The Chosen: III.

John D. Brey said:

. . . Do you have any citation for that? It's very interesting in line with another study I'm doing making a distinction between the gender of blood versus water. Scripture seems to associate semen with water, which, ironically, is feminine, while blood is masculine.

In brit milah, the blood, symbolically, takes the place of semen. The true firstborn of prelapse Adam, who wasn't male, is conceived from the blood of circumcision in place of semen.



John

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Sure !

Best place to start, imo, is the ePSD

Sumerian: a [WATER] (2329x: ED IIIa, ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian, 1st millennium, unknown) wr. a "water; semen; progeny" Akkadian: mû; rihûtu

Harel13 said:

Sad, sad complete misunderstanding of the idea.

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Agreed.

Harel13 said:

I'm surprised the rabbi had any patience for you; it sounds like you view Judaism as some sort of investment in the stock market at best, or something that both purifies and defiles you at the same time at worst.
Thank you for sharing that wonderful story about lack of commitment; it's like those people at weddings who get up, toast the couple and say: "Hey, marriage isn't forever. If you ever change your mind, you can always back out and find a different spouse."

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In America the expression "Sour Grapes" comes to mind.

Harel13 said:

Sad, sad complete misunderstanding of the idea. You. Don't. Need. To. Be. Jewish. To. Be. Good. And I'll add another word: Ever. Being non-Jewish does not automatically deny you a spot in heaven. It doesn't make you evil. It's what you choose to do with your life, and you do not need to convert.

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The logic of your statement seems to make Jewish identity completely irrelevant so far as being good, or going to heaven, are concerned? So what, if anything, does Jewish identity affect for good or ill? What does a Jew's status as "chosen" signify since that's kinda the name of the thread.



John

John D. Brey said:

German identity means you're associated in some logical or rational way to the land of Germany. Jewish identity does not mean you're associated with the land of Palestine since not only are most modern Jews not really associated with Palestine, but, more importantly, Israel became a nation before they even possessed a national plot of land to relate to.John

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All Jews have a connection to the Promised Land, and to Jerusalem.

AJC Releases Arabic Video on Jewish Ties to Jerusalem

The following video is released by ARABS regarding the ties of Jews to Jerusalem.

IndigoChild5559 said:

All Jews have a connection to the Promised Land, and to Jerusalem.

AJC Releases Arabic Video on Jewish Ties to Jerusalem

The following video is released by ARABS regarding the ties of Jews to Jerusalem.

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Thank you. Very fun and interesting/informative video.



John

John D. Brey said:

This latter situation being the case, the fact that some element of the innate quality of the identity passes in utero means the innate-ness is biological, genetic; other wise you're mixing the first situation (where the identity is contrived in the heads of the in crowd) with the second situation where there's something innate about the identity.

A man with a black mother has a good chance of being black because of who his mother is. It's based on science. It's innate. But if black people said anyone woman could convert to being a black mother and then all of her maternal line for the rest of eternity will be black, regardless of their skin color, this strange state of affair would be akin to the Jewish description of Jewish identity.

My position is someone peculiar, like Jewish identity itself.

I'm in the enviable, and unenviable position of making logical sense of the weirdness of Jewish identity but having no one to explain it to since non-Jews are ambivalent about it and Jews, like yourself, claim they see nothing peculiar about the logic of their identity that would need to be explained.

Poor ole Casandra ain't got nuttin on me.

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Since according to Mishnah Parah, the menstrual blood (מי נדה) associated with parah adumah is cleaner than the waters of the typical mikveh, the mikveh God himself provides, when he himself becomes the waters of niddah, should have a mechanism, in scripture, and theology, for being cleaner (logically, theologically, and reasonably) than the waters of the typical mikveh. As fate and fortune would have it, the scripture provides precisely the logic, and theo-logic, for how the waters of God’s menstruation (perhaps Shekinhah’s menstruation) are cleaner than the waters of the typical mikveh.



John

Rabbi Kaplan's statement condenses a lot of what's been said in two recent threads. In a nutshell, so to say, circumcision is related to parah adumah by the fact that just as ha-adam is said to be created from the place of his atonement (Midrash Rabbah, Bere****h XIV, 8), so that when he actually requires salvation (after the first, or original, sin), it's already there since the menstrual blood מי נדה of the parah adumah, from whence he's created, is the means for rectifying his sin.

