you would understand what one is.

A brief history of liberal arts education

During the era of classical antiquity, liberal arts was considered essential education for a free individual active in civic life. At the time, this would have entailed being able to participate in public debate, defend oneself and serve in court and on juries, and perform military service. At this time, liberal arts covered only three subjects: grammar, rhetoric and logic, collectively known as the trivium.

This was extended in medieval times to include four further subjects: arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy, named the quadrivium – so there were seven liberal arts subjects in the medieval liberal arts curriculum.

Considerably more difficult than the trivium, the quadrivium was used to prepare its students for the more serious study of philosophy and theology.

The aim of a liberal arts education was to produce a person who was virtuous and ethical, knowledgeable in many fields and highly articulate.

Modern liberal arts curriculums, however, allow students to study a much larger range of subjects, but they still retain the core aims of the traditional liberal arts curricula: to develop well-rounded individuals with general knowledge of a wide range of subjects and with mastery of a range of transferable skills.


What is liberal arts education today?

So, in a modern context, what is a liberal arts education? There are now many subjects that fall within the broad scope of the category; a typical liberal arts degree program is interdisciplinary, covering topics within the humanities, as well as social, natural and formal sciences. There are differences in the particular subjects included in liberal arts degree programs at different institutions. However, the liberal arts spectrum is generally accepted as covering the following fields:
  • Humanities – includes art, literature, linguistics, philosophy, religion, ethics, modern foreign languages, music, theater, speech, classical languages (Latin/Greek) etc.
  • Social sciences – includes history, psychology, law, sociology, politics, gender studies, anthropology, economics, geography, business informatics, etc.
  • Natural sciences – includes astronomy, biology, chemistry, physics, botany, archaeology, zoology, geology, Earth sciences, etc.
  • Formal sciences – includes mathematics, logic, statistics, etc.
Source: What is Liberal Arts Education?
Clearly, you have no idea of what you are talking about. You are flatly wrong. I can't respond to the rest of your post, since it's based upon this ignorance.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
As to @Revoltingest post. Truly, when I watched that video, I knew that man would be shot. The cop was acquitted and all experts in the field who reviewed the video agreed with the officer. All of them.
Even this recent shooting of a black man (still alive at the hospital) will likely be declared justified, even though it has already resulted in rioting with 2 more people shot. :(

In both situations the person is ordered by an armed officer with gun drawn, to not move. Do not reach anywhere I cannot see your hand. Yet both “victims” went out of their way to do exactly the opposite. The man in the hall reached to his right back hip, while the man outside, ignored the officer, walked away, opened the car door and reached in. *bang* bang*bang*.

The officers are trained (rightly so) to expect the other person to be reaching for a gun. Period.
So. Should they just let the person reach back and see if they produce a *BANG*.
Too late. The officer is dead and his 3 children will never see their father again, because some doped up ****head couldn’t follow a few simple commands and figured (correctly) that he could kill an officer before getting shot.
That’s what you’d like to see?
Both of these seem justifiable.
Watching the video of Shaver's execution, I see no sign
of his reaching for anything that could be a weapon.
Moreover, the cops yelling at him gave conflicting orders,
some of which required that he "move" to comply.
The shooter had emblazoned on his rifle 2 messages
which displayed intent to kill.
He wasn't convicted of anything, & soon retired on $2500/month for
"accidental disability". Only a cop can murder someone, & then
claim that he's the real victim, & entitled to generous government pay.
Shooting of Daniel Shaver - Wikipedia
We have a very corrupt system, from top to bottom.
That said. Yes, much of police training needs to be overhauled. The weapons that they have available should be reviewed and much taken away. Yes, there are many examples on tape of excess police brutality and racism that is in no way justifiable.
But please never forget that these men and women in blue are faced with wartime combat situations wherein a split second means they die there and then. If they give you an order, like they did to the man in the hallway of @Revoltingest video, then they are fearing for their own life, and taking whatever actions are needed to be alive to see their own families at the end of that day.
Most of the officers who die each year are not ambushed, or in a SWAT situation. Many are just in the process of cuffing a suspect, more are pulling people over for drunk driving, or responding to a domestic violence call.
It's odd that you justify the killing of Daniel Shaver.
The idea that cops should immediately riddle with bullets
(5 AR-15 rounds into Shaver) anyone who might possibly
have a gun is ridiculous. Being a cop isn't even in the
top 10 most dangerous jobs in Ameristan. Landscaping
(what I do for fun) is more dangerous than being a cop.
Ref...
These are the most dangerous jobs in America
Cops live in an environment of irrational fear of the public.
This leads them to be trigger happy, & this dangerous
attitude is supported by fellow cops & the courts.
 
