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Should Child Marriages be Banned Worldwide?

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Are you sure about this, as I don't think that is true (unless things have changed) - it seemingly being between 17 and 18.

I was indeed wrong. I corrected myself in post 176. The stats are actually indeed more between 17-18 years for first vaginal intercourse and 15-16 years old for first sexual encounter.

Of course the age of consent in Canada is indeed 16 years and is also the current minimal age for mariages in the country. There are exceptions though for teenagers between 12 and 15. Due to a legal artefact, sodomie or anal penetration is only legal at age 18 though this is contested....

adendum, after checking it more thoroughly, the section that prohibited anal penetration before the age of 18 was finally officially removed in 2019 after being considred by various courts as unconstitutionals since the mid 90's.
 
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Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
It depends which way the whims of fashion take us.

How have the "whims of fashion" affected, say, the crime of murder?

"when a person, of sound memory and discretion, unlawfully kills any reasonable creature in being and under the king's peace, with malice aforethought, either express or implied" - this is taken from the eighteenth century Commentaries on the Laws of England. This strongly suggests, to me at least, that murder is not something subject to the "whims of fashion."
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Islam had it's own golden age, How about now? What happened?
Al Ghazali happened. I've posted this clip a few times but it's worth reposting ('till everybody gets it):


And, to make it back to the topic, the misogyny that is connected to child marriage holds back 50% of the population from being educated and contributing to the development of society.
 

Piculet

Active Member
And, to make it back to the topic, the misogyny that is connected to child marriage holds back 50% of the population from being educated and contributing to the development of society.
You make it sound like all the men are educated.
 

EsonauticSage

Between extremes
There was a time, yes, when Islam pretty much saved the knowledge of the classical world -- and we should all be very, very grateful for this.

But what you say is true -- for some reason, Islam stopped translating books from anywhere in the world into Arabic or the other languages of Islamic nations, apparently as if they had lost interest in any knowledge outside of that prescribed by the religion itself.

For the record, the Islam you see today took a long time to become that.
After Muhammad's time, the early Muslims for several hundred years had a strong debate culture, strong philosophical and astronomical mindset. This is from the Qur'an itself btw, which was the root of that mindset.
Anyway, as Muslims started spreading they started coming in contact with philosophers before their time and seeing how strongly it resonated with the views they had already. From a natural love of knowledge innate in the Islamic mindset, they took up quite a lot of scholarly effort into preserving prior knowledge. All at the same time as their own intellectuals had, since the family of Prophet Muhammad (Ahlulbayt) been contributing to it themselves.

Islam as a collective (but it isn't and never has been monolithic) went through several reforms. The most dreadful and damning of them was when the Ottoman Empire sprung up because they gradually put an end to the almost Faustian spirit of Islam prior. Eventually the Ottomans pulled Islam down into a place it had never been before, particularly later in their reign. As the Ottomans fell apart and degenerated, Islamic civilization was exposed and vulnerable, the Saudi royal family is one clear example of this happening in the replacement scheme.
Due to political and social issues, the mainstream of various Islamic societies started driving towards illiteracy and fundamentalism to replace the philosophical, scientific and mystical mindset it once had.
It's only got worse since then.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
How have the "whims of fashion" affected, say, the crime of murder?

"when a person, of sound memory and discretion, unlawfully kills any reasonable creature in being and under the king's peace, with malice aforethought, either express or implied" - this is taken from the eighteenth century Commentaries on the Laws of England. This strongly suggests, to me at least, that murder is not something subject to the "whims of fashion."

No... not all acts will be acceptable. But murder aint what murder used to be --- it attracted
the death penalty once. Now you might get 5 - 10 years and get out on half your sentence.
Meanwhile murder as entertainment continues unabated.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
This is a clear example of bringing your own cultural expectations of the table and then measuring all cultures worldwide by your particular yardstick. That's not fair, and not your (or my) call... especially when the precise nature of what marriage is varies across cultures (and historical eras) too. But sure, let's ban something from every human on the planet based on some arbitrary age that involves some arbitrary contractual agreement for some particular sort of relationship whose nature varies by culture. Even if this was a good idea, it's not even possible to do it.
No I’m talking about science. Scientific studies (multiple) have long said that the power dynamics between people of various ages are potentially dangerous and abusive by default: The same studies that have confirmed that teachers having sex with students show a clear power differential which can be detrimental and even be considered as statutory rape under the law.

My culture actually waves away child marriage as something normal.
Something which I reject as immoral.
So nice try. I reject something from my own cultural background as abhorrent. Am I racist against myself?
No I listen to the science.

The Effect of Power in Sexual Relationships on Sexual and Reproductive Health: An Examination of the Evidence on JSTOR
Introduction to Navigating Power Dynamics | DanceSafe

Besides are you seriously defending like a 10 year old girl marrying a 50 year old man just because she menstruates? Really?
This cowardly hiding behind cultural norms is abhorrent to me. Justifying abuse that is disgusting. I will admit to being emotional, but I will not allow my culture to foster child sexual abuse. I cannot abide such depravity, if you like. Screw that. I refuse to be the whipping boy for child marriage in the West.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
And that isn't because you've been influenced by other cultures and media etc., but because you're just so smart?
No I listen to science. An academic discipline known for being objective and fair.
Unless you reject science as a whole?
 

Piculet

Active Member
No I listen to science. An academic discipline known for being objective and fair.
Unless you reject science as a whole?
I don't reject science. I take God's word before the word of a scientist. Then there are of course many many scientists in the world and they don't always agree with each other.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
That's a good point. People literally watch fake murder (horror, even action movies) for entertainment. What a freakin world we live in.
We do it as a form of emotional housekeeping. By living out our murderous tendencies in movies and games, we get it out of our system and don't have to carry it with us in the real world. (Most of us, there are exceptions.)
Murder and violent crime is on the decline where murderous and violent fantasies are available.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I take God's word before the word of a scientist.

Much of your life that we all take for granted has its basis in science. The modern world would not exist without the advances of science.

Then there are of course many many scientists in the world and they don't always agree with each other.

Of course they don't but neither do all the gods in the world . But science advances on the consensus of the global scientific community, a consensus derived from experimentaion, research, observation and intellectual rigour.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
We do it as a form of emotional housekeeping. By living out our murderous tendencies in movies and games, we get it out of our system and don't have to carry it with us in the real world. (Most of us, there are exceptions.)
Murder and violent crime is on the decline where murderous and violent fantasies are available.
I'm watching Cardinal not to live out my murderous tendencies but because Lise Delorme is a minx. :hearteyes:
 

Piculet

Active Member
We do it as a form of emotional housekeeping. By living out our murderous tendencies in movies and games, we get it out of our system and don't have to carry it with us in the real world. (Most of us, there are exceptions.)
Murder and violent crime is on the decline where murderous and violent fantasies are available.
Evidence? :rolleyes:
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
No I’m talking about science. Scientific studies (multiple) have long said that the power dynamics between people of various ages...

I'm just going to stop right here. It really is impossible for some people to discuss this topic without bringing superfluous issues onto the scene. "Various ages?" What part of marrying under the age of 18 necessitates "various ages?"

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

But sure, if we're going to bring in nonsensical and superfluous issues, let's talk about domestic abuse and use that to make a case for outlawing all marriage. Because just like child marriages apparently require people between various ages, marriages apparently require some sort of domestic abuse. For reasons.
 
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