Similarly, the "nation" of Israel (rather than ha-adam, or an individual Jew) is created from the place of their atonement, the blood of the lamb placed on the doorposts at the night of their creation as a nation, which, that blood, according to the chazal, was mingled with the blood of circumcision. Like ha-adam, the "nation" of Israel is created from the place of their atonement, the blood of their atonement (lamb and limb), so that when they stumble, as ha-adam stumbled, they too will have been created already ready to rectify their sin (the golden calf).

Ironically, according to Jewish scripture, and no less a sage than Rashi, the parah adumah, i.e., the place of ha-adam's atonement/salvation, is the very waters of niddah מי נדה that cleans Israel from her first, or original sin. Ergo, there's a fundamental, symbiotic, relationship between the blood of the parah adumah, manufactured from its sacrifice, and the blood of circumcision, which, the latter, is mingled with the blood of the Passover lamb on the night of Israel's creation as a nation, which is, ironically, the night of their salvation too.

Naturally the relationship between the blood of the parah adumah, manufactured as the waters of niddah מי נדה, since they're used to cleanse Israel from her original sin, the golden calf, are related to the blood of circumcision, through which the individual Jew (rather than the nation) is created, and born, and or baptized to enter into his Jewish mission (Rabbi Hirsch). So we shant be too quick to be mixing, or combing bloods, if we were wont to note not just two blood relationships, the parah adumah, and circumcision blood, but three, parah adumah, circumcision blood, and the blood of the lamb; all of which are mixed or mingled (sometimes even mangled) throughout the text of the Tanakh.



John

John D. Brey said:

If Adam would have been worthy and would not have sinned, then all of his descendants would have been worthy of the Torah. If not for Adam's sin, all mankind would have had the status of Israel. . . To some degree, circumcision restored Abraham and his descendants to the status of Adam before his sin. . . The Israelites were thus totally sanctified to God, and became virtually a separate species.

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Handbook of Jewish Thought, p. 39, 47, 54.​

Rabbi Kaplan's statement condenses a lot of what's been said in two recent threads. In a nutshell, so to say, circumcision is related to parah adumah by the fact that just as ha-adam is said to be created from the place of his atonement (Midrash Rabbah, Bere****h XIV, 8), so that when he actually requires salvation (after the first, or original, sin), it's already there since the menstrual blood מי נדה of the parah adumah, from whence he's created, is the means for rectifying his sin.

Similarly, the "nation" of Israel (rather than ha-adam, or an individual Jew) is created from the place of their atonement, the blood of the lamb placed on the doorposts at the night of their creation as a nation, which, that blood, according to the chazal, was mingled with the blood of circumcision. Like ha-adam, the "nation" of Israel is created from the place of their atonement, the blood of their atonement (lamb and limb), so that when they stumble, as ha-adam stumbled, they too will have been created already ready to rectify their sin (the golden calf).

Ironically, according to Jewish scripture, and no less a sage than Rashi, the parah adumah, i.e., the place of ha-adam's atonement/salvation, is the very waters of niddah מי נדה that cleans Israel from her first, or original sin. Ergo, there's a fundamental, symbiotic, relationship between the blood of the parah adumah, manufactured from its sacrifice, and the blood of circumcision, which, the latter, is mingled with the blood of the Passover lamb on the night of Israel's creation as a nation, which is, ironically, the night of their salvation too.

Naturally the relationship between the blood of the parah adumah, manufactured as the waters of niddah מי נדה, since they're used to cleanse Israel from her original sin, the golden calf, are related to the blood of circumcision, through which the individual Jew (rather than the nation) is created, and born, and or baptized to enter into his Jewish mission (Rabbi Hirsch). So we shant be too quick to be mixing, or combing bloods, if we were wont to note not just two blood relationships, the parah adumah, and circumcision blood, but three, parah adumah, circumcision blood, and the blood of the lamb; all of which are mixed or mingled (sometimes even mangled) throughout the text of the Tanakh.

