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Some reasoning for my non-belief

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Buddhism to some extent but that isn't so much a religion
I'm glad you said that. If Siddy was alive today his job title would be therapist, which is probably why (essentially) Buddhist meditation is available on the National Health Service and recommended by NICE to combat depression. Of course, the fact that it is free is probably also a factor. :rolleyes:
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Well the paranormal would seemingly break some aspect of science and the aliens would just open up a whole bunch of things that hardly seem probable, unless they lived locally. And if that was the case I can't see why they wouldn't be living here on Earth - not such a bad place after all. For the paranormal, and similar related things, one either can believe, not believe, or have an open mind. For me, I haven't come across enough evidence to have the open mind, and I don't accept the word of others just because..
As I said to me the evidence for the paranormal is overwhelming and it is not a subject I can then ignore as the ramifications on reality are too dramatic.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
As I said to me the evidence for the paranormal is overwhelming and it is not a subject I can then ignore as the ramifications on reality are too dramatic.

Yes, I'm aware that might be the case for many others too. Like many things we come to an impasse with this.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Just curious, do you watch paranormal TV or read people’s stories on the internet and such.

No, but I have read about such elsewhere - not so much on the internet, and I'd take virtually anyone's claims with a pinch of salt to be honest.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
No, it was more about not believing what the religions were offering. I still have some doubts about some divine existence but I can't see a way to approach such without going through some religious process and I simply don't trust any of them (as to knowing any 'truths') - well perhaps Buddhism to some extent but that isn't so much a religion. And I feel no need either - seeing such as just a big unknown.
Millions of humans are finding ways of relating themselves to the God ideal without going through religion, so I don't see why you're having so much difficulty with it.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
And I take other people's claims seriously when there are enough of them.

I don't - no matter what the numbers - just as the numbers having religious beliefs doesn't influence my beliefs. You must know from being here on RF that many can push whatever agenda they like, and apparently expecting others to believe them, but just like anything coming from the mouth of any individual, much is only as valid as it reflects reality or can be backed up by evidence. The internet has given voice to so many who might never have had the opportunity before so it is not surprising forums are probably the last place to look for or see any factual stuff - apart from those that do lie within the bounds of reason. Of course I can't just dismiss what others experience but neither can I just accept what they say either, and the safest course is to acknowledge what they say but park it where it belongs - as being 'something that someone has offered as opinion or fact' - and I am not obliged to believe such.
 
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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Millions of humans are finding ways of relating themselves to the God ideal without going through religion, so I don't see why you're having so much difficulty with it.

I don't have issues with them - more the established main religions (and being monotheistic) that often do cause frictions and issues.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I don't have issues with them - more the established main religions (and being monotheistic) that often do cause frictions and issues.
But your dislike for how some other people misuse religion has nothing logically to do with the question of God's existence.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
But your dislike for how some other people misuse religion has nothing logically to do with the question of God's existence.

No, but all the propositions and arguments used by most of the religions do - which I do not accept - such that I am left with just the issue of what there is, and I admit to not knowing such (and no ability to know), hence my inclination to agnosticism.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
No, but all the propositions and arguments used by most of the religions do - which I do not accept - such that I am left with just the issue of what there is, and I admit to not knowing such (and no ability to know), hence my inclination to agnosticism.
As an agnostic, the issue then becomes a matter of faith rather than knowledge. But that was not your argument. Your argument was lack of knowledge that you presumed we should all have. To choose faith, I think, could only be determined by the resultant functional value to you. Not by the religiosity of others.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Millions of humans are finding ways of relating themselves to the God ideal without going through religion, so I don't see why you're having so much difficulty with it.

That's because religions turned many humans addicted to god concepts. Even when they turn away from the religions they were raised in, they just can't let it go.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I don't - no matter what the numbers - just as the numbers having religious beliefs doesn't influence my beliefs. You must know from being here on RF that many can push whatever agenda they like, and apparently expecting others to believe them, but just like anything coming from the mouth of any individual, much is only as valid as it reflects reality or can be backed up by evidence. The internet has given voice to so many who might never have had the opportunity before so it is not surprising forums are probably the last place to look for or see any factual stuff - apart from those that do lie within the bounds of reason. Of course I can't just dismiss what others experience but neither can I just accept what they say either, and the safest course is to acknowledge what they say but park it where it belongs - as being 'something that someone has offered as opinion or fact' - and I am not obliged to believe such.
And for me a huge body of cases analyzed for quantity. quality and consistency can influence my understanding of reality. I think processing data intelligently is an essential human reasoning skill.

I believe the paranormal is real beyond reasonable doubt. I conclude the likelihood that everything I've experienced, seen and heard can be put back inside my old atheist-materialism box is by now essentially zero. There is more to reality than the physical plane of our physical senses.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
That's because religions turned many humans addicted to god concepts. Even when they turn away from the religions they were raised in, they just can't let it go.
Like being "addicted" to food, water, and air. :)
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
As an agnostic, the issue then becomes a matter of faith rather than knowledge. But that was not your argument. Your argument was lack of knowledge that you presumed we should all have. To choose faith, I think, could only be determined by the resultant functional value to you. Not by the religiosity of others.

I don't know where you are at. I can dismiss all religious beliefs but still be left with a problem - which I admit I cannot solve - and which I believe the religious cannot either. They just think or presume to do so.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
And for me a huge body of cases analyzed for quantity. quality and consistency can influence my understanding of reality. I think processing data intelligently is an essential human reasoning skill.

I believe the paranormal is real beyond reasonable doubt. I conclude the likelihood that everything I've experienced, seen and heard can be put back inside my old atheist-materialism box is by now essentially zero. There is more to reality than the physical plane of our physical senses.

I can well understand, but until you can convince the larger body of scientific opinion, I will go with what is currently accepted.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I can well understand, but until you can convince the larger body of scientific opinion, I will go with what is currently accepted.
Very very few in science have any involvement or knowledge of the paranormal. It is not in their domain of study and consideration. Those that do are parapsychologists and they are generally believers. And you will find the full range of opinions among scientists as in other professions.

I am very interested in this subject so I make it my business to listen and consider everything from all sides.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Like being "addicted" to food, water, and air. :)

I find it sad that you see it this way.
But it comes to me as no surprise since any addicted person, no matter the addiction, would find it proper to compare their addiction to food, water and air.
 
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