Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
How do two gay people make kids?
Yes hetrosexual people adobting children, but is it's a right thing to do?
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Are there questions God doesn't want you to ask?
- Thread starter amorphous_constellation
- Start date
Yes hetrosexual people adobting children, but is it's a right thing to do?
ecco
Veteran Member
- Because the people who wrote these stories preferred shepherds and goat herders over farmers. These battles still rage today.
- Because the people who wrote these stories believed sacrificing live animals was more powerful than offering up corn. That's been true throughout history. Some believed sacrificing humans was even more powerful and was/is practiced around the globe from China to Central America to Africa.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Even 2 hetero "don't make kids", they just have sex...all the rest is beyond their control (how to create one or twins, or arms, legs and baby-brain etc)
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
You know what i mean
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I sense that you disapprove (I could be wrong of course).
But if not then I wonder if such a question is the right/dharmic thing to ask
(As if there is 1 right thing in all the universes, for everyone in the past, present and future)
IMO:
IF you want to ask a question, why not keep it simple, asking for yourself saying "is it the right thing to do for me?"
At least you do not place a guilt bomb on all the people who adopted already a child or planning to do so
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I am only speaking for my self, not others
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Thank you. I never thought of that. But this really makes sense to me.
I was told that shephards in Jesus' day were quite rough people, but probably farmers too. So I wonder why they preferred shephards. I am from Holland, so goat cheese is one of my favorites, so that could be a reason
But esp. the second point seems valid to me. Written by humans who thought God was pleased with killing animals (they offered fat of firstlings)
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
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Piculet
Active Member
I don't speak the original language, but you "kind of" seem to "mistranslate" something there.
In case you're in doubt about the Bible's position on women, here's something to refreshen your memory.
The usual way, I thought you would understand that. But perhaps with other partners. Or, in some cases that I have known (back when being gay was scary), by living false lives with people they don't actually love, and eventually admitting the truth to themselves.
No, you're right. If kids are evil enough to get themselves orphaned, they should just be left to starve -- I guess.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
1. So you agree Gay people can not get children without help from someone else. Just making it clear that I have no problem with people being as gay as they want, that does not bother me. But they can not get kids on their own.
I do not say people should not help children from other fa!milies, but I do not think families where two people of same sex can give children same as parents of opposite sex.
Yes I know I am old fashion in my views.
Well, you said earlier that children NEED a mother and a father. But what if there's divorce? What if one dies? These things do happen. Will the "Church of Amanaki" say, "Sir, your children need a mother. If you cannot find one, the Church will provide one for you?" Most churches I know of would look rather askance at such a practice.
Look, what do you suggest for the man who married and had children, but found that he could no longer hide the fact that he is gay. And when that happens, the wife leaves him. I know people to whom that very thing has happened. So, since he is now alone and gay, and he finds a nice man who will love his children -- but since it's a man not a woman, would you deny that relationship? Would you forbid that man from adopting the first man's children? Would you have children sent away from their own father and into the home of strangers who just happen to be male and female?
I'd really like you to think about that.
And I'd like you to think about this, too. I never saw my father's face (until I saw a picture of him when I was 70 years old, and he had been 14 years dead). And my mother was too screwed up to care for me (and all the other children she had by various men). And nobody ever even thought of adopting me. Never. I had no experience any loving home, mother and father, somebody to help me negotiate life's difficulties, or help me go to college, or any of that. I can tell you this: If two men -- or two women -- had wanted to adopt and love me when I was a child, I would have sang praises to them for the rest of my life.
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Amanaki, the guy in the top left is my father at 18. The other 2 are me at 17. We never saw each other in our lives, but look how alike we are.
The Bible says God is all knowing. I don't know why all of a sudden I'm finding people who claim otherwise.
Job 37:16 "Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge,"
Psalm 139:2-4 "2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
you discern my thoughts from afar.
3 You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
4 Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether."