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As unlikely as it might seem, the statements above lend themselves to the topic at hand: the chosen חשן worn by the high priest כהנ גדו specifically to represent, symbolize, and emblematize, the nature of the nation of Israel's birth, creation, chosen-ness, and salvation. Ironically a thorough understanding of any one of the three bloods lends itself, though it must be returned, to the understanding of any of its blood-brothers.

Although ha-adam is created from the place of his atonement, the blood of the parah adumah, the atonement doesn't occur immediately. He's told he'll have to wait for a messianic-son who'll redeem the blood of the parah adumah in a manner that will pay for his ultimate, if untimely, salvation. Midrash Rabbah reveals that he's created from the place and substance of his atonement, but it doesn't add that that atonement will be eschatological.

The eschatological nature of the atonement/redemption is important since in the lapse of time between the sin and its atonement, the other two bloods enter into the flow of the word of God. First comes Abraham's circumcision blood, the blood of the limb, and then comes the blood of the lamb. The first of the two transforms Abraham into the first son of ha-adam directly associated with Jewish identity, and the second transforms the natural sons of Abraham, through Sarah, into the "nation" of Israel. And we shant pass over the relationship between the two bloods since they're codified by the fact that the Talmud and chazal tell us both are mingled on the doorposts on Passover.



John

The etymology of the "chosen חשן" comes from at least two words. It's an anagram from the letters of "nachash" נחש, which is related to nehushtan נחש–תן, Moses commander's rod, and it's related, phonetically, and etymologically, to the word "chosen חצן" spelled with a tsaddi צ rather than a shin ש.

The word "chosen חצן" is like a mezuzah into the very sanctuary of God's temple since it opens up the meaning of the high priest's "breastplate" חשן, so that we can see who or what is inside the "fold" behind the "setting stones" אבן מלים, which is to say it reveals the urim and thumim which, notwithstanding the light it puts out to all the world, has been an illuminated stumbling stone blinding the eyes of both houses of Israel to this very day. Though now, we can say, perhaps not tomorrow.



John

John D. Brey said:

The etymology of the "chosen חשן" comes from at least two words. It's an anagram from the letters of "nachash" נחש, which is related to nehushtan נחש–תן, Moses commander's rod, and it's related, phonetically, and etymologically, to the word "chosen חצן" spelled with a tsaddi צ rather than a shin ש.

The word "chosen חצן" is like a mezuzah into the very sanctuary of God's temple since it opens up the meaning of the high priest's "breastplate" חשן, so that we can see who or what is inside the "fold" behind the "setting stones" אבן מלים, which is to say it reveals the urim and thumim which, notwithstanding the light it puts out to all the world, has been an illuminated stumbling stone blinding the eyes of both houses of Israel to this very day. Though now, we can say, perhaps not tomorrow.

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The word "chosen חצן" means "bosom." And we know the chosen חשן is worn on the bosom, between the breasts, of the high priest כהן גדל. Which is like a mezuzah into the temple of Deutero-Isaiah since it could be stated that Isaiah chapter 49 is the chosen chapter so far as understanding the chosen חשן is concerned.

Verses 18-22, rescued from the lying pen of the Masoretes, say, in response to the plaintiff's cries:


The naked chosen חשן is an ornament of the chosen חצן: an ornament worn in the bosom חען of those who know the naked-identity of the litigant whose case against Israel is associated with the design and purpose of the chosen חשן, which, the high priest's ornament, is directly associated with the cause and the nature of the plaintiff's cries, i.e., the form of the perversion of justice that leads to the bloodshed effecting his cries.



John

John D. Brey said:

Israel became a nation before they even possessed a national plot of land to relate to.

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so....the nation .....favored by God?

is a nation without borders?

and you are allowed .....by God
to be a Jew anywhere on this earth

ok.....but that makes no allowance for territorial claim

and the Jews know this?

Thief said:

so....the nation .....favored by God?

is a nation without borders?

and you are allowed .....by God
to be a Jew anywhere on this earth

ok.....but that makes no allowance for territorial claim

and the Jews know this?

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. . . A territorial claim/promise comes with the original covenant to Abraham in Genesis 15. The Jewish sages (and I have Abarbanel in mind) remark on the oddity that when a strange new covenant is initiated in Genesis 17, no plot of land is mentioned.

