Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Trailblazer said:

Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person.

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Jesus does identify Himself as the Son of Man in various Gospel passages.
eg. Luke 9:22 “The Son of Man must suffer many things,” He said. “He must be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Jesus seems to have used the title "Son of Man" to draw attention to the fact that He was human and to draw attention to a specific OT passage where the Messiah is also called "son of man". Dan 7:13,14

Trailblazer said:

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

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Jesus did not say "I will come AS the glory of my Father",,,,,,,,,,,,,something Baha'u'llah claims to be.

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Trailblazer said:

Moreover, not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished in the world and He was no more in the world.

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John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Trailblazer said:

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

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Since Jesus did plainly say (John 14:3) that He was going to return, the quotes you have given above combined with John 14:3 do not mean that Jesus would not return. They have to mean that Jesus was just about to finish His work on earth and was leaving BUT WOULD RETURN one day.

Trailblazer said:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person.

How do you write in 3rd person?

Third person refers to people “on the outside.” You either write about someone by name or use third person pronouns. Third person pronouns include: he, she, it; his, her, its; him, her, it; himself, herself, itself; they; them; their; themselves.
6 Ways to Write in Third Person - wikiHow

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

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Moreover, not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished in the world and He was no more in the world.

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

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the term son of man was used long before Jesus' arrival on the scene. it refers to mankind in general. son of man, or son of adam


SON OF MAN - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Trailblazer said:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person.

How do you write in 3rd person?

Third person refers to people “on the outside.” You either write about someone by name or use third person pronouns. Third person pronouns include: he, she, it; his, her, its; him, her, it; himself, herself, itself; they; them; their; themselves.
6 Ways to Write in Third Person - wikiHow

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Moreover, not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished in the world and He was no more in the world.

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

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Another passage that proves that it was Jesus who ascended as the Son of Man and comes back again is Acts 1:10,11.

'And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven'.

Trailblazer said:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person.

How do you write in 3rd person?

Third person refers to people “on the outside.” You either write about someone by name or use third person pronouns. Third person pronouns include: he, she, it; his, her, its; him, her, it; himself, herself, itself; they; them; their; themselves.
6 Ways to Write in Third Person - wikiHow

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Moreover, not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished in the world and He was no more in the world.

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

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I'm not sure that perspective is all encompassing especially since there are many literary styles including third person.

However, as far as the son of man is concerned, it appears that you did not see those versus that confirm that Jesus said he was the Son of man:

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Matthew 11:19 (referencing Jesus) The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

Thus, every time Jesus mentions one of His titles, He is still referencing himself and thus He is coming again.

Trailblazer said:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person.

How do you write in 3rd person?

Third person refers to people “on the outside.” You either write about someone by name or use third person pronouns. Third person pronouns include: he, she, it; his, her, its; him, her, it; himself, herself, itself; they; them; their; themselves.
6 Ways to Write in Third Person - wikiHow

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Moreover, not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished in the world and He was no more in the world.

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

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But we have to consider the references to the OT prophecies also, Jesus is referring to Himself via Daniel 9 and etc.

He will return and you will see Him no more in a weak body of death but in a glorified body.

Brian2 said:

Jesus is not the Ancient of Days as in Dan 7 but is Baha'u'llah the "Ancient of Days" or the "one like a son of man"?
He seems to be both in the teachings of Baha'u'llah because one of his titles is the Ancient of Days and he also seems to want to be the one like the son of man who is given the Kingdom.

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That is a good observation. Shoghi Effendi compiled a book called 'God Passes By' and in that book it shows us what attributes that were prophecy for this day and have now unfolded in the Message given by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Shoghi Effendi wrote about Baha'u'llah in this way;

"... To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the "Everlasting Father," the "Lord of Hosts" come down "with ten thousands of saints"; to Christendom Christ returned "in the glory of the Father," to Shí'ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the "Spirit of God" (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha... "

Shoghi Effendi goes into great detail and if you wish to read at this link, the attributes attributed to Baha'u'llah start on the top of page 94. The link starts at page 91.

Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, pgs. 91-95

If you choose to read that link, you will understand how many prophecies a Baha'i sees Baha'u'llah has fulfilled.

All the best, Regards Tony

Brian2 said:

Jesus is not the Ancient of Days as in Dan 7 but is Baha'u'llah the "Ancient of Days" or the "one like a son of man"?
He seems to be both in the teachings of Baha'u'llah because one of his titles is the Ancient of Days and he also seems to want to be the one like the son of man who is given the Kingdom.

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The way I see it at this time is that the 'Ancient of Days' is God in all the Manifestations from the Beginning to the End, the Alpha and Omega.

I see Shoghi Effendi uses the 'Ancient Beauty' to desceibe Baha’u’llah. I see that may be because Baha'u'llah is the subject of all past prophecy for the end of ages, thus the Ancient Beauty. Shoghi Effendi also says the Messengers to come, for the next 500,000 years, will be under the shadow of the Ancient Beauty.

Regards Tony

Trailblazer said:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person.

How do you write in 3rd person?

Third person refers to people “on the outside.” You either write about someone by name or use third person pronouns. Third person pronouns include: he, she, it; his, her, its; him, her, it; himself, herself, itself; they; them; their; themselves.
6 Ways to Write in Third Person - wikiHow

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and then Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Moreover, not once in the entire New Testament did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth. Rather, Jesus said His work was finished in the world and He was no more in the world.

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Click to expand...

The phrase “ben Adam” is not necessarily the title Son of Man. It may be no more than a simple descriptive phrase meaning merely “a human,” and so here “someone like a human.”

Trailblazer said:

...Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven, but did anyone ever wonder why Jesus did not say “and then shall they see me coming in the clouds of heaven?” Jesus always referred to the Son of man in the third person....

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Jesus speaks in many places about “son of man”, for example that son of man will be risen from death and many other things that fit to Jesus. That is why I think it is about him in every case.

Aupmanyav said:

Bahai cooking. People walk on water but no one comes on clouds of heaven.

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understanding what clouds mean is not that difficult.
can you see through clouds ?? no , the clouds hide what's in them or even what's on the other side of the clouds. to come with the clouds on the clouds or in the clouds illustrates that the return of Jesus would be un-seen .

Brian2 said:

I don't remember anywhere Jesus says the world would behold him no longer as a human.

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John 14:15-21.....
“If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. 18 I will not leave you bereaved. I am coming to you. 19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in union with my Father and you are in union with me and I am in union with you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. In turn, whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will clearly show myself to him.”

In promising the holy spirit to be the “helper” for his disciples, Jesus was leaving them in the flesh, but the “helper” would take over in his physical absence. God’s spirit would then guide and direct them through the difficult times to follow.

He went on to say....
“I have spoken these things to you while I am still with you. 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. 27 I leave you peace; I give you my peace. I do not give it to you the way that the world gives it. Do not let your hearts be troubled nor let them shrink out of fear. 28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. 29 So now I have told you before it occurs, so that you may believe when it does occur. 30 I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me.”

Since Jesus was raised in the spirit, (1 Peter 2:18) he had sacrificed his flesh for mankind and would never need to be a human again. His return was to take his ‘elect’ to heaven, by resurrecting them. Because those resurrected would also be raised as spirits, the world would not see them or Jesus, but they would see each other.

Deeje said:

Jesus said that the world would behold him no longer as a human.....he would never have to come in human form again.

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I fully agree.

νεφελη nephele - cloud

From:

νεφος nephos - cloud, figuratively- a large dense multitude, a throng ( of people )

LightofTruth said:

Here is another occasion when Jesus seems to be speaking in the third person:

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Most translations have Jesus saying "he" or "him" instead of "me" when referring to himself. He also refers to himself as "your son" And in verse three(3), instead of saying "and ME whom you have sent" he says "and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent"
This passage seems to have Jesus speaking in the third person.

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That is true because everything in the NT is not the exact words of Jesus; many verses are about Jesus.
But Imo when the same verse has both first and third person that indicates it is Jesus referring to another person. For example:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

There is also an and after the colon, separating the two thoughts.

