Does it make sense for humans to judge God?

Admittedly, I judge God, but I know it is not my place to judge God. I also know it is irrational and illogical for humans to judge God, since I believe God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, so God has to know what He is doing. If God is also Benevolent, then the suffering has to be on our best interest, but this is what I have a problem with, because it does not make logical sense to me that a Benevolent God would create a world in which He knew there would be so much suffering.

I judge God for creating a world that is a storehouse of suffering, and because some people suffer so much more than others. Some people hardly suffer at all, and I do not consider that fair. I am talking about people who suffer through no fault of their own, not people who suffer because of bad decisions they make.

As believers we are told that we will “know more” about why we had to suffer after we die, but what good does that do us now? Not only that, but God has kept the nature of the afterlife a compete secret.

“As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346

Yet we are supposed to suffer through this life and have faith that the suffering has a purpose and that we will be “better off” after we die because we suffered. That just does not seem fair to me.

Trailblazer said:

Admittedly, I judge God, but I know it is not my place to judge God. I also know it is irrational and illogical for humans to judge God, since I believe God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, so God has to know what He is doing. If God is also Benevolent, then the suffering has to be on our best interest, but this is what I have a problem with, because it does not make logical sense to me that a Benevolent God would create a world in which He knew there would be so much suffering.

I judge God for creating a world that is a storehouse of suffering, and because some people suffer so much more than others. Some people hardly suffer at all, and I do not consider that fair. I am talking about people who suffer through no fault of their own, not people who suffer because of bad decisions they make.

As believers we are told that we will “know more” about why we had to suffer after we die, but what good does that do us now? Not only that, but God has kept the nature of the afterlife a compete secret.

“As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346

Yet we are supposed to suffer through this life and have faith that the suffering has a purpose and that we will be “better off” after we die because we suffered. That just does not seem fair to me.

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You seem to love the concept of God and of creating a world of justice and peace, and that like is probably connected to your dislike of the unfairness of sickness, of poverty and of loneliness. You have these two things which seem opposed, like matter and antimatter. The unfairness doesn't see like it can coexist with justice.

answering the title directly......yes
it does

if you don't pay attention to what you follow
how then to follow as you should?

somewhere between you and your God.....there is a line drawn
that line defines Him as God
and you.....somewhere close

without a proper sense of judgement
how then to be close to your God?

I have an arrangement with God.
I don't judge him, & he doesn't judge me.

Brickjectivity said:

You seem to love the concept of God and of creating a world of justice and peace, and that like is probably connected to your dislike of the unfairness of sickness, of poverty and of loneliness. You have these two things which seem opposed, like matter and antimatter. The unfairness doesn't see like it can coexist with justice.

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Here's the thing... I do not believe that God is going to create a world of justice and peace, I believe humans will build that world. The unfairness of sickness, of poverty and of loneliness is partly because of human actions, but not all of it is because of human actions because not all sickness, of poverty and of loneliness is the result of human free will decisions.

The bottom line for me is that God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering so God is responsible for His Creation. Is not a builder responsible for the building He builds?

What I do not think can coexist is a Loving God when there is so much suffering in the world.

Trailblazer said:

Yet we are supposed to suffer through this life and have faith that the suffering has a purpose and that we will be “better off” after we die because we suffered. That just does not seem fair to me.

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You have probably told me, but might have forgotten.

If God created the Earth and everything one it. And humans didn't exists from the very beginning, I don't recall you believing that, but correct me if im wrong. So for a very long period of time in Earth history, animals of various types have suffered for one reason or another, like getting eaten, disease etc. Just as many humans experience.... now why do you think that God need animals to suffer, even before humans existed?

Revoltingest said:

I have an arrangement with God.
I don't judge him, & he doesn't judge me.

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I like that arrangement. I sure wish I could abide by it.

Nimos said:

You have probably told me, but might have forgotten.

If God created the Earth and everything one it. And humans didn't exists from the very beginning, I don't recall you believing that, but correct me if im wrong. So for a very long period of time in Earth history, animals of various types have suffered for one reason or another, like getting eaten, disease etc. Just as many humans experience.... now why do you think that God need animals to suffer, even before humans existed?