Isaiah 46:9-10
"9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’"
John 3:19-20
19 "By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything."
Knowing "everything", and 'knowing people's thoughts', does not indicate Jehovah knows what their future
actions will be.
In fact, in Genesis 18 20,21....it says,
"20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
Genesis 18:21 I will go down to see if their actions fully justify the outcry that has reached Me. If not, I will find out."
You see? God said He had to go check it out, so that He could know either way.
When Jehovah God gave His Law to the Israelites, He said this at Deuteronomy 30:19 NLT....
“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!
They had a choice, didn't they? And Jehovah wanted them to make those wise choices, didn't He? What was the outcome? Psalms 78:41 informs us....
"Again and again they tempted God, And pained the Holy One of Israel."
If God 'knew' this ahead of time, then is He a sado-masochist? No, of course not!
Jehovah, in His great wisdom, may know how certain choices will turn out, but He doesn't exactly know which individuals will make them. Even with Cain, He tried to get him to control himself. If God knew the course Cain would take, why would He even try to get Cain to think about it, to stop himself?
Take care, my cousin.
1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."
The problem, Piculet, is that you are taking one scripture at the expense of all scriptures. One deals with the marriage makeup and the other deals with spiritual makeups. And the scripture you are referencing is dealing with a custom that Corinthians had and not a general principle. 1 Corinthians deals with a church that had many issues of which chapter 11 deals with also.
If what you are declaring is true then these scriptures wouldn't exist (written by the same person):
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Here he says we are the same (and spiritually we are when we are ALL one in Christ Jesus)
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.
Notice the difference between spiritual and physical.
Christ is the head of the church (spiritual - we are all equal and all children of God)
In family - the man is the head of the household - physical.
1 Cor 7: 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife,
If the husband is not a believer, then the wife carries the spiritual blessing and leadership.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
God is the perfect Teacher, so it might be a lesson He is teaching us here, to "check things out, and not believe what others say blindly".
No, that is not what it says in the verse you gave. He does not claim here "I don't know", He just says:
"I will go down to see if their actions fully justify the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will find out"
But this does not imply, that He MUST go down, otherwise He won't know. That is just your interpretation.
I met a Master who loved to pretend to be ignorant. Only once I read in His books that He warned us that if God comes down to earth, He might act like normal people act, but don't let this fool you, thinking He does not know everything. This might apply here. The words are chosen very smart.
ecco
Veteran Member
.
So, you define "everything" as "Well, not really everything".
I should be used to it by now, but I'm always amazed at the mind-twisting some religious folks go through to try to justify their beliefs.
So, you define "everything" as "Well, not really everything".
I should be used to it by now, but I'm always amazed at the mind-twisting some religious folks go through to try to justify their beliefs.
Yes, questions we don't have intention to understand but the opposite, to seek to confuse ourselves with them. No question is bad in itself, but ask a bunch of questions you haven't even got the basics to solve and you will confused yourself and deviate.
God says in Quran, to ask the family of the reminder miracles and to seek clear proofs and insights from them, and to ask them when lost and don't know, but they have the right to not answer if they see the person is not sincere and seeking to confuse themselves and argue.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I don't mind discussing data papers, but to me it always seems a bit like citing a dictionary or something if it's cited as a whole. These things have to be discussed in detail, bit by bit. Are there specific statements in there that you wanted to analyze or explain, to help me see what you're getting at
So in other words, you have be sincerely curious or ignorant in order to ask things
I think with Islam and Judaism, my hunch is that these religions seek to answer more questions than Christianity. It seems like with the Quran and with the Jewish oral tradition, just going from what I anecdotally read about these, they seem to have content that address how we are supposed to live and think in finer detail. The cosmology and ontology seem fleshed out and ready to give you specific answers. With Christianity however, things seems a little more like they are left open-ended, or mystical, which maybe opened the door to sciences which tried to initially fill in gaps