Within the dictates of the first covenant to Abraham if his offspring mess up they will lose the land promise and be exiled to live among the dirty goyim. According to the language of the covenant their current exile implies they've broke the covenant.

But since the covenant in chapter 17 of Genesis makes no promise of land, an argument could be made that the current exile is related to that covenant, and is thus not proof Israel broke any covenant?



John

John D. Brey said:

. . . A territorial claim/promise comes with the original covenant to Abraham in Genesis 15. The Jewish sages (and I have Abarbanel in mind) remark on the oddity that when a strange new covenant is initiated in Genesis 17, no plot of land is mentioned.

Within the dictates of the first covenant to Abraham if his offspring mess up they will lose the land promise and be exiled to live among the dirty goyim. According to the language of the covenant their current exile implies they've broke the covenant.

But since the covenant in chapter 17 of Genesis makes no promise of land, an argument could be made that the current exile is related to that covenant, and is thus not proof Israel broke any covenant?



John

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you seem well versed.....

I seem to focus on the one item that sticks firmly in place....

the promised land
of which Moses was not allowed to enter

the land beyond the river Jordan
already occupied

was it really theirs to settle into?
was there not harsh feelings between the people already there
and the immigrants making claim.....GOD gave us this land

Thief said:

you seem well versed.....

I seem to focus on the one item that sticks firmly in place....

the promised land
of which Moses was not allowed to enter

the land beyond the river Jordan
already occupied

was it really theirs to settle into?
was there not harsh feelings between the people already there
and the immigrants making claim.....GOD gave us this land

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Douglas MacArthur said wars are fought over unprotected assets. Land is not a first come first served proposition. You have to defend what's yours. No people own any land unless they can protect it from others who want it. Which is why the USA has thousands of nukes.

Israel didn't just say God gave us this land will you please leave. They kicked their pagan behinds and took what they made their own.


John

John D. Brey said:

The word "chosen חצן" means "bosom." And we know the chosen חשן is worn on the bosom, between the breasts, of the high priest כהן גדל. Which is like a mezuzah into the temple of Deutero-Isaiah since it could be stated that Isaiah chapter 49 is the chosen chapter so far as understanding the chosen חשן is concerned.

Verses 18-22, rescued from the lying pen of the Masoretes, say, in response to the plaintiff's cries:

Lift up your eyes and look all around; all your sons gather and come to you. As surely as I live, declares the Lord, they will all wear you as ornaments. . . See I [too] have you attached to my commanders rod [papal ferula] by the palms of your hands [as the diadem of my royal rod (Isa. 62:3)] . . . [with it] I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples and their children will bring you in their bosom חצן, their daughters will wear you around their shoulders [like a bride wears her jewels on her wedding day (Isa. 61:10)].​

The naked chosen חשן is an ornament of the chosen חצן: an ornament worn in the bosom חען of those who know the naked-identity of the litigant whose case against Israel is associated with the design and purpose of the chosen חשן, which, the high priest's ornament, is directly associated with the cause and the nature of the plaintiff's cries, i.e., the form of the perversion of justice that leads to the bloodshed effecting his cries.

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As the chosen chapter of Deutero-Isaiah, so far as the ornamental chosen חשן is concerned, Isaiah 49 is grand central station for all messianic passages throughout the Tanakh. And the key to the passage of scripture that's key to all other messianic passages is the revelation that the personification of Zion is to be worn between the breasts of the priests of Zion as an ornament of glory.


The ornament worn by the high priest is called the chosen חשן. The etymology of the word comes from the fact that the ornament is worn between the breasts, i.e., in the "bosom," which, in Hebrew, is the word "chosen חצן (spelled with a tsaddi rather than a shin)." All twelve of the "setting stones" אבנ מלים are unique although some are translucent while others are opaque. As Rashi points out, the chosen חשן itself is constructed with a front piece (where the twelve stones are "set") and a back piece between which is placed the urim and tumim, which is a stone which emanates light under certain conditions.

When the urim and tumim emits its light, the setting stones which are translucent are lit up like a Christmas tree, or perhaps a menorah, forming the emblem of "salvation" Yeshua, associated with the personification of Zion manifest through the priestly-breastplate (the chosen חשן).