Last edited:

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And the grandmothers, mothers, wives, and daughters of black men shot in the back or otherwise silenced by cops are not victims despite their loss and the general oppression of women of color?
Read carefully.
You'll discover that all people suffering death & abuse
by cops deserve justice. Not just the black victims.
OMG, the insensitivity and willful ignorance is infuriating.
You should stop doing that then.

I notice your expressed sympathy for grandmothers, mothers,
wives, & daughters of black men. None for grandfaters,
fathers, etc? None for white, asian, Amerindian, etc victims?
Cops & the "justice" system are a far far bigger problem than you think.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Watching the video of Shaver's execution, I see no sign
of his reaching for anything that could be a weapon.
Moreover, the cops yelling at him gave conflicting orders,
some of which required that he "move" to comply.
The shooter had emblazoned on his rifle 2 messages
which displayed intent to kill.
He wasn't convicted of anything, & soon retired on $2500/month for
"accidental disability". Only a cop can murder someone, & then
claim that he's the real victim, & entitled to generous government pay.
Shooting of Daniel Shaver - Wikipedia
We have a very corrupt system, from top to bottom.

It's odd that you justify the killing of Daniel Shaver.
The idea that cops should immediately riddle with bullets
(5 AR-15 rounds into Shaver) anyone who might possibly
have a gun is ridiculous. Being a cop isn't even in the
top 10 most dangerous jobs in Ameristan. Landscaping
(what I do for fun) is more dangerous than being a cop.
Ref...
These are the most dangerous jobs in America
Cops live in an environment of irrational fear of the public.
This leads them to be trigger happy, & this dangerous
attitude is supported by fellow cops & the courts.
having taken an OSHA course in college....
we heard the top of the line danger job was.....and might still be....

game warden

33% fatality rate
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics. This is different from math and science, which is about reality. If you look at the police data, from the POV of a scientist, and not from the POV of a liberal artist writing a story, it appears that the racist claim against the police is not consistent with the data.

If the police were driven by pure racism, then black women would be attacked as much as black men. To be fully racist, skin color alone, according to the Democrats, regardless of sex and age would be the trigger. However, this is not the case. There appears to be no large police data set connected to police assault on black women of any age. On the other hand, there are way more white and latino men shot and beat up by police, than black women being shot or beat up. This is not racist, rather the data says sexist. Democrats are running a scam to hide the police sexism they have instituted.

If you recall, not too long ago, the Progressive tried to portray men as brutes, rapists and Neanderthals. This characterization appears to have permeated the leftist cities and created parallel police policies. Now after screwing things up, there is the cover up and distraction.


These 15 Black Women Were Killed During Police Encounters. Their Lives Matter, Too | HuffPost
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
having taken an OSHA course in college....
we heard the top of the line danger job was.....and might still be....

game warden

33% fatality rate
This sounds familiar.
It's very difficult to believe.
If 33% per year died...
- They'd get no recruits.
- After 10 years, we'd be down to 1.7% of the original
game warden population (assuming none quit).
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics.
Sources please!

This is different from math and science, which is about reality.
Are you saying that there are no scientists and/or mathematicians who support Democrat politics?
What a joke.

If you look at the police data, from the POV of a scientist, and not from the POV of a liberal artist writing a story, it appears that the racist claim against the police is not consistent with the data.
Just a second. Are you suggesting that most any 'scientist' can sift truth from lies in police reports?
What you need is a hardened old defence investigator....... do those guys and gals ever drive trucks through some police statements and evidence!