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Long time no see, but I was meaning to get back to you as soon as my suffering became manageable.
But here I am talking about suffering again because my husband got tired of hearing me ranking on God.

For me the question is not why I think that God needed animals to suffer, even before humans existed, the question for me is why God allows animals to suffer at all... Nobody can use the original sin argument for this, as animals have no sin, they are completely innocent.

God so loved the world that He created it and then allowed humans and animals to suffer.
Then God sent His only Son to bail us sinful humans out, right?
But how does that help the animals?
The Christians will have no answer, neither will the Baha'is.
We are just supposed to believe and have faith.
I am so pissed at God right now I can barely breathe.
Thank God for atheists.

Trailblazer said:

Admittedly, I judge God, but I know it is not my place to judge God. I also know it is irrational and illogical for humans to judge God, since I believe God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, so God has to know what He is doing. If God is also Benevolent, then the suffering has to be on our best interest, but this is what I have a problem with, because it does not make logical sense to me that a Benevolent God would create a world in which He knew there would be so much suffering..

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It is my place to judge everything and everyone, as it it also the place of every other thinking agent. If there were a god, I would judge it. Anyone who does not or cannot is not a moral being. Not necessarily immoral. But certainly amoral.

The thing that believers keep ignoring is that whenever they call their god 'good', that is also a judgement.

Trailblazer said:

For me the question is not why I think that God needed animals to suffer, even before humans existed, the question for me is why God allows animals to suffer at all... Nobody can use the original sin argument for this, as animals have no sin, they are completely innocent.

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I can only agree, if we are to believe in original sin as being true, fair enough if God don't like humans and "snakes", but what did the snails or mouse do?

Trailblazer said:

Then God sent His only Son to bail us sinful humans out, right?

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Well sending his son to bail us out and to get him nailed to a cross and tortured, for the sins he himself punished us with is a bit cowardly in my opinion. First of all, why does Jesus have to suffer at all? Why not simply remove the sins, if he can so easily put them on us to begin with?

Trailblazer said:

But how does that help the animals?

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No one have any answer for the animals, because they were given to man to rule over and after that they were just supposed to serve us, either by giving us cloth, meat, sacrificed or used as payment. Said in another way, they are not especially important for the story, so they never cared writing about them

Trailblazer said:

The Christians will have no answer, neither will the Baha'is.

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Well atheists don't have an answer either. We simply choose not to care about it, until a potential God give us a reason to

Joe W said:

It is my place to judge everything and everyone, as it it also the place of every other thinking agent. If there were a god, I would judge it. Anyone who does not or cannot is not a moral being. Not necessarily immoral. But certainly amoral.

The thing that believers keep ignoring is that whenever they call their god 'good', that is also a judgement.

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As I said, I believe it is wrong and I believe it is illogical to judge God...
When I say judging God I mean judging God as bad.
I also believe it is wrong to judge other people as bad...

Matthew 7:3-7 King James Version (KJV)

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I guess you and I are just very different, but I do not judge you for that.

Nimos said:

I can only agree, if we are to believe in original sin as being true, fair enough if God don't like humans and "snakes", but what did the snails or mouse do?

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Right, what did they do?

Nimos said:

Well sending his son to bail us out and to get him nailed to a cross and tortured, for the sins he himself punished us with is a bit cowardly in my opinion. First of all, why does Jesus have to suffer at all? Why not simply remove the sins, if he can so easily put them on us to begin with?

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As you might recall, I do not believe in original sin, but i do believe that Jesus died to as a ransom for our sin. However, I also believe that Jesus chose to die for us, God did not ask Him to. That is based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus.

Nimos said:

No one have any answer for the animals, because they were given to man to rule over and after that they were just supposed to serve us, either by giving us cloth, meat, sacrificed or used as payment. Said in another way, they are not especially important for the story, so they never cared writing about them

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That just pisses me off Nimos. Animals are here to serve us? No, animals were not very important in the Bible story and even less important in the Baha'i story. Then Jesus supposedly said that not a sparrow falls that God does not know about and care about, but it still falls.

Nimos said:

Well atheists don't have an answer either. We simply choose not to care about it, until a potential God give us a reason to

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Lucky you!