Since the "setting stones" are engraved with the names of the tribes of Israel, we read in Isaiah 49:3, "He said to me, You are my servant, Israel, through whom I will display my glory." And since Isaiah elsewhere clarifies that "Israel" is the name of the personage personified as Zion, such that the tribes adopt that as their surname, its fitting that the urim and tumim (light and perfection) is the singular Rock, or stone, or cornerstone, to whom God is speaking. And since the urim and tumim is inside the priest's-breastplate, this light of the world shines exclusively through the tribes of Israel until such a time as he leaves the fold, so to say, to reveal himself outside of the tribes, to the very ends of the earth:




John

John D. Brey said:

Douglas MacArthur said wars are fought over unprotected assets. Land is not a first come first served proposition. You have to defend what's yours. No people own any land unless they can protect it from others who want it. Which is why the USA has thousands of nukes.

Israel didn't just say God gave us this land will you please leave. They kicked their pagan behinds and took what they made their own.


John

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and the action is ....justified?

Thief said:

and the action is ....justified?

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. . . In my mind it is. ------But in the spirit of transparency I must confess that I'm just to the political right of Genghis Khan.



John

John D. Brey said:

. . . In my mind it is. ------But in the spirit of transparency I must confess that I'm just to the political right of Genghis Khan.



John

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allow me to flip a coin

most of this world seems to oppose any viewpoint that Jews are somehow .....'less'
and I agree
ill will toward Jewish faith and culture is not a good thing

but the same in return would be expected
the Jewish nation should not look down upon others of different faith and culture

Thief said:

allow me to flip a coin

most of this world seems to oppose any viewpoint that Jews are somehow .....'less'
and I agree
ill will toward Jewish faith and culture is not a good thing

but the same in return would be expected
the Jewish nation should not look down upon others of different faith and culture

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. . . But they are the chosen. Which is kind of the point of this thread. There are actually two priestly ornaments worn betwixt the breast, i.e., in the bosom, and two priesthoods chosen by God. Each priesthood is associated with their own ornament of glory, their own bosom-borne Jew-el-ry.

One of the ornaments, the chosen חשן, is shrouded in mystery even to those whose high priest wore it. The other hangs naked and obvious for all the world to see to the ends of the earth.



John

John D. Brey said:

They (the apostates) claimed the “setting stones" אבני מלים worn around the neck of the kohen gadol (i.e., adornment of God, the chosen חשן) were readily and easily glorified, by the builders of the emblem, but that when the stone from whence the "setting stones" אבני מלים had been quarried was transformed into flesh (Ezekiel11:19) they treated him as niddah, took him outside the gates, and had the wicked-est people on the face of the earth, the Romans, profane him.

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Isaiah 51:1-6 states that just as Abraham was one, but was quarried to produce his many natural-born sons, so too, the Lord, who is one, will become many. And the Torah will be the light that shines out of the urim and tumim (in the fold of the priest's breastplate, the chosen חשן) to light the way of the Gentiles. The Hebrew text of the passage says the Lord's "judgement" משפט, will become a light for the Gentiles. The word "judgment" משפט, is the very word associated with the chosen חשן, i.e., the "chosen of judgment" חשן המשפט, which Rashi states represents a perversion of justice, i.e., a false judgment, received by the plaintiff.
The urim and tumim are the tablets of the law, the Torah: "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light" (Proverbs 6:22); such that the "heart of stone" is the high priest's ornament with the urim and tumim (the tablets of the law) hidden inside the fold to produce the light that shines through the translucent stones in the chosen חשן. Rashi notes that the urim and tumim are the tetragrammaton, the very Name of God, Hashem. So by Rashi's own word, Hashem is the rock found in the folds of the chosen חשן from which the sons of Hashem will be quarried. The twelve stones engraved with the names of the tribes of Israel are quarried from the stone hidden inside the fold of the chosen חשן.



Unfortunately, . . . “if thou lift up thy tool [pen, engraver] upon it thou has polluted it” (Exodus 20:24-25). “The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, with a diamond point, engraved on the tablets of their heart” (Jeremiah 17:1).





John