nPeace
Veteran Member
In a world where anything goes... that's not "politically incorrect", what's left to decide.
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Man to Man... or Woman
- Thread starter nPeace
- Start date
Yes, but from where do the authors of those books take their information? They ultimately both have to go back to asking the individuals in the group concerned, so I don't see a difference.
nPeace
Veteran Member
No.
Do you think a doctor has to ask you why there may be blood in your urine, or do you think they asked people before them?
Evidently, you are not getting it, Rival. I think that's due to where you choose to focus.
Apparently, you are looking at things, only from one perspective, and direction.
I am just waiting until @Unveiled Artist artist responds, before I cover your question, since I want them to follow, and not question me on things I have already answered.
Yes? I should think he or she would ask about diet, possible infections and so on, surely?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
?
?
Is this a "Yes, I got it"? ?
They... referring to whom?
Ah. I now connected the dots. I think you just took one thing I said, and assumed it was a counter argument, to something particular, you had in mind.
You are indeed getting mixed up, and moreover, it is leading you to ask me questions that are equivalent to.... "Um. What is grass to you? Do you know the difference between grass and trees?"
There is nothing special about this question. It's not like the Bible, you know.
So is it safe to say, you do not know what I have been saying all the while?
I do believe what they said.
Does that mean that because you have not heard it, and do not give it the slightest consideration, that I must believe it based on cultural bias?
Ha Ha
Maybe you can explain again why you recommended getting insight from transgender, then let me show you the comparison... if you really don't see it.
I could sum everything up for you, if you are still in the dark about the issue, if @Rival is still interested in the question he asked earlier.
Did I forget about you?
Got your ping.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Ha Ha. Funny.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I don't know. You tell me. LOL.
?
They do.
A medical professional can't diagnose you unless he or she knows your lifestyle, in many cases. The reasons for a symptom can be many. I recently recieved a letter asking me about having a cervical screening and they ask you if you're sexually active as it's highly unlikely that you will have the issue they're looking for if you're not. They're also going to need to know about any previous cervical problems. Only you know these things.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Is your favorite group One Direction, by any chance? Lol
I know when to stop Rival, and I stopped.
I really don't understand your last post though.Is your favorite group One Direction, by any chance? Lol
I know when to stop Rival, and I stopped.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I guess I did forget. I told myself I'll get back. I need to stop doing that. My memory is shot.
I was asking "But regarding my question, how does this weaken the argument that some people do benefit from transitioning and other people do not? (655)" and you asked if I had received the answer or not (656).
If I remember, you said to Rival that many people who say they are transgender get surgery and then they decide to detransition. The majority of time, though, do not detransition since surgery is meant to medically relieve symptoms of an illness rather than something someone just chooses just because. I mean, to some extent I like the way I look but who would just go and take off their breasts and reset themselves just because of a "feeling." Doctors would Not go with that unless there is an underlining illness behind it. That. And it would be heavily expensive. It's not a moral issue but a medical one. People who transition do have better mental and physical lives. I read you mentioned feelings aren't enough (shortened). People have feelings because of the things they experience. For example, chronic depression is high among transgender. Without transition (and yes there are other options-that doesn't weaken that some benefit from some options than others) they'd be more at risk of suicide etc.
Now maybe you disagree with it, but morality aside, what are the drawbacks (stats?) that outweigh the benefits in people who transition?
Also, do you take into account transgenders point of view?
When doctors treat patients they don't just go to the books but also talk with the patients they see.
The "weakened" argument? By definition, though, when you oppose the other person's statement it is usually a counter argument unless you two agree with each other.
...but you'd have to remind me where the dots are.
"From what I read, they were saying that surgery treatment for dysphoria is a well worth treatment and option for many transgender. You mentioned there were failure rates. Assuming that's your counter argument, how does the failure rates (or lead to death?) of treatment weaken the argument that for many transgender, surgery is the best option for their mental health condition?" (656)
What did you mean?
I do. I just caught some things you were talking to Rival about since it startled me.
We all have cultural biases, though. Using the bible as criteria for medical advice and morality is highly biased in itself.
Brief example: take homosexuality. The bible does mention it but your bias towards sexual orientation doesn't come from medical books but from the bible. So, they are strictly different.
Back to the topic: but since transgender isn't in the bible, I'm puzzled why it would be morally wrong to transition for medical reasons.
Couple reasons such as transgender usually detransition seems to be one reason but I don't know how that can be a reason. I know you mentioned others but they probably weren't addressed to me.