If the police were driven by pure racism, .....
Stop you there! They ain't! They are driven by many characteristics, factors and situations.
What we're all waiting for from you is the fact that a large % of police have been exposed to the fears and worries about their jobs for too long without retraining, reviews, proper trauma counselling and some decent supervision.
I'll bet that as soon as new recruits get through induction training that their field trainers are UNDOING THE LOT with prejudiced muck such as 'Forget all that! This is the real World!'
You see? The police are not just driven by racism, although I'll bet that some are.
So that paragraph was a waste of time, eh?

If you recall, not too long ago, the Progressive tried to portray men as brutes, rapists and Neanderthals. This characterization appears to have permeated the leftist cities and created parallel police policies. Now after screwing things up, there is the cover up and distraction.
Sounds to me like you could be an Extreme Rightist, and your mention of 'Progressive' makes me think that you might be a fundamentalist Christian? Ah! An extreme Catholic maybe?


Look......... it's time to wake up about the introduction of proper police induction, training courses for field trainers, decent field training, good supervision, quality & regular trauma counselling, training reviews and more.

Go on...... go and spend some money on it.
And for the Lords sake don't support police forces who shoot people when it's not necessary, or in the back, or suffocate them, or truncheon them down.

Happy now?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
This whole BLM thing is mis-directed...
It's a much bigger problem than racism.
But BLM is helping to shine the light on all of this in a more focused way. Like it or not, whites in America are mostly too complacent to notice to any effective degree when other white people are killed by the cops... while (likely a majority of) black people are already primed to be enraged at these types of incidents due to the (obvious) discrimination they still see in nearly all avenues they take in life. So, if you want that reform you keep stating is necessary, you're going to need a vehicle. BLM is a vehicle... whereas otherwise what have you got that is getting any traction?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
But BLM is helping to shine the light on all of this in a more focused way.
I agree that they're doing good here.
Like it or not, whites in America are mostly too complacent to notice to any effective degree when other white people are killed by the cops... while (likely a majority of) black people are already primed to be enraged at these types of incidents due to the (obvious) discrimination they still see in nearly all avenues they take in life. So, if you want that reform you keep stating is necessary, you're going to need a vehicle. BLM is a vehicle... whereas otherwise what have you got that is getting any traction?
What little influence I have here & elsewhere,
I use to address the larger problem of policing
& the courts.
I'm rather ineffective, I know.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
The left is more about liberal arts, which is fiction and politics. This is different from math and science, which is about reality. If you look at the police data, from the POV of a scientist, and not from the POV of a liberal artist writing a story, it appears that the racist claim against the police is not consistent with the data.

If the police were driven by pure racism, then black women would be attacked as much as black men. To be fully racist, skin color alone, according to the Democrats, regardless of sex and age would be the trigger. However, this is not the case. There appears to be no large police data set connected to police assault on black women of any age. On the other hand, there are way more white and latino men shot and beat up by police, than black women being shot or beat up. This is not racist, rather the data says sexist. Democrats are running a scam to hide the police sexism they have instituted.

If you recall, not too long ago, the Progressive tried to portray men as brutes, rapists and Neanderthals. This characterization appears to have permeated the leftist cities and created parallel police policies. Now after screwing things up, there is the cover up and distraction.

Do straw men have a patron saint in catholicism?
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
having taken an OSHA course in college....
we heard the top of the line danger job was.....and might still be....

game warden

33% fatality rate
This sounds familiar.
It's very difficult to believe.
If 33% per year died...
- They'd get no recruits.
- After 10 years, we'd be down to 1.7% of the original
game warden population (assuming none quit).
That’s likely a lifetime fatlity rate. Closer to 1% per year per worker.

Here is one source....
Most dangerous jobs: Riskier workplaces part of these 25 professions

Of note is that the danger in all of these other jobs it is “slips and falls”, and “transportation accidents.”. Those are the #1 cause of fatalities. With cops the #1 killer is, violence from other humans.
All jobs get training (OSHA regulated training) in how to avoid the threats of the job. So people wear hemets, and drive safely, and use safety lines, etc.....
None of that will help a cop from getting shot by a random, enraged and/or drugged human being.