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and Jesus says “also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Brian2 said:

Jesus does identify Himself as the Son of Man in various Gospel passages.
eg. Luke 9:22 “The Son of Man must suffer many things,” He said. “He must be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Jesus seems to have used the title "Son of Man" to draw attention to the fact that He was human and to draw attention to a specific OT passage where the Messiah is also called "son of man". Dan 7:13,14

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The title ‘Son of man’ is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented, but it does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah. And please note it says one like the Son of man. That means the Messiah cannot be Jesus if Jesus was the Son of man. Baha'u'llah was one like the Son of man.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Brian2 said:

Jesus did not say "I will come AS the glory of my Father",,,,,,,,,,,,,something Baha'u'llah claims to be.

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That's right, and good catch. The more I read the Bible the more I am sure that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be.

Note that the following verses say that the Son of man will come in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Brian2 said:

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Since Jesus did plainly say (John 14:3) that He was going to return, the quotes you have given above combined with John 14:3 do not mean that Jesus would not return. They have to mean that Jesus was just about to finish His work on earth and was leaving BUT WOULD RETURN one day.

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You still have to contend with this verse in a later chapter which was right before Jesus was to leave this world.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

I will come back is not Jesus saying He will come back to earth again.

Jesus said the world would not see Him again and He would be no more in the world, so the same Jesus in the same body Jesus will never come back to the world unless (1) Jesus lied or (2) the NT is in error. If Jesus lied then we cannot trust anything else Jesus said, and if the NT is in error then we cannot trust anything else that is written in the NT. There is no way around this.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

That indicates that come back refers to His Spirit coming back again, NOT His body.
The way His Spirit came back was in the Person of Baha'u'llah.

Fool said:

the term son of man was used long before Jesus' arrival on the scene. it refers to mankind in general. son of man, or son of adam

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I believe that the title ‘Son of man’ is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented, but it does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah. It is a Baha’i teaching that the title applies to both Jesus and Baha’u’llah.

Yes, I know son of man also appears in the OT, long before Jesus arrival.

Redemptionsong said:

Another passage that proves that it was Jesus who ascended as the Son of Man and comes back again is Acts 1:10,11.

'And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven'.

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Acts 1:10-11 does not prove that.

The disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

I believe that it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human being. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. I believe that Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

cataway said:

To come with the clouds on the clouds or in the clouds illustrates that the return of Jesus would be un-seen.

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You mean he would come and go back without being seen. He is always welcome. Actually, people have been waiting for him to return since the first half of the first Century. No one ever indicated when it would be the 'End of Time'. Bahais believe that Bab was the returning Jesus. Ahmadiyyas believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the returning Jesus. Here is the list of people who have claimed to be the returning Jesus: List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

KenS said:

I'm not sure that perspective is all encompassing especially since there are many literary styles including third person.

However, as far as the son of man is concerned, it appears that you did not see those versus that confirm that Jesus said he was the Son of man:

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Matthew 11:19 (referencing Jesus) The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

Thus, every time Jesus mentions one of His titles, He is still referencing himself and thus He is coming again.

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The title ‘Son of man’ is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented, but it does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah.

Those verses you cited above do refer to Jesus as the Son of man. That is apparent from the context, but the verses below are not Jesus referring to Himself as the Son of man, as it is clear from the context that Jesus is referring to another man.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

This maybe changing the subject:

And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls. (Joel 2:28-32)

Because these prophecies were not fulfilled literarily at the first advent of Christ, i.e. the sun did not turn into darkness and the moon into blood and no fires and pillars of smoke were observed, the popular Christian belief assigns the literal fulfillment of these signs are related to the second coming of Christ. But it is evident that these signs are related to the first coming of Christ, as it is confirmed by Peter in the Book of Acts that Joel’s prophecies have been fulfilled in Jesus during the first advent.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Luke, “The Acts of the Apostles - πράξεις των αποστόλων” , 2:16

Don't take the signs of God literally.