This is odd. If you were a doctor and wanted to gain insight in what people with seizures go through to treat them, you'd ask the person who has seizures. Likewise with therapy and likewise with 99% of doctor/patient treatment.
Likewise with lay people. If they want to be empathetic and understand other people, they need to get insight from their point of view not judge them based on ours. It's a huge tenant of empathy, compassion, and humility.
I haven't talked with anyone who doesn't share gaining insight from others will improve one's own point of view and relationship with others. Maybe (hopefully?) I'm reading you wrong?
Is this a "Yes, I got it"? ?
I was asking "But regarding my question, how does this weaken the argument that some people do benefit from transitioning and other people do not? (655)" and you asked if I had received the answer or not (656).
If I remember, you said to Rival that many people who say they are transgender get surgery and then they decide to detransition. The majority of time, though, do not detransition since surgery is meant to medically relieve symptoms of an illness rather than something someone just chooses just because. I mean, to some extent I like the way I look but who would just go and take off their breasts and reset themselves just because of a "feeling." Doctors would Not go with that unless there is an underlining illness behind it. That. And it would be heavily expensive. It's not a moral issue but a medical one. People who transition do have better mental and physical lives. I read you mentioned feelings aren't enough (shortened). People have feelings because of the things they experience. For example, chronic depression is high among transgender. Without transition (and yes there are other options-that doesn't weaken that some benefit from some options than others) they'd be more at risk of suicide etc.
Now maybe you disagree with it, but morality aside, what are the drawbacks (stats?) that outweigh the benefits in people who transition?
Also, do you take into account transgenders point of view?
When doctors treat patients they don't just go to the books but also talk with the patients they see.
The "weakened" argument? By definition, though, when you oppose the other person's statement it is usually a counter argument unless you two agree with each other.
...but you'd have to remind me where the dots are.
"From what I read, they were saying that surgery treatment for dysphoria is a well worth treatment and option for many transgender. You mentioned there were failure rates. Assuming that's your counter argument, how does the failure rates (or lead to death?) of treatment weaken the argument that for many transgender, surgery is the best option for their mental health condition?" (656)
What did you mean?
I do. I just caught some things you were talking to Rival about since it startled me.
We all have cultural biases, though. Using the bible as criteria for medical advice and morality is highly biased in itself.
Brief example: take homosexuality. The bible does mention it but your bias towards sexual orientation doesn't come from medical books but from the bible. So, they are strictly different.
Back to the topic: but since transgender isn't in the bible, I'm puzzled why it would be morally wrong to transition for medical reasons.
Couple reasons such as transgender usually detransition seems to be one reason but I don't know how that can be a reason. I know you mentioned others but they probably weren't addressed to me.
This is odd. If you were a doctor and wanted to gain insight in what people with seizures go through to treat them, you'd ask the person who has seizures. Likewise with therapy and likewise with 99% of doctor/patient treatment.
Likewise with lay people. If they want to be empathetic and understand other people, they need to get insight from their point of view not judge them based on ours. It's a huge tenant of empathy, compassion, and humility.
I haven't talked with anyone who doesn't share gaining insight from others will improve one's own point of view and relationship with others. Maybe (hopefully?) I'm reading you wrong?
Tambourine
Well-Known Member
Yes, absolutely.
Why wouldn't it be okay for me? It does not affect me negatively, in any way or form.
Piculet
Active Member
If you have a problem with your new car and it has been manufactured in your city, would you rather take it to someone who drives the same car or to the manufacturer who made it?
nPeace
Veteran Member
That's understandable.
Do you think we can "blame" genetics on how we think and view things?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It's more, if you have a broken car and wanted again another opinion you value, you may ask a friend who went through the same thing. That friend may give you some insight while at the same time you go to a manufacturer who made it.
We ask and gain insight from other people all the time. RF is a good example. Ideally, the clause is "we're not medical and legal professionals" for liability issues, but it's good to gain insight from other people nonetheless.
You guys don't believe in empathy?
nPeace
Veteran Member
I understand this is what some people think - "It does not affect me negatively, in any way or form."
Do you agree this is a subjective opinion, that is not necessarily true?
That's a good one.
I don't know. I'm aware that male and female brains work and think differently. Is genetics responsible for that? I'm not sure.
Piculet
Active Member
I'm thinking more like, God made us and if He forbids you from "becoming a female/male" or from having homosexual sex or from dressing in the manner of the opposite sex, He knows best why He commands so, so there is no need to go ask homosexuals and transgender people how they feel. It doesn't affect God's commands as we have them.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Take care, nPeace.LOL. You said it.
I'll get back to you later, on the rest. I got to go.