Trailblazer said:

“As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh

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Nostradamus, Bahaollah, prophets, Greek oracles, etc. do not write something which should have an exact meaning. That way they would be caught. So, they just wrote or said something absurd and the future readers are free to take any meaning that they want to take. Their writing is like an abstract painting, someone would say that it is a flower, others would say that it is a toilet pot.

Trailblazer said:

That just pisses me off Nimos. Animals are here to serve us?

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Well I didn't write the bible, obviously

Genesis 1:27-28
27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
28 - And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Nimos said:

Well I didn't write the bible, obviously

Genesis 1:27-28
27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
28 - And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

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I am not blaming you Nimos.

Trailblazer said:

As I said, I believe it is wrong and I believe it is illogical to judge God...

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I don't know what you mean by illogical? Do you just mean wrong?

Trailblazer said:

When I say judging God I mean judging God as bad.

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{shrug} Judging is judging. If one is not making an honest assessment, then what's the point? Evaluating the objects, subjects and events of the world in which we find ourselves is the bedrock of moral agency. Without it one is may as well be a doll with a string in your back; reciting what was recorded. Or worse.

Trailblazer said:

I guess you and I are just very different, but I do not judge you for that.

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Well, that's on you, and for you. It certainly is not for me. I don't value decisions where people choose to shun their personal responsibilities..

Nimos said:

You have probably told me, but might have forgotten.

If God created the Earth and everything one it. And humans didn't exists from the very beginning, I don't recall you believing that, but correct me if im wrong. So for a very long period of time in Earth history, animals of various types have suffered for one reason or another, like getting eaten, disease etc. Just as many humans experience.... now why do you think that God need animals to suffer, even before humans existed?

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Even Christians and Baha'is, I would think, believe that some peoples' concepts of God/Gods are totally made up and just their way of explaining the unknown and explaining why things are like they are. The ideas about God/Gods has evolved. Some Christians take the Creation story and say that there was no pain and suffering until Adam's fall. Baha'is, since they believe in some type of evolution, like you say, believe there was a time when humans, as we know them today, didn't exist. So why all the pain and suffering? The pre-humans were just like animals, so they didn't "sin", and can't be blamed for being the cause of their own suffering. So, it seems, this is what their concept of God wanted... a world of pain and suffering. Which seems completely random. Almost like there is no God.

So if there is such a God, then yes, I'd judge that God harshly. That God made a cruel world that has some beauty and some ugliness. Some good things and some very bad things. I watched a little of one of those "Shark" shows yesterday. It had a bull shark attacking miles upstream in freshwater river. Why did it attack and kill a particular kid and not one of the others? Why did the kids go swimming that day at that time? If this God is in control, then it's what this God wants to happen. Or, there is no God, and everything is totally random? But, because some of us think their must be a reason for why we are here, many of us need ours Gods and our religions. Even if they don't always make sense.

Trailblazer said:

When I say judging God I mean judging God as bad.
I also believe it is wrong to judge other people as bad...

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To an extent I agree, in that when I judge someone's actions - good or bad - I am not judging the entirety of their character. I cannot. But it is entirely appropriate - and sometimes mandatory - for me to judge their words and deeds and to act accordingly.

The words and deeds attributed to God in the Bible are largely worthy of my opprobrium and my wrath.

Trailblazer said:

Here's the thing... I do not believe that God is going to create a world of justice and peace, I believe humans will build that world. The unfairness of sickness, of poverty and of loneliness is partly because of human actions, but not all of it is because of human actions because not all sickness, of poverty and of loneliness is the result of human free will decisions.

The bottom line for me is that God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering so God is responsible for His Creation. Is not a builder responsible for the building He builds?

What I do not think can coexist is a Loving God when there is so much suffering in the world.

Click to expand...

A lot of people suffer through no fault of their own because of the decisions others make. This can teach us that what we do is not only for our personal benefit, but for the benefit of the whole community and for generations to come. A contrast is needed to be able to tell the difference. The suffering in the Animal Kingdom can teach us that we shouldn't live like animals. And I wouldn't worry too much about the animals suffering at the hands(or paws or fangs) of other animals. I believe they're psychologically fit to be able to deal with such harsh realities.

Judge God?
Why not? We created him, after all.