Watching the video of Shaver's execution, I see no sign
of his reaching for anything that could be a weapon.
Moreover, the cops yelling at him gave conflicting orders,
some of which required that he "move" to comply.
The shooter had emblazoned on his rifle 2 messages
which displayed intent to kill.
He wasn't convicted of anything, & soon retired on $2500/month for
"accidental disability". Only a cop can murder someone, & then
claim that he's the real victim, & entitled to generous government pay.
Shooting of Daniel Shaver - Wikipedia
We have a very corrupt system, from top to bottom.

It's odd that you justify the killing of Daniel Shaver.
The idea that cops should immediately riddle with bullets
(5 AR-15 rounds into Shaver) anyone who might possibly
have a gun is ridiculous. Being a cop isn't even in the
top 10 most dangerous jobs in Ameristan. Landscaping
(what I do for fun) is more dangerous than being a cop.
Ref...
These are the most dangerous jobs in America
Cops live in an environment of irrational fear of the public.
This leads them to be trigger happy, & this dangerous
attitude is supported by fellow cops & the courts.
Then your reflexes and eyesight are poor. I originally said that I knew he would get shot, because as I watched the video I noticed - Shaver was slow on the uptake about various commands the officers were yelling (I don’t know if it was panic and/or his >0.24 blood alcohol level....).
- Yes I saw how command one was “arms straight up”, followed by 2 “crawl on all four toward me”. But that is not what provoked the shooting, as....
- a moment before the trigger was pulled, while crawling on all 4’s toward the officer, for no discernable reason at all, Shaver most distinctly reaches back with his right hand, (which should have stayed on the ground,) upward, outward, and then backward toward his right hip. Of that there is no doubt. If anything the officer’s reflexes were slow, in that Shaver’s hand was coming back foward again when the shots were fired.

Don’t get me wrong. It is terrible and sad that this innocent man was killed by that officer, but the officer was acting as trained for his own and his colleague’s safety, in a hotel where the police had been summoned to respond to a rifle being stuck out of Shaver’s room window. (later it was found to be a pellet gun that Shaver used for pest control).

There are plenty of videos of unjustifiable shootings by police of black and white people, and every other color you can think of. Your choice of examples was one that a jury and the experts all agree was justified. :shrug:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That’s likely a lifetime fatlity rate. Closer to 1% per year per worker.

Here is one source....
Most dangerous jobs: Riskier workplaces part of these 25 professions

Of note is that the danger in all of these other jobs it is “slips and falls”, and “transportation accidents.”. Those are the #1 cause of fatalities. With cops the #1 killer is, violence from other humans.
All jobs get training (OSHA regulated training) in how to avoid the threats of the job. So people wear hemets, and drive safely, and use safety lines, etc.....
None of that will help a cop from getting shot by a random, enraged and/or drugged human being.


Then your refelxes and eyesight are poor. I originally said that I knew he would get shot, because as I watched the video I noticed - Shaver was slow on the uptake about various commands the officers were yelling (I don’t know if it was panic and/or his >0.24 blood alcohol level....).
- Yes I saw how command one was }arms straight up”, followed by 2 “crawl on all four toward me”. But that is not what provoked the shooting, as....
- a moment before the trigger was pulled, while crawling on all 4’s toward the officer, for no discernable reason at all, Shaver most distinctly reaches back with his right hand, (which should have stayed on the ground,) upward, outward, and then backward toward his right hip. Of that there is no doubt. If anything the officer’s reflexes were slow, in that Shaver’s hand was coming back foward again when the shots were fired.
Don’t get me wrong. It is terrible and sad that this innocent man was killed by that officer, but the officer was acting as trained for his own and his colleague’s safety, in a hotel where the police had been summoned to respond to a rifle being stuck out of Shaver’s room window. (later it was found to be a pellet gun that Shaver used for pest control).
I still find defense of the killing of Shaver indefensible.
That unarmed prone man posed no real threat.
The slogans on the killer's rifle & the conflicting
orders barked out rapid fire bespeak intent to kill.
This is consistent with the cop's record of abuse.
 
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